I Wear Pants;1488830 wrote:It might shock you but papers and news networks can employee people of more than one political persuasion.

But I wasn't really concerned with the article. I was talking more broadly. You all hate the ACA and want it gone but never specify what you'd do to fix our healthcare system. ("Open it up across state lines" does not count as a solution. That's been done before).

Besides the cost (and that can be a different discussion altogether), what is wrong witht he healthcare system we already had?

I say besides the cost because the ACA actually made that worse, so it can't be used as a reason for it.

gut;1486501 wrote: Again, you may believe that but your posts betray you. I've rarely seen you criticize Obama without making qualifications and exceptions. At best it's a backhanded criticism, a technique used by people who want to appear objective but are actually attempting to shift blame and accountability to other parties..

Again. It isn't difficult to understand. Obama is a bad president but he is not the evil-doer the conservative paranoid style makes him out to be. I believe Obama is worthy of criticism but there is little point to jumping in on the full fledged, end-of-the-world, worst-president ever criticisms on this board where I am the only one who routinely posts that is to the left of the political spectrum. If there were a full fledged Obama butt-humper who made the same arguments on here as Obama does in public, I would debate him just as much as I debate you.

If someone were on here saying we need to raise taxes on the rich right now to close the deficit I would disagree whole-heartedly. The only posters we get here economics-wise are well to the right of Bowles-Simpson style centrism.

majorspark;1486653 wrote:. Boat if you and Obama sat down over a couple of beers and had an ideological heart to heart you would want to hump his leg before the conversation was over.

I actually disagree...on economics issues at least. When you hear some of the things that his advisers say, you see the people he's appointed (Jeremy "Bubble-Popping" Stein) where he wouldn't face ideological resistance etc., he doesn't seem to be on the same page. I honestly think he was being sincere on the wrongness of national debt and that it kills him inside to have the deficit sky-rocket under his watch....but I think he thinks it was primarily because of the bad economy and if he can just see the economy get better and raise taxes on the rich and cut a "grand bargain" it'll get better and to a more palatable level.

At best he's way more conservative ideologically than he let on or that liberals were willing to believe...at worst he's a passion-free fraud fully on the political expediancy train.


I.E. If I sat down and had a beer with him and said "The deficit is neither bad nor good Barack...it just is what it is...you need to focus on the real economy and either cut taxes low enough or increase spending high enough or some combination thereof until the economy gets to full employment and stop worrying about the number accumulating in Fed Securities accounts."

I think he would disagree and give me some rant about how we need to have a balanced approach to keep liberal priorities while also get debt under control so our businesses are confident, etc.


^^^still doesn't make him the horrificly incompetent manager, pathetic leader, anti-american, constitutional usurper that conservatives make him out to be on a daily basis.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/08/18/results-of-obamas-own-cdc-study-on-guns-support-other-side-81812

Can't find the actual report. But anyone that isn't a retard could figure out that gun laws wouldn't minimize gun deaths. Since by definition, criminals to not follow laws. Good work, Obama.

WTF is Obama honoring the '72 Dolphins? Does he really not have anything better to do? Is he possibly actually running out of celebs and athletes that he hasn't hung out with yet? Or do you think this is tied-in to his ridiculous effort to recruit the NFL to help sell Obamakare?

More good news on Obamacare:

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_atlanta+%28Atlanta+Business+Chronicle%29

This is going to be a very bumpy ride.

Manhattan Buckeye;1489366 wrote:More good news on Obamacare:

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_atlanta+(Atlanta+Business+Chronicle)

This is going to be a very bumpy ride.

But Obama promised we could keep our current insurance and our doctors!

http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/obamas-brother-linked-to-muslim-brotherhood/


imagine that

This fucking Bradley Manning is like straight out of central casting when it comes to everything the left hopes for in an American hero.

First he hated America and thought it was evil (a key tenant of liberalism) so he personally decided to leak thousands of classified documents to try and show everyone.

Now that he is being held to account for his crimes, this sick fuck now wants to begin living as a woman named Chelsea.

Just when I thought the left couldn't have been anymore in love they find out he is a tranny. They are over the freaking moon right now with "Free Chelsea" posts all over the liberal blogs.

They are obsessed with and love all things LGBT, so throw in the fact that he hates his country as well and he is literally the poster child for everything the modern day Progressive could hope for to symbolically represent their cause.

The calls for Obama to pardon him among his base were already loud, and with today's revaltion they are going to reach a fever pitch.

It will be a very sad historical footnote on Obama's legacy if he pardon's this guy while he is walking out the door. The idea of rewarding someone who hates this country like Manning with a pardon is sickening.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2399612/Feds-building-detective-squad-target-consumers-companies-dont-follow-Obamacare.html


we have elected the enemy

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/22/dhs-employee-spends-spare-time-promoting-race-war-against-whites/?test=latestnews
Would you be allowed to work in your job if this was what you espoused online?

REPORT: Health Care Premiums Climbed $2,976 Since 2009...

Incomes Drop Twice as Much During 'Recovery' as Recession...



change we can believe in ...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/23/delta-warns-obamacare-will-drive-100-million-spike-in-health-care-costs/?test=latestnews OBamacaaaaare

Obama: No Allegations NSA Is Trying to 'Listen in On People's Email'...

'Inadvertently, Accidentally' Pulled Emails of Americans...




change we can believe in ...

