ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 19, 2015 8:54pm
If you take the IR theory definition of realism, Iran has largely acted as a rational actor since 1979. Everything they have done has been calculated and had a rational behind it.
Hezbollah and attacks were in response by an asymmetrical reaction to a superior foe.
And, folks, Ahmadinejad has been gone for a while and never even had real power to begin with.
Hezbollah and attacks were in response by an asymmetrical reaction to a superior foe.
And, folks, Ahmadinejad has been gone for a while and never even had real power to begin with.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 20, 2015 1:30pm
The 'JV team' strikes again: 137 dead.
TedSheckler
Posts: 3,974
Mar 20, 2015 3:14pm
In a country that has been labeled as a counterterrorism success by Obama.QuakerOats;1715158 wrote:The 'JV team' strikes again: 137 dead.
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superman
Posts: 3,582
Mar 20, 2015 3:24pm
If only the Yemenites would have settled in a safer place like Argentina, those people would still be alive.TedSheckler;1715178 wrote:In a country that has been labeled as a counterterrorism success by Obama.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 20, 2015 4:01pm
QuakerOats;1715158 wrote:The 'JV team' strikes again: 137 dead.
Yeah it was, until the country pretty much tore itself apart. The Sunni-Shia dynamic, with influence from Iran, has really split the state in half. That has allowed AQAP and IS to fill a void.TedSheckler;1715178 wrote:In a country that has been labeled as a counterterrorism success by Obama.
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superman
Posts: 3,582
Mar 20, 2015 4:29pm
But but but Iran never interferes with other countries or does anything bad.ptown_trojans_1;1715187 wrote:Yeah it was, until the country pretty much tore itself apart. The Sunni-Shia dynamic, with influence from Iran, has really split the state in half. That has allowed AQAP and IS to fill a void.
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jmog
Posts: 6,567
Mar 20, 2015 4:47pm
No, you need to try again because I stated facts you gave opinion.BoatShoes;1714260 wrote:The events of the Islamic Revolution gave birth to the modern Iranian state and those revolutionary acts do not count as "irrational acts" of the state because they toppled the secular state. Beyond that the bluster you speak of has not been followed by irrational actions like Suddam Hussein's actions.
So you need to try again.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 20, 2015 6:16pm
Other than boatshoes, who says that?superman;1715194 wrote:But but but Iran never interferes with other countries or does anything bad.
Iran is doing what they done since 1979, try and grow Shia Islam.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Mar 20, 2015 6:35pm
^^^.... Yes, this "rational" nation that openly and surrepticiously supports terrorists that brazenly attack innocent men, women and children.
Geez, can we at least agree that they are a destabilizing force in the area and are not to be trusted?
Geez, can we at least agree that they are a destabilizing force in the area and are not to be trusted?
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superman
Posts: 3,582
Mar 20, 2015 6:38pm
You defended them like 5 posts up.ptown_trojans_1;1715220 wrote:Other than boatshoes, who says that?
Iran is doing what they done since 1979, try and grow Shia Islam.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 20, 2015 6:39pm
They cannot be trusted, that we agree. They are the main state that is destabilizing the region. (IS being the other non-state)HitsRus;1715232 wrote:^^^.... Yes, this "rational" nation that openly and surrepticiously supports terrorists that brazenly attack innocent men, women and children.
Geez, can we at least agree that they are a destabilizing force in the area and are not to be trusted?
Irrational actions involves they do things without thought or the consequences. I would say, since 1979, everything they have done was with a calculation or rational behind it.
The formation and support of Hezbollah was to gain a foothold for Shia Islam during the Lebanese Civil War. And, the terrorist attacks have been in response to superior foes.
But, to say they are irrational, doesn't understand the term using the IR definition.
North Korea is irrational. Iran has a calculation behind their actions.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 20, 2015 6:39pm
They are not irrational, but they are the main enemy in the region.superman;1715233 wrote:You defended them like 5 posts up.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Mar 20, 2015 6:45pm
How so?ptown_trojans_1;1715234 wrote:North Korea is irrational.
And North Korea does not? They got nukes and got the US and South Korea to feed their people while finalizing it.ptown_trojans_1;1715234 wrote:Iran has a calculation behind their actions.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 20, 2015 6:54pm
How so? The fact that any rational policy has been rebuffed and failed.majorspark;1715237 wrote:How so?
