HitsRus;1322061 wrote:c'mon molin...I even gave you reps on some of your other links you provided...and then you post a leftist op-ed. I'm disappointed.


So now talikng points can be lies? Is that what this guy is saying.

Somebody put the "talking points"(lies) together and the CIA approved them. That essentially means that there was no information in those "talking points" that might compromise their investigation. That's not the same thing as being responsible for the content and truthfulness of the dessemination of information. ....Who is in charge here?

....and none of this bothers you?

Hits that's just my twisted sense of humor I knew it was way left.

okay...you are forgiven:laugh:

Yeah, didn't want to know the terrorists we were on to them. They were so hot on the trail, in fact, that they did nothing to prevent or stop a terrorist attack on our embassy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/22/world/middleeast/un-ambassador-defends-remarks-on-benghazi-attack.html?_r=0

Finally...FINALLY, Susan Rice breaks her silence and talks about her remarks in regards to the Benghazi attacks....and it is appropriate that she chose Thanksgiving Day to do it. John McCain deserves a big thank you, as do the real journalists at Fox, who without which, this would have remained buried, and this administration would have come away with the notion that it can get away with lying to the American people any time it thinks it expedient. It was real journalism that uncovered Watergate...just as it was during Iran-Contra, Bill Clinton's finger wagging denials, and Bush's rush to war in Iraq.

Politicians SHOULD be held accountable for lying to the American Public...especially the guys at the top. What bothers me most of this story is the complicity of the main stream media....something that wasn't the case in the past. We need the media to be a watchdog. They are a bulwark protection against abuse by an increasingly powerful government.

This thread was started 2 months ago....and despite the stonewalling and spinning we now know that our government did indeed try to sell us and get away with a baldfaced lie. The what and who is/are responsible is still being sorted out.

We are being told that the Intelligence community was responsible for Susan Rice's remarks . Really? Who's in charge here? So is this excuse a defacto 'pardon' for GWB using faulty intelligence as a reason to invade Iraq???

Ms. Rice is responsible for her remarks. She might have sacrificed her integrity "for the team"...but she sacrificed her crediiblity nonetheless.
We are being treated to media and Democrat uvulations about 'racism'...nothing is further from the truth, but it is a deliberate attempt to distract us(the public) from the real issues, and is evidence of the complicity of media propagandists. I've said it before,... let's keep our eye on the ball, ...despite these attempts to fabricate other issues.

Politicians...and that includes Rice, need to understand that there are consequences to going on camera and deliberately lying. Plausible denialbility is not an excuse. 'They made me do it' or 'this is what I was given' is not an excuse either. If Rice's career is damaged, she should be furious, not at MCCain for holding her accountable for her statements, but towards the people who sabotaged her career by giving her false talking points and telling her to go and sell it with conviction.

Bigdogg;1322097 wrote:Stop just stop......The Republicans are just looking like idiots on this issue. The American people do not need to know specific intellence points while any operation is going on. Lets focus on working together to get the economy to recover faster.

Idiot is the correct word, but methinks you have it backwards, for days afterwards Rice and Obama (indirectly) were still blaming the video. What was the "operation"? It was an attack.

For Criminy's sake, I know you're a DEM stooge but how incompetent does this administration have to be for you to be a critic. You're still an American, don't you think you deserve better?

Rice should be gone...NOW!

HitsRus;1326890 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/22/world/middleeast/un-ambassador-defends-remarks-on-benghazi-attack.html?_r=0

Finally...FINALLY, Susan Rice breaks her silence and talks about her remarks in regards to the Benghazi attacks....and it is appropriate that she chose Thanksgiving Day to do it. John McCain deserves a big thank you, as do the real journalists at Fox, who without which, this would have remained buried, and this administration would have come away with the notion that it can get away with lying to the American people any time it thinks it expedient. It was real journalism that uncovered Watergate...just as it was during Iran-Contra, Bill Clinton's finger wagging denials, and Bush's rush to war in Iraq.

Politicians SHOULD be held accountable for lying to the American Public...especially the guys at the top. What bothers me most of this story is the complicity of the main stream media....something that wasn't the case in the past. We need the media to be a watchdog. They are a bulwark protection against abuse by an increasingly powerful government.

This thread was started 2 months ago....and despite the stonewalling and spinning we now know that our government did indeed try to sell us and get away with a baldfaced lie. The what and who is/are responsible is still being sorted out.

We are being told that the Intelligence community was responsible for Susan Rice's remarks . Really? Who's in charge here? So is this excuse a defacto 'pardon' for GWB using faulty intelligence as a reason to invade Iraq???

Ms. Rice is responsible for her remarks. She might have sacrificed her integrity "for the team"...but she sacrificed her crediiblity nonetheless.
We are being treated to media and Democrat uvulations about 'racism'...nothing is further from the truth, but it is a deliberate attempt to distract us(the public) from the real issues, and is evidence of the complicity of media propagandists. I've said it before,... let's keep our eye on the ball, ...despite these attempts to fabricate other issues.

