Prescott;1439750 wrote:The jeweler waited 18 months and until Thomas was drawing an NBA salary to file the suit.You are right we (all of us) have no idea who, if anyone, is protected by a gag order. I guess one would have to know who has the most to lose by the total truth coming out.

Which makes the suit all the more suspicious. There was never any indication that Lance Thomas would ever make serious money playing basketball, let alone reach the NBA. Then, as soon as he does, the jeweler goes after him in a way that Lance Thomas seemed very surprised about when the suit initially came out. Without knowing the particulars of the settlement, however, we'll never know what actually went down and why.

Why would he file suit against someone who couldn't pay? He waited until Thomas could pay. Nothing susopicious about.

Thomas seemed surprised?? How would you know that? Did he think a $70,000.00 debt would just be forgiven.C'mon, even Thomas must be smarter than that.

reclegend22;1440011 wrote:Which makes the suit all the more suspicious. There was never any indication that Lance Thomas would ever make serious money playing basketball, let alone reach the NBA. Then, as soon as he does, the jeweler goes after him in a way that Lance Thomas seemed very surprised about when the suit initially came out. Without knowing the particulars of the settlement, however, we'll never know what actually went down and why.

Nothing weird about that at all actually. No credit line (card, jewelers, banks, me, etc) are going to come after you if you have no money. Especially if there is a chance you will have quite a bit soon. They might win the case and get a pat of your net worth which would be shit...or they can wait an get the full amount that you owe them.

Annnnnnd, fuck. Now I am involved in this ridiculous debate lol

Prescott;1440028 wrote:Why would he file suit against someone who couldn't pay? He waited until Thomas could pay. Nothing susopicious about.

Thomas seemed surprised?? How would you know that? Did he think a $70,000.00 debt would just be forgiven.C'mon, even Thomas must be smarter than that.

Again, we don't really know anything. But, one possiblity could be that Lance believed he was ripped off in some way by the jewelry he recieved, or by the original deal, and told the jeweler that he wasn't going to pay the remaining difference and wanted to return the jewelry for his original down payment. The jeweler may have refused, citing the contract, and then took the opportunity to sue Thomas for the remaining difference once he made an NBA roster.

There is probably much more to this case than meets the eye. We are just left to assume at this point. Which is why it's ridiculous to jump to conclusions and presume Thomas's guilt despite having no actual evidence that proves anything illegal went down.

What I mean is that Thomas may have believed the jewelry wasn't worth the full $100,000 or whatever the final total was supposed to be, and instead worth closer to the $30,000 that he originally paid. So, in that instance, just keeping the jewelry would make sense if the jeweler refused to void the original loan agreement. Perhaps Thomas thought he had worked out a deal with the jeweler or was in the process of working out a deal but they misled him and then took it to court to get the money out of him.

The whole story isn't in front of us, so nobody can say exactly what went down. This same jeweler had been involved in shady deals in the past, so we don't know how they might have twisted this whole thing.

reclegend22;1439994 wrote:Fair enough. "Knowingly" was the wrong word. However, there is a distinct difference between the UNC academic scandal and the Lance Thomas case. UNC was in fact doing something wrong -- at least the university, if not the basketball program directly -- by essentially making up a pretend degree that involved forged grades, very few if any tests and crooked instructors, a degree in which scores of Tar Heel basketball players reportedly pursued over the years.

Lance Thomas paid $30,000 of what is believed to have been his own money -- nothing we know indicates otherwise -- to buy jewelry and then got a loan based off the proof of his down payment. Some say the loan was based on his status as a five points per game role player at Duke who at the time, at best, had a future playing for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants. I say that if any college kid walked into that particular NYC jewelry establishment with 30 g's in cash, the store would have given them a loan on the spot, knowing that if the customer was good for $30,000, even if they didn't come through on the loan, they could probably sue the family regardless. Again, Rafaello & Co. has already proven to be shady based on its sketchy past, which includes selling stolen merchandise and filing civil suits serially, so who knows what happened.

