BoatShoes;1481987 wrote:That, in conjunction with the payroll tax raise are predominantly the reasons why the economy is sucking.

Yeah, that's the reason. The economy would just be humming along otherwise. LMFAO

ptown_trojans_1;1482007 wrote: Companies braced well for the FY13 cuts, but longer than that you will see more of the impact.

No you won't. First, the spending "cut" is not really a fair representation, as has been discussed numerous times. Second, it's too trivial an amount to matter, even with the administration doing its best to make the cuts as "painful" as possible. You and Boatshoes are like Homer - "wait for it....wait for it....wait for it". Eventually we'll have another cyclical recession and then you can claim you were right all along.

Economists will whip out their fuzzy math and multipliers to interpolate an impact, but reality is the economy is pretty much the same now as it has been for the past 3 years.

gut;1482019 wrote:No you won't. First, the spending "cut" is not really a fair representation, as has been discussed numerous times. Second, it's too trivial an amount to matter, even with the administration doing its best to make the cuts as "painful" as possible. You and Boatshoes are like Homer - "wait for it....wait for it....wait for it". Eventually we'll have another cyclical recession and then you can claim you were right all along.

Economists will whip out their fuzzy math and multipliers to interpolate an impact, but reality is the economy is pretty much the same now as it has been for the past 3 years.

I see very little (with the exception of some Fed gubmint reports claiming otherwise :rolleyes: ) that demonstrates that this economy is in rebound.

Case-in-point: Our own company is in layoff mode right now. Hell, we're laying off hourly employees who have seen an unemployment check in 15 years.

Every time I hear the complicit Obama-loving media spew the approved "it just needed 5 years to kick-in but see things are gettin' betta" line my head spins.

Truth is that this economy, if not in decline, is at best in a stagnation. Apparently stagnant = "boom times" for some folks.

gut;1482019 wrote:Economists will whip out their fuzzy math and multipliers to interpolate an impact, but reality is the economy is pretty much the same now as it has been for the past 3 years.

I see very little (with the exception of some Fed gubmint reports claiming otherwise :rolleyes: ) that demonstrates that this economy is in rebound.

Case-in-point: Our own company is in layoff mode right now. Hell, we're laying off hourly employees who have seen an unemployment check in 15 years.

Every time I hear the complicit Obama-loving media spew the approved "it just needed 5 years to kick-in but see things are gettin' betta" line my head spins.

Truth is that this economy, if not in decline, is at best in stagnation. Apparently stagnant = "boom times" for some folks.

ptown_trojans_1;1482007 wrote:So far, as the cuts area only in place for May to September. Whereas the cuts to FY14 impact the whole FY, so they will have more of an impact.

Wow. There are NO cuts !!!!!!!! Zero, Nada, Zilch ......... what is so hard to understand about that.

believer;1482008 wrote:Anyone right of Barry H. Soetoro is a hardcore conservative to liberals like you.

Incorrect. Obama is a moderate liberal at best. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders would be examples of pretty hardcore liberals well to the left of Obama. There are some moderate conservatives around...Steve LaTourette was a good example before he retired but there are few and far between these days. Boehner and Cantor and Mitch McConnell are all pretty conservative...Dick Lugar was a lifelong strong conservative....but none of these guys are "conservative" in the minds of today's tea partiers. That doesn't mean they're anywhere close to democrat-lite. It'd be like me saying Obama, Bill Clinton and other moderate liberals are just "republicans-lite". Obviously you would dispute that. Just because they aren't as hardcore as Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich doesn't mean they're conservative/republicans by any stretch of the imagination.

believer;1482026 wrote:I see very little (with the exception of some Fed gubmint reports claiming otherwise :rolleyes: ) that demonstrates that this economy is in rebound.

Case-in-point: Our own company is in layoff mode right now. Hell, we're laying off hourly employees who have seen an unemployment check in 15 years.

Every time I hear the complicit Obama-loving media spew the approved "it just needed 5 years to kick-in but see things are gettin' betta" line my head spins.