And North Korea does not? They got nukes and got the US and South Korea to feed their people while finalizing it.
If want to say their rational is by acting irrationally in discussions, then sure.
But, by the IR definition, their past history puts them in the irrational category.
If Iran breaks away the talks, fires missiles and test a nuke, then comes back and says, we want to talk again but act like something happen, then we can call them irrational.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Mar 20, 2015 7:02pm
So were they being rational back in the early 90's when they were not firing missiles, nor testing nukes, and talking and making deals? After fooling everyone they got nukes and as you say now act irrationally. Is this what we can expect in the future from Iran?ptown_trojans_1;1715238 wrote:If Iran breaks away the talks, fires missiles and test a nuke, then comes back and says, we want to talk again but act like something happen, then we can call them irrational.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 20, 2015 7:16pm
No they weren't, but whatever.majorspark;1715242 wrote:So were they being rational back in the early 90's when they were not firing missiles, nor testing nukes, and talking and making deals? After fooling everyone they got nukes and as you say now act irrationally. Is this what we can expect in the future from Iran?
So, you are comparing North Korea to Iran...ok. Sure.
Go right ahead.
Look, if you all want to call Iran irrational, then fine. No one of serious authority is, so continue on.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Mar 20, 2015 7:24pm
We are splitting hairs on the definition of rational. The fact that they are a destabilizing force in the area, and one that cannot be trusted to adhere to normal standards of civility, means that they cannot be trusted to make deals in good faith.
Why do we continue to pursue deals with them on nuclear development? If you can't trust them not to support murder of innocents, how can you trust them to honor an agreement?
Why do we continue to pursue deals with them on nuclear development? If you can't trust them not to support murder of innocents, how can you trust them to honor an agreement?
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Mar 20, 2015 7:29pm
Well facing a realistic threat of having their nuclear facilities bombed by the most powerful air force on the earth they came to the table and made a deal. Promised to stop. Lied and got free energy and food to finish up the program. Sounds not only rational but ingenious. The only thing irrational was us trusting the Norks to hold up their end of the deal.ptown_trojans_1;1715251 wrote:No they weren't, but whatever.
I am not calling Iran irrational. Quite the opposite.ptown_trojans_1;1715251 wrote:Look, if you all want to call Iran irrational, then fine. No one of serious authority is, so continue on.
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 25, 2015 2:29pm
Fox News confirms that Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, released last May by the Taliban, will be charged with desertion.
...and he was traded for terrorists !!!
NOT MY PREZ!
...and he was traded for terrorists !!!
NOT MY PREZ!
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wkfan
Posts: 1,641
Mar 25, 2015 3:26pm
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/bowe-bergdahl-charges-decision/index.htmlQuakerOats;1716277 wrote:Fox News confirms that Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, released last May by the Taliban, will be charged with desertion.
...and he was traded for terrorists !!!
NOT MY PREZ!
6 soldiers died trying to save him, BHO swapped 5 terrorists for him....now he is charged with desertion.
Just one in a long line of bad decisions made by the POTUS.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 25, 2015 3:35pm
That's the saddest part.wkfan;1716291 wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/bowe-bergdahl-charges-decision/index.html
6 soldiers died trying to save him
What's disgraceful is Obama using the exchange to stage a photo op. Obama is all about optics and only about optics.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Mar 26, 2015 1:26pm
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Mar 26, 2015 3:12pm
Yeah, Iran, under IAEA safeguards that are being worked out.
What did you think Iran would give up all of its enrichment? That was never an option.
And really, this is not an unprecedented move, it was already common knowledge. Israel and nukes is the worst kept secret in the Middle East.
It did nothing to change the region.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Mar 26, 2015 5:33pm
Petulance at best...Chicago style underworld politics most likely....the veiled threat. At least that is what the Israelis are taking it as.
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gut
Posts: 15,058
Mar 26, 2015 6:10pm
Yep. bushleague Obama butt-hurt.HitsRus;1716531 wrote:Petulance at best...Chicago style underworld politics most likely....the veiled threat. At least that is what the Israelis are taking it as.