I keep getting reeled back into this, but apparently there is some type of disconnect between the two of us. I'm not trying to say that the academic scandal at Carolina and the Thomas situation, IF he did something wrong, are on par. The Thomas situation was being debated on this thread, and you brought up the Carolina academic issue initially. I used those two instances of examples as to why the NCAA is a joke on all levels. They, to this point, have decided to let the academic issue go, stating that it was only an academic issue, not an athletic one. Fine with me, obviously. However, if they pursued it further and, in the end, vacated any of Carolina's titles, I would think it's ridiculous simply because I'm not a fan of changing history that clearly happened due to off the court issues. With Thomas, the NCAA doesn't have the power to question him or the jeweler, so the matter is closed. However, if either party cooperated and wrongdoing was found, how dumb would it be for Duke's title to be vacated? You see what I'm getting at? It's all a matter of eligibility, and the inept NCAA is left to decide who's good to go and who isn't, but only when they are given the authority to enforce their own rules.

In summary, the NCAA has its set of rules that, in some cases, it chooses not to enforce. Sometimes they go all out and punish schools like USC, Memphis, and Ohio State. Other times, they don't have the power to enforce their own rules. The only thing I take back during this entire debate is making the conclusion that Thomas committed a violation without the actual proof. That was bad wording on my part. If the NCAA is going to have the rules that they have, they need to be able to enforce them and do so in a consistent and fair manner. It seems as though that rarely happens.

ironman02;1440464 wrote:I keep getting reeled back into this, but apparently there is some type of disconnect between the two of us. I'm not trying to say that the academic scandal at Carolina and the Thomas situation, IF he did something wrong, are on par. The Thomas situation was being debated on this thread, and you brought up the Carolina academic issue initially. I used those two instances of examples as to why the NCAA is a joke on all levels. They, to this point, have decided to let the academic issue go, stating that it was only an academic issue, not an athletic one. Fine with me, obviously. However, if they pursued it further and, in the end, vacated any of Carolina's titles, I would think it's ridiculous simply because I'm not a fan of changing history that clearly happened due to off the court issues. With Thomas, the NCAA doesn't have the power to question him or the jeweler, so the matter is closed. However, if either party cooperated and wrongdoing was found, how dumb would it be for Duke's title to be vacated? You see what I'm getting at? It's all a matter of eligibility, and the inept NCAA is left to decide who's good to go and who isn't, but only when they are given the authority to enforce their own rules.

In summary, the NCAA has its set of rules that, in some cases, it chooses not to enforce. Sometimes they go all out and punish schools like USC, Memphis, and Ohio State. Other times, they don't have the power to enforce their own rules. The only thing I take back during this entire debate is making the conclusion that Thomas committed a violation without the actual proof. That was bad wording on my part. If the NCAA is going to have the rules that they have, they need to be able to enforce them and do so in a consistent and fair manner. It seems as though that rarely happens.

Agreed.

I hate to add anything else, because I think that one-word ending to this three-day saga is pretty ironic. But now that I know you were not directly comparing the academic issue to Thomas -- yes, that was my only real issue here, and yes, I'm entirely too thin-skinned -- I can see through my paranoia and see your true point. And I fully agree. The NCAA sucks.

Thank GOD!!!! lol

As reported a couple of weeks ago, Duke will be playing in the NIT Season-Tip Off this coming season, a field that includes Arizona. With both teams being heavy early Top Ten favorites nationally, a Wildcat-Blue Devil final in MSG seems likely. What fun that would be.

Duke's schedule for 2013-14 is shaping up to be a monster. Duke will face Kansas in the Champions Classic at the United Center in Chicago in November, Michigan in Cameron as part of the ACC-Big Ten Challenge, play Syracuse at the Carrier Dome as well as at home, potentially square off with Arizona in the NIT Season Tip-Off final, and the word currently is that Duke and UCLA have at least tentatively agreed to a meeting at MSG in late December. And then you add in two games against North Carolina and the rest of the ACC schedule, in addition to a likely game with St. John's (the annual series was on haitus last year, but is rumored to be resumed this season).

It's going to be a fun season, Duke fans.

