karen lotz
Posts: 22,284
Oct 5, 2012 8:13pm
Unreal. Braves pissed it away earlier but that's horrible. LOL at mhs.
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mhs95_06
Posts: 8,167
Oct 5, 2012 8:16pm
Look at the "ordinary effort" phrase like this. It is the same phrase that is used to determine if it was an error. If they would not have called the infield fly, would Kozma have been charged with an error if the ball glanced off his glove to the ground? Surely he would have, he was under the ball and was calling it.
ts1227
Posts: 12,319
Oct 5, 2012 8:17pm
Nah. Thanks to Dolan no one gives enough of a shit anymore in Cleveland.Crimson streak;1288082 wrote:If this was Cleveland there would be a fire in the field and the umps would be dead lol
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Oct 5, 2012 8:21pm
Buster Olney said it was a horrible call. That's good enough for me.
karen lotz
Posts: 22,284
Oct 5, 2012 8:23pm
mhs95_06;1288092 wrote:Look at the "ordinary effort" phrase like this. It is the same phrase that is used to determine if it was an error. If they would not have called the infield fly, would Kozma have been charged with an error if the ball glanced off his glove to the ground? Surely he would have, he was under the ball and was calling it.
I look at it as if you are a clown
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 8:25pm
Chipper was out. Home town call...
karen lotz
Posts: 22,284
Oct 5, 2012 8:27pm
One time...
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 8:28pm
He's the perfect guy up when you are TRYING to hit a HR.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 8:29pm
Haha, Atlanta fans throw stuff at the Cards as they exit the field...
Classyposter58
Posts: 6,321
Oct 5, 2012 8:31pm
I want to see something similar to the Malace at the Palace a few years ago
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mhs95_06
Posts: 8,167
Oct 5, 2012 8:32pm
Defense was the difference in this game!
Mulva
Posts: 13,650
Oct 5, 2012 8:32pm
IggyPride00
Posts: 6,482
Oct 5, 2012 8:32pm
This will increase the calls for those that want the Wild Card series to be a best of 3.
In a 1 game sudden death playoff 1 blown call can effectively end a season. In a 3 game it hurts alot, but at least you have a chance to get past it.
In a 1 game sudden death playoff 1 blown call can effectively end a season. In a 3 game it hurts alot, but at least you have a chance to get past it.
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Oct 5, 2012 8:46pm
Just read the ruling on the protest will be made tonight. What are the possibilities? Aside from the obvious game will stand as played.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 8:48pm
The call was made CORRECTLY the way the MLB rule reads. It's a judgement call. The umpire has to do what he can to inform the runners ASAP he is stating infield fly. It was clearly his intent to do so though.
An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule. When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.” The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul. If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball. If a declared Infield Fly falls untouched to the ground outside the baseline, and bounces fair before passing first or third base, it is an Infield Fly.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder —not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.
When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05 (L). The infield fly rule takes precedence.
An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule. When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.” The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul. If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball. If a declared Infield Fly falls untouched to the ground outside the baseline, and bounces fair before passing first or third base, it is an Infield Fly.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder —not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.
When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05 (L). The infield fly rule takes precedence.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 8:51pm
...and no, immediately is not defined explicitly in the MLB rule book. Therefore, applying what is "immediate" is also a judgement call. That would be all Atlanta's appeal would be based on and I predict it gets heard for about 5 seconds before it's denied. It's like having a pitch that is right down the middle not called a strike immediately. So the umpire waits 5 seconds to declare it a strike...that doesn't make it an automatic ball.
Jughead
Posts: 1,261
Oct 5, 2012 8:52pm
I doubt that, Iggy.
However, the infield fly rule must be tweaked. The rule was put in place so players couldn't deliberately drop the ball and get a possible double play, am I correct. If it were up to me, I'd make one simple and easy adjustment. If the play is deemed an infield fly and the defense doesn't catch the ball, the play is dead. Advance the runners to the next base including the hitter and (obviously) not record it as an out. Don't reward the defense for something they didn't do.