Truth is that this economy, if not in decline, is at best in stagnation. Apparently stagnant = "boom times" for some folks.

You're right. The economy is still in stagnation and is getting worse. The question is why? It is because we think it is a good idea to take more money out of the private economy with spending cuts and tax raises.

QuakerOats;1482428 wrote:Wow. There are NO cuts !!!!!!!! Zero, Nada, Zilch ......... what is so hard to understand about that.

More and more members of the Republican caucus don't see it this way...

gut;1482017 wrote:Yeah, that's the reason. The economy would just be humming along otherwise. LMFAO

Probably not humming along as the deficit probably still wouldn't be large enough. Now, a Full payroll tax cut...with the average working family taking home something north of $500 extra bucks per month...that would have a solid impact on aggregate demand and get us moving toward full employment.

But I suppose we'd be doing even better if we had a balanced budget with even less dollars being put into the private sector.....

Manhattan Buckeye;1481950 wrote:You forgot Chris Christie.

I am not bullish on America's future. We are easily looking at US$22T of debt before Obama's term is up, and likely another US$10T if Hillary! wins.

I didn't agree with many of Mitt Romney's positions, but his comment about the 47% might prove to be understated.

People being worried about outstanding treasury securities is cray. Right now the FED pays interest on dollars held in both Securities Accounts (what we call the "national debt") and in Reserve Accounts. They are functionally the same and yet the FED has no problem debiting the Securities Accounts and crediting the Reserve Accounts all the time (Quantitative Easing). Nobody ever imagines that the FED can't make the interest payments on Reserves that it now pays. It's not even a question. So why is everyone worried about interest payments on securities accounts???

The "National Debt" is just a holdover from the Gold Standard. The reason we even make a distinction was because in 1933, the dollars held in Reserve Accounts had to be converted into Gold on Demand. That isn't the world we're living in anymore.

We could eliminate treasury securities and just have the FED offer C.D.'s or something whenever it wanted and it'd be functionally the same.

QuakerOats;1482428 wrote:Wow. There are NO cuts !!!!!!!! Zero, Nada, Zilch ......... what is so hard to understand about that.

Because there were furloughs, which impact existing work. Furloughs are like cuts because, instead of doing work in 5 days, it now gets done in 4, 3 in some offices. And, workers cannot work over 8-9 hours each day.
And yes, programs have been cut, delayed. Things that were budgeted for FY13, especially in the Defense side, have been canceled or delayed. (Mainly on the IT, Professional Services, and Construction side).
Not sure what you are reading, but I see the "cuts" and furloughs daily.

ptown_trojans_1;1482516 wrote:Because there were furloughs, which impact existing work. Furloughs are like cuts because, instead of doing work in 5 days, it now gets done in 4, 3 in some offices. And, workers cannot work over 8-9 hours each day.
And yes, programs have been cut, delayed. Things that were budgeted for FY13, especially in the Defense side, have been canceled or delayed. (Mainly on the IT, Professional Services, and Construction side).
Not sure what you are reading, but I see the "cuts" and furloughs daily.

Welcome to the real world federal government employee, departments..... Private business and their employees have had hours cut, laid-off, and or fired, business on the edge of closing and some shut down completely. Thanks to the ideology of government and politicians clueless of what it takes to run, operate and maintain a small company in the economy they are creating. Government and politicians have no idea of what a small business needs into today market or what it takes to be an entrepreneur.

Feel the pinch federal government, that the same pinch we private business owners and their employees know to well thanks to those who support this administration and the idealogy of Obama.

Belly35;1482519 wrote:Welcome to the real world federal government employee, departments..... Private business and their employees have had hours cut, laid-off, and or fired, business on the edge of closing and some shut down completely. Thanks to the ideology of government and politicians clueless of what it takes to run, operate and maintain a small company in the economy they are creating. Government and politicians have no idea of what a small business needs into today market or what it takes to be an entrepreneur.

Feel the pinch federal government, that the same pinch we private business owners and their employees know to well thanks to those who support this administration and the idealogy of Obama.