A lot of talk about K possibly returning as the coach of Team USA to take a shot at a third consecutive Olympic gold in Rio in 2016, which would be stunning and absolutely cement his legacy as the greatest college basketball coach of modern times -- and arguably the most successful and decorated in basketball history, aside from perhaps John Wooden and Phil Jackson.

Personally, I hope K does return. K's affiliation with the NBA's greatest superstars over the past decade, and the teeming admiration and respect that guys like Kobe and LeBron have strongly demonstrated for their Team USA coach, has only helped build the Duke brand bigger and bigger, leading the way for a resurgence in recruiting in Durham over the past few years and also a revitalized K, who at 66 years old, is showing no signs of slowing down on his quest for 1,000 career victories and a fifth national championship.

reclegend22;1445640 wrote:
Personally, I hope K does return.

Shocking

Thanks for dropping by!

Talk here is about how it looks like Tariq Black is headed to Kansas. Means the Devils are without a targeted Center in next year's class. Haven't had much luck with that position outside of the Plumlee family over recent years. Missed on McGary, Parker last year and now this year Black.

swamisez;1446010 wrote:Haven't had much luck with that position outside of the Plumlee family over recent years.

In other words, Duke hasn't had much luck with that position over recent years.

Mason, while talented in certain areas of the game, just wasn't skilled enough defensively at the center position, and never understood -- or never wanted to understand -- that the rebound and kick-out is a vital tool in the facilitation of the Duke offense. It was a talent that Brian Zoubek evelvated to an art form, and he utilized that ability to help make Duke an oustandingly efficient offensive team.

Just reported today that Coach K will return to coach Team USA in Rio. He will be coaching for a third straight Olympic gold medal. I fully expect LeBron James, Kevin Durant and perhaps even Kobe Bryant (maybe as part of his basketball swan song) to all return for one more go-round.

reclegend22;1445640 wrote:A lot of talk about K possibly returning as the coach of Team USA to take a shot at a third consecutive Olympic gold in Rio in 2016, which would be stunning and absolutely cement his legacy as the greatest college basketball coach of modern times -- and arguably the most successful and decorated in basketball history, aside from perhaps John Wooden and Phil Jackson.

Personally, I hope K does return. K's affiliation with the NBA's greatest superstars over the past decade, and the teeming admiration and respect that guys like Kobe and LeBron have strongly demonstrated for their Team USA coach, has only helped build the Duke brand bigger and bigger, leading the way for a resurgence in recruiting in Durham over the past few years and also a revitalized K, who at 66 years old, is showing no signs of slowing down on his quest for 1,000 career victories and a fifth national championship.

Lol because it is so hard to win the Olympics with completely superior talent.

Yes, it is true that the players won the games, but it was the coaching staff, as well as the architect behind the new Team USA, Jerry Colangelo, that changed the culture of the team and made playing for our country desirable again. Let's not forget that there was a time when Team USA, even with stars like Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan and Stephon Marbury -- three of the best players at their positions in the NBA at the time -- as well as Carlos Boozer, D'Wayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony and a young although still brilliantly talented NBA All-Star in LeBron James, was in such disarray that it had to stumble to the finish line just to finish third against the rest of the world in the 2004 Summer Games. A time when that group of NBA stars didn't even place at the FIBAs.

Under the direction and leadership of the new regime, Team USA has prospered and the stars are once again excited to play and represent their country. That begins at the top. With the men in charge, the men who are entrusted with the responsibility of attracting and bringing together the NBA's best players and then getting them to buy into the concept of team and playing together for pride, glory and country. It's no easy feat, and something that the Olympic coach prior to K failed to accomplish.

The fact is, the NBA superstars of today want and desire to play for Coach K.

This says it all.



I could copy and paste dozens of quotes from those very stars proving my point, but I am sure I have done that before already.

Rec and his extreme hard on for the Hitler look-a-like is borderline homo

Midstate01;1446898 wrote:Rec and his extreme hard on for the Hitler look-a-like is borderline homo

Pretty ignorant, but whatever.

I will fill in the blanks concerning the 2004 Men's Olympic Basketball team.

