Dr Winston O'Boogie;1815531 wrote:I just bought this based upon your post. I am looking forward to it. I see the same author has a book about Tecumseh that I would like to read someday. Have you read that one?

The Sorrow In...uh something Hearts, I think. I read part of it. For me, the problem was that, if you've read The Frontiersmen, it covers much of the same ground, just a bit more focused on Tecumseh, so I found it less interesting than his other books I've read because most of the content was familiar to me.

It's "A Sorrow In Our Heart" by Allan Eckert.

And I agree with Heretic on it, but still enjoyed it.

Just to clarify: my response to Apple "Bonah" was not meant to be a smart remark. It's the name of a significant character in The Frontiersmen.

sleeper;1815596 wrote:Reading Trump's autobiography. It's tremendous and uses the best words.

gosh a ruddies are any of them p*u*s*s*y.

gosh a ruddies Finished J. D. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy and started Nancy Isenberg's White Trash, the 400 year Untold Story of Class in America.

Heretic;1815631 wrote:The Sorrow In...uh something Hearts, I think. I read part of it. For me, the problem was that, if you've read The Frontiersmen, it covers much of the same ground, just a bit more focused on Tecumseh, so I found it less interesting than his other books I've read because most of the content was familiar to me.

Good to know. I'll stick to the Frontiersmen for now.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1816186 wrote:Good to know. I'll stick to the Frontiersmen for now.

Allen Eckert did a great job of telling interesting stories about the frontier history of the region. His writing is what got me interested in that period in our history. But one thing I learned as I got a little deeper into that history is you have to take what he writes with a grain of salt. He often goes with what seems an interesting story instead of what is true. A couple of examples in the Frontiersman are the Tecumseh-Rebecca Galloway story, another Blue Jacket-Marmaduke Van Swearingen both fiction.

isadore;1816811 wrote:Allen Eckert did a great job of telling interesting stories about the frontier history of the region. His writing is what got me interested in that period in our history. But one thing I learned as I got a little deeper into that history is you have to take what he writes with a grain of salt. He often goes with what seems an interesting story instead of what is true. A couple of examples in the Frontiersman are the Tecumseh-Rebecca Galloway story, another Blue Jacket-Marmaduke Van Swearingen both fiction.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in fairness to Eckert, I thought at the time of The Frontiersman, the BJ/Marmaduke story at least hadn't been definitively proven false. At least I thought I remembered it being debunked a ways after I read that book.

EDIT: After looking at Wiki, it said the BJ = Marmaduke story came in the later 1800s. Eckert wrote Frontierman in the late 1960s. A historian said that probably wasn't the case in 1978 and DNA evidence proved it wasn't in the 2000s. So with that particular story, it was more of Eckert using the resources and stories available at that time, rather than attempting to mislead for the sake of telling a better story.

^^^^^ Just a thought I've had on that subject. The Indians did a lot of adopting, which could skew DNA tests.

BRF;1817030 wrote:^^^^^ Just a thought I've had on that subject. The Indians did a lot of adopting, which could skew DNA tests.

Blue Jacket had a white wife and that explains why some white ancestry shows in his descendants DNA.

Heretic;1816960 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but in fairness to Eckert, I thought at the time of The Frontiersman, the BJ/Marmaduke story at least hadn't been definitively proven false. At least I thought I remembered it being debunked a ways after I read that book.

EDIT: After looking at Wiki, it said the BJ = Marmaduke story came in the later 1800s. Eckert wrote Frontierman in the late 1960s. A historian said that probably wasn't the case in 1978 and DNA evidence proved it wasn't in the 2000s. So with that particular story, it was more of Eckert using the resources and stories available at that time, rather than attempting to mislead for the sake of telling a better story.

Again I think it is him selecting a good story over historical fact. There is no mention of Blue Jacket in surviving contemporary accounts. The story Marmaduke Van
Swearingen story first appeared in a article in the Old State Journal in 1877 written by Thomas Jefferson Larsh 67 years after the Shawnee's death. Marmaduke Van Swearingen was real person but born 20 years after the real Blue Jacket. Best source John Sugden's well researched book on the Indian including citations and bibliography. Eckert has a Blue Jacket book but it was written for children and includes no citations or bibliography. Eckert continued to make the Blue Jacket Van Swearingen in his 1992 book Sorrow in Our Hearts.

A Sorrow in Our Heart: The Life of Tecumseh

Face Palm: The Story of a Noob

BRF;1817350 wrote:Face Palm: The Story of a Noob

Your autobiography?

thavoice;1817373 wrote:Your autobiography?

Good guess.

Just finished "The Heavenly Table" by Donald Ray Pollack. The third outstanding book from this Chillicothe-based writer is a great period story from 1917. If you don't know Pollack's work, it is very dark, with great humor, tremendous character development, Quentin Tarantino-esque dialogue and beautiful descriptive narratives. He's not for everyone. However if you like that kind of thing, he may be the best currently out there.

Dr Winston O'Boogie;1815531 wrote:I just bought this based upon your post. I am looking forward to it. I see the same author has a book about Tecumseh that I would like to read someday. Have you read that one?