However, the infield fly rule must be tweaked. The rule was put in place so players couldn't deliberately drop the ball and get a possible double play, am I correct. If it were up to me, I'd make one simple and easy adjustment. If the play is deemed an infield fly and the defense doesn't catch the ball, the play is dead. Advance the runners to the next base including the hitter and (obviously) not record it as an out. Don't reward the defense for something they didn't do.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 8:54pm
That would actually be a disadvantage to the defense. What's next? On every error or mistake, EVERY runners/batter get(s) an automatic base or is limited to only one base?Jughead;1288115 wrote:I doubt that, Iggy.
However, the infield fly rule must be tweaked. The rule was put in place so players couldn't deliberately drop the ball and get a possible double play, am I correct. If it were up to me, I'd make one simple and easy adjustment. If the play is deemed an infield fly and the defense doesn't catch the ball, the play is dead. Advance the runners to the next base including the hitter and (obviously) not record it as an out. Don't reward the defense for something they didn't do.
Jughead
Posts: 1,261
Oct 5, 2012 9:00pm
It's simple, catch the damn ball!
You are putting words in my mouth now, I don't agree with any of the other scenarios you just posted. If it is an pop up and there are less than two outs, 99.99% of runners are going back to their base.
You are putting words in my mouth now, I don't agree with any of the other scenarios you just posted. If it is an pop up and there are less than two outs, 99.99% of runners are going back to their base.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 9:04pm
I guess we just see it the other way. I'd rather abandon the rule all together. It was put into place to mitigate an intentional (arguably, intelligent) play of inducing a force out on a simple pop up. The argument could be made to abandon the rule and simply ask every baserunner to be prepared to sprint to the next base or sprint back depending on the outcome of the play. It would eliminate players loafing on routing pop-ups/fly balls.
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Oct 5, 2012 9:05pm
Lol immediately is not defined? The definition of immediately is ummm IMMEDIATELY. I've NEVER seen an ump take 5 seconds on a strike call by the way.
Azubuike24
Posts: 15,933
Oct 5, 2012 9:10pm
Not really. I work in insurance claims. We make coverage decisions based on the insurance policy. If every word of our policy isn't also defined in that said policy, it's open to interpretation. Thus, I could deny it because my interpretation justifies it, and if someone wants to fight it, they need more than their own interpretation to do so. Obviously if there is a court precedent, we'd lose. If the court's interpretation agreed with my opposition, we'd lose. It doesn't mean I couldn't deny up-front and delay an outcome on the matter for months, maybe years. Same applies here. In MLB's rule book it doesn't specifically define how "immediately" should be used in their sport. Judgement.
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mhs95_06
Posts: 8,167
Oct 5, 2012 9:15pm
If an infield fly is called, you run the bases the same way as far as your positioning while the ball is in the air. You get off as far as you can and still be able to get back if the ball is caught. The difference then is when the ball comes down on an infield fly, if it is not caught, you only go for the next base if you feel like you can make it safely.
The way I would tweak the rule would be to declare the infield fly the same way, but if the ball is not caught in the air, the defensive team is limited to one force out. And a force out does not include doubling off a runner who has gotten off too far from his original base.
The way I would tweak the rule would be to declare the infield fly the same way, but if the ball is not caught in the air, the defensive team is limited to one force out. And a force out does not include doubling off a runner who has gotten off too far from his original base.
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mhs95_06
Posts: 8,167
Oct 5, 2012 9:30pm
Eliminating the infield fly rule wouldn't be bad either. You must realize there will be situations where a double play, or even a triple play may be easy if the defenders keep their cool and execute properly. Of course there are already situations under the rules that you can get a cheap double play if you know what you are doing with just a runner on first and less than 2 out. That would be a popped up bunt to the P, or a blooper to the first baseman. In both cases you appear like you are catching the ball and at the last second let it fall. Then very quickly, get the ball to 1B, but do not step on the base right away. First make the runner who starts at first decide whether he is going to stay or go. If he stays, tag him then step on first. If he goes, step on first, and then get him in a hotbox.
Tiger2003
Posts: 15,421
Oct 5, 2012 9:35pm
The Protest was denied.