In 2003 United States Basketball laid the groundwork for a return to dominance at the world level. A Larry Brown coached team demolished the competition and went 10-0 to win the 2003 Tournament of the Americas. The roster was as follows:

Ray Allen	G	6-5	205	28	Seattle SuperSonics / Connecticut '96
Mike Bibby	G	6-1	190	25	Sacramento Kings / Arizona '98
Elton Brand	F	6-8	265	24	Los Angeles Clippers / Duke '99
Vince Carter	G/F	6-6	225	26	Toronto Raptors / North Carolina '98
Nick Collison	F/C	6-9	250	23	Seattle SuperSonics/Kansas '03
Tim Duncan	C	6-11	248	27	San Antonio Spurs/ Wake Forest '97
Allen Iverson	G	6-0	165	28	Philadelphia 76ers / Georgetown '96
Richard Jefferson	F	6-7	222	23	New Jersey Nets / Arizona '01
Jason Kidd	G	6- 4	212	30	New Jersey Nets / California '94
Kenyon Martin	F	6-9	234	25	New Jersey Nets / Cincinnati '00
Tracy McGrady	G	6-8	210	24	Orlando magic / Mount zion Christian Academy '97
Jermaine O'Neal	F/C	6-11	242	24	Indiana Pacers / Eau Claire H.S. '97
Head Coach: Larry Brown, Philadelphia 76ers
Assistant Coach: Gregg Popovich, San Antonio Spurs
Assistant Coach: Oliver Purnell, Clemson University (SC)
Assistant Coach: Roy Williams, University of North Carolina

Even without the injured Kobie Bryant this team dominated in almost every category.

The USA as a team ranked first in seven of nine statistical categories. The Americans finished tops in scoring offense (101.7 ppg.), scoring margin (+30.9 ppg.), field goal percentage (.562), 3-point field goal percentage (.468), scoring defense (70.8 ppg.), defensive field goal percentage (.381) and rebounding margin (+11.3). The USA also ranked seventh in free throw percentage (.717) and fifth in 3-point field goals made per game (7.40).

Only 3 of the players on this team chose to play in the 2004 Olympics and Kobie Bryant also declined forcing U.S.Basketball to scramble to put together a team.

It is great what Colangelo, k, and his staff have done, but let's put things in their proper perspective.

Prescott;1446991 wrote:I will fill in the blanks concerning the 2004 Men's Olympic Basketball team.

In 2003 United States Basketball laid the groundwork for a return to dominance at the world level. A Larry Brown coached team demolished the competition and went 10-0 to win the 2003 Tournament of the Americas. The roster was as follows:

Ray Allen	G	6-5	205	28	Seattle SuperSonics / Connecticut '96
Mike Bibby	G	6-1	190	25	Sacramento Kings / Arizona '98
Elton Brand	F	6-8	265	24	Los Angeles Clippers / Duke '99
Vince Carter	G/F	6-6	225	26	Toronto Raptors / North Carolina '98
Nick Collison	F/C	6-9	250	23	Seattle SuperSonics/Kansas '03
Tim Duncan	C	6-11	248	27	San Antonio Spurs/ Wake Forest '97
Allen Iverson	G	6-0	165	28	Philadelphia 76ers / Georgetown '96
Richard Jefferson	F	6-7	222	23	New Jersey Nets / Arizona '01
Jason Kidd	G	6- 4	212	30	New Jersey Nets / California '94
Kenyon Martin	F	6-9	234	25	New Jersey Nets / Cincinnati '00
Tracy McGrady	G	6-8	210	24	Orlando magic / Mount zion Christian Academy '97
Jermaine O'Neal	F/C	6-11	242	24	Indiana Pacers / Eau Claire H.S. '97
Head Coach: Larry Brown, Philadelphia 76ers
Assistant Coach: Gregg Popovich, San Antonio Spurs
Assistant Coach: Oliver Purnell, Clemson University (SC)
Assistant Coach: Roy Williams, University of North Carolina

Even without the injured Kobie Bryant this team dominated in almost every category.

