Con_Alma;1309073 wrote:Have you considered that there may indeed be such a motivation but it's simply not equal to those actions which do provide benefits?

I have considered it, yes. I'm looking for something more substantive to validate it, I suppose.

An example of maybe someone dying for a stranger when he thought they were both going to die anyway is a potential example, but I'm curious about why that motivates a human. Do we see it elsewhere in nature?

O-Trap;1309086 wrote:... Do we see it elsewhere in nature?

It seems that altruism is well documented in animal behavior.

On the flip side there are those who think it's a myth. Here's an article from Psychology Today.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/greaseless/201105/the-myth-animal-altruism

Con_Alma;1309153 wrote:It seems that altruism is well documented in animal behavior.

On the flip side there are those who think it's a myth. Here's an article from Psychology Today.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/greaseless/201105/the-myth-animal-altruism

I certainly cannot contest that there are plenty of examples of animal behavior that benefit another. My question is not about the action, but about the motivation for the action. Bill Gates can give millions to charity, but is it to boost his public image? To keep up with what is accepted behavior among billionaires To take a hefty tax write-off? To make his family proud of him? To get rid of some cash lying around that is in the way? Hell, just to make him feel good about himself?

The action might appear altruistic, but is it? I'd contest that it is not, no matter which one of those motivations that you pick.

In the animal kingdom, I've never seen an example of an altruistic action that could not be motivated by any self-serving inklings. Increasing status in the "pack." Ensuring the future of one's own offspring. Being accepted among a "community." Because the animal will be attacked by its own if it doesn't. All of these, while they may motivate seemingly altruistic behaviors, would be self-serving motivations, I suggest.

If survival is an innate, base motivator of living organisms, then I'd think it would trump most other motivators, except for ones that are equally instinctive, if not moreso.

...which is why I say that without true benefit altruistic actions would be random in nature and occur as frequently as selfish ones. They would be nothing more than available options.

I believe we are all born a blank slate, neither good nor bad. Then depending on how you are raised and treated molds how you will respond when put in a position to make moral decisions. Unfortunately a large majority of people are raised to be self-serving..."get mine before somebody else gets it" and the cycle continues.

This thread's too smart for me. Too many big words I don't want to Google. Next thread...

One's actions are what makes them good or bad.