Sure, just expect delays and cost overruns on services in the future.
Government operates under a different budget structure than the private sector. Trying to equate the two doesn't make sense.
And, more to your point, how can the Government address small business needs when it cutting the SBA? In addition, with the furlough days, it is delaying existing and future contracts payments and awards. So, that drives up the price or delays the contract, forcing the contractor to suffer.
Or, instead of awarding the contract to a small business, the Government, with lack of time before the end of the fiscal year, gives the award to a large business because they can do the work, not having the time to fully ID the small business or run that procurement process.

I see it every day. Small businesses are getting killed out of these cuts.

Two recent articles on further cuts:
One on the F-35, which I agree needs drastic cuts and restructuring. I doubt it goes totally away, but no way do we buy as many:
http://www.defencetalk.com/pentagon-considers-cancelling-f-35-program-48653/

Second has to do with further Army cuts:
http://www.defencetalk.com/us-could-reduce-army-by-further-15-percent-hagel-48651/

May say, that's good, and in some sense it is. But, that means bases will close, meaning the support services for those bases will end. Meaning, lots of lost jobs and services that support those bases.
Maybe those things are long overdue, but if anyone remembers the big BRACs of the 90s, it is looking like that again.
Just things that are coming up with the cuts on the DOD side.

ptown_trojans_1;1482526 wrote:Sure, just expect delays and cost overruns on services in the future.
Government operates under a different budget structure than the private sector. Trying to equate the two doesn't make sense.
And, more to your point, how can the Government address small business needs when it cutting the SBA? In addition, with the furlough days, it is delaying existing and future contracts payments and awards. So, that drives up the price or delays the contract, forcing the contractor to suffer.
Or, instead of awarding the contract to a small business, the Government, with lack of time before the end of the fiscal year, gives the award to a large business because they can do the work, not having the time to fully ID the small business or run that procurement process.

I see it every day. Small businesses are getting killed out of these cuts.

Maybe the government should get on board and operate on a same playing field as the private sector where incompetency, fraud and failure means heads roll and answer are required. Where budget restraints and profitability are goals. Accountability is required operational procedures. Billions on billions pissed away by this Administration on Green Energy (should I list the failures) that could have gone for small business and entrepreneur with viable ideas and job creation expansions.

ptown_trojans_1;1482516 wrote:Because there were furloughs, which impact existing work. Furloughs are like cuts because, instead of doing work in 5 days, it now gets done in 4, 3 in some offices. And, workers cannot work over 8-9 hours each day.
And yes, programs have been cut, delayed. Things that were budgeted for FY13, especially in the Defense side, have been canceled or delayed. (Mainly on the IT, Professional Services, and Construction side).
Not sure what you are reading, but I see the "cuts" and furloughs daily.

OMG.

'13 estimated spending at $3.684 trillion vs. '12 at $3.537 trillion, a $147 BILLION INCREASE, or plus 4.15%.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z1.xls

The word "cut" has never been part of the D.C. lexicon, and never will be. All anyone down there knows how to do is spend more and more of other people's money. They couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.


Change we can believe in ....

QuakerOats;1482679 wrote:OMG.

'13 estimated spending at $3.684 trillion vs. '12 at $3.537 trillion, a $147 BILLION INCREASE, or plus 4.15%.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/hist01z1.xls

The word "cut" has never been part of the D.C. lexicon, and never will be. All anyone down there knows how to do is spend more and more of other people's money. They couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.


Change we can believe in ....

That's the 1000 ft view, I am speaking to actual Program budgets at the DOD Program Office level.
Those are the cuts where their budgets have been cut by 11.8% in FY13 for their request.

Some programs, like the F-35, or new ship, obviously inflate the numbers.
Also, military pay and healthcare also inflate the numbers.
When you take that out and look at the R&D and Professional Services budget, there is where you see the cuts.
And yes, they are cuts.
Programs and contracts are getting scaled back and/ or cut.

You don't get it because you don't understand how the budgetary process and programmatic budget works.