The USA as a team ranked first in seven of nine statistical categories. The Americans finished tops in scoring offense (101.7 ppg.), scoring margin (+30.9 ppg.), field goal percentage (.562), 3-point field goal percentage (.468), scoring defense (70.8 ppg.), defensive field goal percentage (.381) and rebounding margin (+11.3). The USA also ranked seventh in free throw percentage (.717) and fifth in 3-point field goals made per game (7.40).

Only 3 of the players on this team chose to play in the 2004 Olympics and Kobie Bryant also declined forcing U.S.Basketball to scramble to put together a team.

It is great what Colangelo, k, and his staff have done, but let's put things in their proper perspective.

I'm certainly glad you got that off your chest. I bet you were just all bottled up inside.

As I said, I agree that the players win the games and there has been an undeniable amount of star power on the previous two Olympic men's teams. That, however, does not take away from the fact that it is the coaches who set the tone -- the culture of the team -- and are responsible for getting that team on the same page and playing as a single unit. Managing an NBA basketball team, which is exactly what coaching Team USA is, is not as simple as rolling the balls out and letting them play, as the common misperception tends to be. These guys are the very best in the world at what they do. Successfully managing them is an extremely difficult job. It takes a special coach, one that is just as experienced and skilled with handling players off-the-court as on it. The praise K has received for his part -- just a small part, but a part nonetheless -- in restoring the USA basketball program cannot be overlooked. The players love him, they respect him, and they want to play for him.

LeBron James on K's return to Team USA wrote:I think it's great. What he means to USA Basketball is beyond just what we do on the court. It's what we stand for as Americans and being proud to wear the red, white and blue every time we step off the bus or go to practice or talk to the media or whatever the case may be.

Also, the Tournament of the Americas? Lol. Argentina was the only real threat in that competition. Canada, Uruguay and Mexico, as fierce as they are on the hardwood, likely didn't pose much of a road block.

The fact remains that only 3 of the players who played on the dominant Tournament of Americas team chose to participate in the 2004 Olympics. The team was assembled in somewhat of a panic and had very little time to prepare for the Olympic games. This group should be applauded for their efforts because they competed in spite of the road blocks they had before them.

The change in USA Basketball came when Jerry Colangelo became the head of USA Basketball and demanded a 3-year commitment from the players.This brought continuity to the program and put them on level ground with the international teams they would face.The commitment was the key to success

k has been great and deserves credit for his dedication and commitment as do the members of his staff.The most critical part of his job is selecting the team and that task has been a success. I don't think he or any of his staff is 'coaching up" Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade etc. I agree that k has seized the opportunity I think he would agree that the result has been 98% about the players and 2% about the coaching.I would feel very comfortable with any number of coaches assuming the role of head coach.

What would you expect LeBron to say? Really.......

Prescott;1447760 wrote:The fact remains that only 3 of the players who played on the dominant Tournament of Americas team chose to participate in the 2004 Olympics. The team was assembled in somewhat of a panic and had very little time to prepare for the Olympic games. This group should be applauded for their efforts because they competed in spite of the road blocks they had before them.

The change in USA Basketball came when Jerry Colangelo became the head of USA Basketball and demanded a 3-year commitment from the players.This brought continuity to the program and put them on level ground with the international teams they would face.The commitment was the key to success

k has been great and deserves credit for his dedication and commitment as do the members of his staff.The most critical part of his job is selecting the team and that task has been a success. I don't think he or any of his staff is 'coaching up" Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade etc. I agree that k has seized the opportunity I think he would agree that the results has been 98% about the players and 2% about the coaching.I would feel very comfortable with any number of coaches assuming the role of head coach.

What would you expect LeBron to say? Really.......

*K

And yes, as I said above, Jerry Colangelo was the architect of the Team USA revival. He deserves the lion's share of the credit.

As for LeBron's comments, players of his caliber are not required to shower praise upon anyone, but he has chosen to do so, time and again regarding his close relationship with K and what the man has meant to him and the team. As have many of the other Team USA members, including Kobe Bryant. We all know that Kobe hasn't always related well with his coaches in the past. He kneels to no one.

"As for LeBron's comments, players of his caliber are not required to shower praise upon anyone, but he has chosen to do so"

I have always been amazed by LeBron's media savvy. Except for "The Decision" he has always said the right thing at the right time.