I have a copy of Sorrow in Our Heart, but like was mentioned... its a lot like the Frontiersmen so I've never finished it. How'd you like The Frontiersmen?

Heretic;1816960 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but in fairness to Eckert, I thought at the time of The Frontiersman, the BJ/Marmaduke story at least hadn't been definitively proven false. At least I thought I remembered it being debunked a ways after I read that book.

EDIT: After looking at Wiki, it said the BJ = Marmaduke story came in the later 1800s. Eckert wrote Frontierman in the late 1960s. A historian said that probably wasn't the case in 1978 and DNA evidence proved it wasn't in the 2000s. So with that particular story, it was more of Eckert using the resources and stories available at that time, rather than attempting to mislead for the sake of telling a better story.

Blue Jacket being a white was indeed debunked with DNA tests done at Wright State University. I had not known that until we did a podcast at the Fort Recovery Museum this past September and the museum director talked about how the BJ story told in The Frontiersmen has been debunked. I was very surprised! You can hear it in my response...

In his defense, Eckert was working with info that was available to him at the time he wrote the book.

Listen to the podcast here: http://ohiopodcast.com/wordpress1/ep019-fort-recovery-state-museum-part-1-st-clairs-campaign

Apple;1817432 wrote:Blue Jacket being a white was indeed debunked with DNA tests done at Wright State University. I had not known that until we did a podcast at the Fort Recovery Museum this past September and the museum director talked about how the BJ story told in The Frontiersmen has been debunked. I was very surprised! You can here it in my response...

In his defense, Eckert was working with info that was available to him at the time he wrote the book.

Listen to the podcast here: http://ohiopodcast.com/wordpress1/ep019-fort-recovery-state-museum-part-1-st-clairs-campaign

That may be true about when Eckert wrote The Frontiersman, but by the publication of Sorrow in Our Hearts in 1992 many articles had appeared in the 1980s showing that the Blue Jacket-Van Swearingen story was not true. He chose to ignore them and repeat the claim. It is interesting that by 1992 he had abandoned the disproven Rebecca Galloway-Tecumseh romance that he had claimed in his earlier book but stuck with the Blue Jacket Story.

Not sure we'll ever know why Eckert kept the BJ story in "Sorrow" given that he's dead. DNA test were done in early 00's after "Sorrow" was released.

The whole thing makes me wonder about the outdoor drama "Blue Jacket" (Xenia) and if it closed down because the story was proven false?

Apple;1817432 wrote:

Listen to the podcast here: http://ohiopodcast.com/wordpress1/ep019-fort-recovery-state-museum-part-1-st-clairs-campaign

Thanks for the link!

Apple;1817453 wrote:Not sure we'll ever know why Eckert kept the BJ story in "Sorrow" given that he's dead. DNA test were done in early 00's after "Sorrow" was released.

The whole thing makes me wonder about the outdoor drama "Blue Jacket" (Xenia) and if it closed down because the story was proven false?

according to this writer that was one of the causes.
http://kylesallegoryofthecave.blogspot.com/2013/04/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo.html#!/2013/04/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo.html

BRF;1817457 wrote:Thanks for the link!

Hope you like it! If you have the time, listen to the Canton Brewery Beer Tasting podcast... you might recognize someone doing the beer tastings! Prost!

isadore;1817461 wrote:according to this writer that was one of the causes.
http://kylesallegoryofthecave.blogspot.com/2013/04/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo.html#!/2013/04/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo.html

Interesting! Thanks...

What's everyone reading at the start of the year?
I have had a little more time to read so far.

Finished up Dreamland, which focuses on the growth of drug use and opiate usage in Portsmouth and around the country. Really eye opening and sad in spots on what has been going on in my neck of the woods.

I also finished up the Black Banners, from former FBO integrator, Ali Soufan.
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Banners-Inside-Against-al-Qaeda/dp/0393079422
It is really a good inside story of the fight to go after al Qaeda from 1993-2003, with most of it detailing the Yemen USS Cole investigation and the interrogation of terrorists in the early post 9/11 days.

I am now nearly halfway through the epic 750 page Lincoln novel Team of Rivals
https://www.amazon.com/Team-Rivals-Political-Abraham-Lincoln/dp/0743270754

Given the news today, it is actually really interesting to read how Lincoln formed his cabinet and led during the dark days of the country.

I've finished 7 books so far this year, though one was a Great Courses lecture series from audible.

Bourbon for Breakfast - Jeffrey Tucker
Live By Night - Dennis Lehane
The Cat Who Walks Through Wall - Robert Heinlein
The 10% Entrepreneur - Patrick McGinnis
Free Market Revolution: How Ayn Rand's Ideas Can End Big Government - Yaron Brooks & Don Watkins
The Big Questions of Philosophy - The Great Courses
Equal is Unfair: America's Misguided Fight Against Income Inequality - Yaron Brooks & Don Watkins

I am current reading World Gone By (Dennis Lehane, follow up to Live By Night).