Belly35;1482586 wrote:Maybe the government should get on board and operate on a same playing field as the private sector where incompetency, fraud and failure means heads roll and answer are required. Where budget restraints and profitability are goals. Accountability is required operational procedures. Billions on billions pissed away by this Administration on Green Energy (should I list the failures) that could have gone for small business and entrepreneur with viable ideas and job creation expansions.

Kind of hard to do that when workers are furloughed.

ptown_trojans_1;1482683 wrote:That's the 1000 ft view, I am speaking to actual Program budgets at the DOD Program Office level.
Those are the cuts where their budgets have been cut by 11.8% in FY13 for their request.

Some programs, like the F-35, or new ship, obviously inflate the numbers.
Also, military pay and healthcare also inflate the numbers.
When you take that out and look at the R&D and Professional Services budget, there is where you see the cuts.
And yes, they are cuts.
Programs and contracts are getting scaled back and/ or cut.

You don't get it because you don't understand how the budgetary process and programmatic budget works.

I get it just fine. If overall spending is up, but pentagon spending is down, then generally speaking entitlement spending has to be up, and it is. Given who is president, this is not surprising. But to go around crying about sequestor cuts as if total federal spending has - finally - been cut, is just another D.C. lie -------- and most of us are damn tired of it. And the charades, such as closing the WH to tours etc... "due to spending cuts", are simply laughable. It totally represents the complete ineptness of the community activists who now 'Occupy WH'.

All of us in the private sector have had to deal major, REAL, cuts; some on the order of 35%. We manage through .............. all the while being villified and treated with hostility by the Dictator-in-Chief and his radical minions.

IT IS GETTING OLD !!!!

ptown_trojans_1;1482684 wrote:Kind of hard to do that when workers are furloughed.

Now you understand why the economy is where it is, thanks to your leader and his agenda. So when lay off and furloughs come into play with the government it can function but the private sector is expected to... really

Don't you get it, come on you’re a smart guy .... it simple Obama an asshole and is killing this great country and guys like you take the bullshit hook, line and sinker until it start to hit home and then it’s to late...

I found the news somewhat interesting today, parading the efforts of spying on us becuase of the secret threats in the middle east.. here is my timeline:

Snowden "Guys ... they are literally spying on your asses in real time"

US "Well, only in metadata"

Media "Is this bad?"

US - "We have code level blue - al queda coming to get us (unknown place uknown time)-- be fearful!"

Media "We told you the syping is good for USA! Forget the Boston Bombings and other attacks that happened while the spying on your asses was taking place!"

People "OOOOOHHH Its good! Real patriots have nothing to hide!"

[QUOTEChing=rydawg5;1482954]I found the news somewhat interesting today, parading the efforts of spying on us becuase of the secret threats in the middle east.. here is my timeline:

Snowden "Guys ... they are literally spying on your asses in real time"

US "Well, only in metadata"

Media "Is this bad?"

US - "We have code level blue - al queda coming to get us (unknown place uknown time)-- be fearful!"

Media "We told you the syping is good for USA! Forget the Boston Bombings and other attacks that happened while the spying on your asses was taking place!"

People "OOOOOHHH Its good! Real patriots have nothing to hide!"[/QUOTE]

I was coming here to post this same thought. Can see this coming from a Mile away.

I see this closing of our embassies as another Obama failure of Mid East policy/agenda...
Plus this is another distraction diplomacy of the Obama administration. Over action with a agenda to justify something else.

C'mon guys, we're talking about Susan Rice...why would you think she'd be anything less than 100% forthcoming?

rydawg5;1482954 wrote:I found the news somewhat interesting today, parading the efforts of spying on us becuase of the secret threats in the middle east.. here is my timeline:

Snowden "Guys ... they are literally spying on your asses in real time"

US "Well, only in metadata"

Media "Is this bad?"

US - "We have code level blue - al queda coming to get us (unknown place uknown time)-- be fearful!"

Media "We told you the syping is good for USA! Forget the Boston Bombings and other attacks that happened while the spying on your asses was taking place!"

People "OOOOOHHH Its good! Real patriots have nothing to hide!"