Politicians...and that includes Rice, need to understand that there are consequences to going on camera and deliberately lying. Plausible denialbility is not an excuse. 'They made me do it' or 'this is what I was given' is not an excuse either. If Rice's career is damaged, she should be furious, not at MCCain for holding her accountable for her statements, but towards the people who sabotaged her career by giving her false talking points and telling her to go and sell it with conviction.

1. She is not a politician, she is a political appointee at a diplomatic position. The politician is the President.
2. Where did she say she lied? She said she went with the intelligence that was provided that said it was unclear exactly how it occurred, they were investigating, but the video and acts or terror were both influential. That gets overlooked all the time.
3. What is the meaning of the word lie? I ask this in the same fashion as when it was thrown around that Bush lied in Iraq.
Is there any evidence that specifically stated the President or Amb. Rice had any piece of information that contradicts what was said at that time of the interview?
4. Again, like Iraq, this was a massive intelligence blunder, sad, but it happens. The thing is to learn from it and move on.
These things happen. It blows I know, but to even suggest, oh, they lied about, impeach him/ her, is really stretching it. Most of the people in the business are just like, ok, let's move on now. Bigger things to do.

Geez...we are going to parse the word "lie"?.....kind of like 'I did not have sex with that woman.'...we are going to spin the definition of sex?

Ambassador Rice had access to the 'classified information' by virtue of her office, so she knew full well what was going on. Why was it so damn important to 'spin the truth' (since you don't want to use the 'L" word.)
Really I just expect more out of our leaders and our representatives. Is a shred of honesty to much to ask? The Pres. has still not answered any of the questions asked of him directly....the only thing we know he was doing during the seven hours the attack on Benghazi was going on was packing his bags for Vegas.
I empathize with Ms, Rice....she is a good diplomat, and a good 'soldier' for the administration....but it is not exactly her job as ambassador to the UN, to go on talk shows and represent the administration on an attack in the middle east. Obviously, she was set up to do this as no other high ranking State dept. official was going to do it.(read Hillary)
So Rice takes the hit for the 'remarks' that were 'provided' for her. Her credibility is now damaged. And she should be furious because she was the one set up to take the fall if it hit the fan (which it has).

Yeah, no big deal.

HitsRus;1327243 wrote:Geez...we are going to parse the word "lie"?.....kind of like 'I did not have sex with that woman.'...we are going to spin the definition of sex?

Ambassador Rice had access to the 'classified information' by virtue of her office, so she knew full well what was going on. Why was it so damn important to 'spin the truth' (since you don't want to use the 'L" word.)
Really I just expect more out of our leaders and our representatives. Is a shred of honesty to much to ask? The Pres. has still not answered any of the questions asked of him directly....the only thing we know he was doing during the seven hours the attack on Benghazi was going on was packing his bags for Vegas.


Yeah, no big deal.

Don't bother, all you need to know it is no big deal.

This is probably the worst National scandal since Watergate, but since we have Obama in the Executive suite, it is no big deal.

Why does Susan Rice have a job? What has she done (and I don't mean just getting in to Stanford, we all know Obama did nothing with his HLS degree)?

If it isn't lying, it is incompetence.

" 4. Again, like Iraq, this was a massive intelligence blunder, sad, but it happens. The thing is to learn from it and move on."

No, the person gets fired. Why hasn't she been fired? Are you that big of a DEM lickspittle? A massive intelligence blunder (per your words)...are there no consequences? Wow, sign me up for a federal government job....make a massive intelligence blunder? No biggie, keep your house in Loudon County and your taxpayer pension? I don't think so. It isn't just about being sad, actions (and in this case incompetent actions) have consequences. Rice should be gone.

Manhattan Buckeye;1327253 wrote:" 4. Again, like Iraq, this was a massive intelligence blunder, sad, but it happens. The thing is to learn from it and move on."

No, the person gets fired. Why hasn't she been fired? Are you that big of a DEM lickspittle? A massive intelligence blunder (per your words)...are there no consequences? Wow, sign me up for a federal government job....make a massive intelligence blunder? No biggie, keep your house in Loudon County and your taxpayer pension? I don't think so. It isn't just about being sad, actions (and in this case incompetent actions) have consequences. Rice should be gone.

I must have missed where the UN Amb. was involved in the intelligence collection process......
She was just given the facts by the CIA. She did not lie, as she said they were investigating the causes, but also said armed people were there with other motives.
You want someone fired, how about the head of the CIA, but oh, we screwed up in another fashion.
And during the Iraq debacle, who got fired?

This is amazing on here now. Where the hell were all these questions during the spring of 2003?

It is not as easy as you all want to make it out to be.

She was just given the facts by the CIA.

Except that the 'facts' she was given weren't really 'facts' at all...and she knew that.

A timeline...
http://wecheck.org/wiki/Benghazi_Attack_Timeline

ptown_trojans_1;1327286 wrote:I must have missed where the UN Amb. was involved in the intelligence collection process......
She was just given the facts by the CIA. She did not lie, as she said they were investigating the causes, but also said armed people were there with other motives.
You want someone fired, how about the head of the CIA, but oh, we screwed up in another fashion.
And during the Iraq debacle, who got fired?