Not content with healthcare, now the Great Divider is going after education.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-to-propose-college-ranking-system-that-could-increase-affordability/2013/08/22/73e674c0-0b17-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html

Righttttt.... a government rating (approval) system.:thumbdown::mad:

HitsRus;1490568 wrote:Not content with healthcare, now the Great Divider is going after education.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-to-propose-college-ranking-system-that-could-increase-affordability/2013/08/22/73e674c0-0b17-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html

I thought about making this a separate thread. There are some good ideas in there (that seem very unlikely to actually find its way into legislation - "pay attention to what I say, not what I do"). There's a whole lot of redundancy and govt trying to reinvent the wheel - a lot of his proposed "grading" system is already reported and published, albeit self-reported which is where the problems lay.

Main problem I see is this isn't going to save the idiot who wants to drop $200k on an art history major from Columbia. You want prices to go down then simply get the gubmit out of the student loan business. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the colleges are capturing probably all of the subsidy. You're writing blank checks to people who haven't learned fiscal responsibility (probably including the 18-yr olds AND their parents) and who appear incapable of doing a proper ROI analysis.

And it's part a cultural distortion. We are constantly telling people "go to the best school you can" and "study what you love". Reality is that don't pay the bills. Thumbs up to the future engineer that goes to MIT...Thumbs down to the future 3rd grade teacher that studies education at Yale.

Don't get me started on schools with massive endowments that still get federal loan subsidies/grants/etc..

• VIDEO: Delta Sounding the Alarm Over ObamaCare Costs
• OPINION: Time for GOP to Deliver a Crushing Blow to ObamaCare
• FOX NEWS FIRST: More Benefit Cuts Under ObamaCare

Face it, America wants nationalized healthcare. If the Repubs were smart, they'd be pushing to delay and fix rather than block. Instead of driving a wedge issue, they could take the high road and actually pick-up a bunch of votes.

"Face it, America wants nationalized healthcare."

I'd position it as follows. America thinks it wants nationalized healthcare due to propaganda that it "works" in other countries. The reality is that in these countries tax rates are through the roof (even at the lower and middle classes) and the healthcare is what you would expect from a government bureaucracy. Poor and slow. And these countries aren't nearly as large and diverse as the U.S.

Manhattan Buckeye;1490685 wrote:"Face it, America wants nationalized healthcare."

I'd position it as follows. America thinks it wants nationalized healthcare due to propaganda that it "works" in other countries. The reality is that in these countries tax rates are through the roof (even at the lower and middle classes) and the healthcare is what you would expect from a government bureaucracy. Poor and slow. And these countries aren't nearly as large and diverse as the U.S.

All true. However, I fail to see how you've contradicted my point that "America wants healthcare". Is ignorance the downfall of a democracy? Sure, I'm on board...But the fact is you have to work with what people want. Shaping what people want takes time (which is something liberals have kind of owned the past 20-30 years)

New Policy Warns Border Agents Not to Detain Illegal Immigrant Parents of Minor Children...

gut;1490656 wrote:Face it, America wants nationalized healthcare. If the Repubs were smart, they'd be pushing to delay and fix rather than block. Instead of driving a wedge issue, they could take the high road and actually pick-up a bunch of votes.

Agreed. I never got the defund and kill it, but offer no actual fixes.

The system is a mess, both on the insurance side and provider side (Docs, hospitals, etc.).
And reform is needed on all those parts. Why not get together and offer a reasonable fix, working with the private sector, you know PPP, private-public partnerships, where the private sector can help, with the R's pushing things along.

As Quaker so accurately states, "We have elected the enemy" - http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/23/defense-department-guide-calls-founding-fathers-extremist/

The take-home:

In a statement, Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton slammed the Department of Defense documents for what he described as their bias against conservatives.“The Obama administration has a nasty habit of equating basic conservative values with terrorism. And now, in a document full of claptrap, its Defense Department suggests that the Founding Fathers, and many conservative Americans, would not be welcome in today’s military,” said Fitton. ”And it is striking that some the language in this new document echoes the IRS targeting language of conservative and Tea Party investigations. After reviewing this document, one can’t help but worry for the future and morale of our nation’s armed forces.”

ptown_trojans_1;1490728 wrote:Agreed. I never got the defund and kill it, but offer no actual fixes.

Never got it, eh? Have you read any polls since the ACA was passed without reading it? Do you know that a large majority of American citizens do not want it and it was crammed down our throats without 1 single vote from the other side? It wreaks. It stinks. Until a couple days before the SCOTUS ruling, it was going to be unconstitutional. Then Justice Roberts decided that laws passed without one Republican vote were indeed laws passed by a duly-elected Congress and he wasn't going to get in the way. Ball-less turd he became. But I digress.

The defund and kill it team is getting increasing support because the majority of Americans DO NOT WANT THIS POS LAW. That's why no fixes need offered. We need to erase the mistake and start over.

I think a majority of Americans want 'free' healthcare....which is a completely different issue than whether we should provide it or not. While I realize ObamaKare is not 'free', I think there is a perception among less knowledgable people that the government is footing a large part of it.

Even people who should know better, have a mindset programmed to base their healthcare decsions on what their insurance covers, rather than what's in their best interest. I see this everyday as a healthcare provider. Healthcare decisions are based on whether deductibles have been reached, maximums have been met or whether a given procedure is a covered item. Necessary treatments are delayed or foregone or altered to fit into coverage. If you think about it, we have been bombarded for 20 + years by the arguement (since Hilary started jawboning about it) that someone else should be responsible for paying for Americans' healthcare. An entire generation has grown up with this. Is it any wonder that they are willing to let the wolf into the house. Is it any wonder that it should be the 'benevolent' government?