This is amazing on here now. Where the hell were all these questions during the spring of 2003?

It is not as easy as you all want to make it out to be.

The question is easy because it was so obvious. Forget other "political" precedents, the entire situation is more reminiscent of the Duke Lacrosse case.

I remember the day ESPN first reported it in '06, one of my best friends was visiting over (incredibly smart guy, Harvard undergrad, UVA law review, now a partner at a V-15 NYC firm) - we looked at each other and had the same reaction. Complete BS. Yet that didn't stop the mainstream media to buy into Nifong's narrative, the NYT to repeatedly distort facts, a legal case to go on for over a year that should have been over in 2 days, etc. Res Ipsa Loquitur. Any story that incredible is likely non-credible.

Same thing with Rice, although not reacting with my friend but rather my wife. When the Obama administration's initial response was non-credible because, you know, we aren't stupid. Look who started this thread. It was a ridiculous story from the beginning. Do you think the attackers even have internet access, let alone aware of a random youtube video - and have the amazing organizational capabilities they had. It was a ridiculous story and Rice shouldn't have parroted it.

If I was a young ADA under Nifong, I would like to think I had the integrity to have stood up to him or at least not prostitute myself to forward a narrative that I knew was wrong.

Rice isn't a young ADA, she's our UN rep, and she should have known better. She needs to go, and you should expect more from our public servants. If it isn't lying, it is GROSS INCOMPETENCE.

Manhattan Buckeye;1327249 wrote:This is probably the worst National scandal since Watergate.

James Gatz;1327471 wrote:

No one died in Watergate. Last time I checked 4 people died in this scandal, and the Obama administration blamed it on an even lamer video that that.

Do you even know what Watergate was about? Laugh it up, 4 people died. Idiot.

Manhattan Buckeye;1327511 wrote:No one died in Watergate. Last time I checked 4 people died in this scandal, and the Obama administration blamed it on an even lamer video that that.

Do you even know what Watergate was about? Laugh it up, 4 people died. Idiot.

Why would I care about Watergate,? You said it was the biggest scandal SINCE then, so I assume you had Watergate ranked ahead as well. You seem very angry, and you're confusing yourself.

I would say the fact we went to war in Iraq under false pretenses is a bigger scandal than whatever you hope is going on here. But regardless...

A very unfortunate picture, a bit racist much?

^^^^^^Why would it be racist?

I would say the fact we went to war in Iraq under false pretenses

We would have went to war with Iraq anyway. There were a list of reasons that we went to war, the suspicion of WMD was only one of them.

rmolin73;1328053 wrote:^^^^^^Why would it be racist?

Perhaps you aren't an NBA fan. Aside from Gatz' post which made no sense, there was no reason to have a gorilla in the picture - it didn't add anything. But to the point you probably missed how some NBA players (most notably Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Patrick Ewing and Oliver Miller) have complained about the Phoenix Suns' gorilla mascot as being "racist."

I don't think it is, but I still don't understand the picture, or anything else Gatz posts. Fitzgerald needs to take back his character.

Yes, 4 people died in the attack, needlessly I might add. Unfortunately all of the bluster and finger-pointing won't bring them back any more than the other intelligence blunders we have seen, such as Iraq and 9/11. You seem to want your pound of flesh for this anyway, so rail on.

BTW, Susan Rice is no more guilty of misleading the public than George W. Bush was when he delivered his famous "yellowcake in Niger" excerpt in his State of the Union address. They were both reading from notes which were prepared for them by others. You see, it works both ways.

BTW, Susan Rice is no more guilty of misleading the public than George W. Bush was when he delivered his famous "yellowcake in Niger" excerpt in his State of the Union address. They were both reading from notes which were prepared for them by others. You see, it works both ways

SMH. While they were both reading 'notes' someone else had prepared, Bush, Powell and Condi Rice were talking to points that they thought were true, or probably true. Such was not the case here. I don't know how you could be a credible Sec of State with what has transpired here.

HitsRus;1328449 wrote:SMH. While they were both reading 'notes' someone else had prepared, Bush, Powell and Condi Rice were talking to points that they thought were true, or probably true. Such was not the case here. I don't know how you could be a credible Sec of State with what has transpired here.

There is no evidence that this is the case.

Also interesting that I'm sure you thought Condi was a credible Secretary of State. (FWIW I think she was but I'm not a grandstanding Republican who has sour grapes that the Benghazi non-scandal didn't swing the election for Romney and now has to justify it by crucifying Susan Rice). :thumbup:

Manhattan Buckeye;1327253 wrote:" 4. Again, like Iraq, this was a massive intelligence blunder, sad, but it happens. The thing is to learn from it and move on."

No, the person gets fired. Why hasn't she been fired? Are you that big of a DEM lickspittle? A massive intelligence blunder (per your words)...are there no consequences? Wow, sign me up for a federal government job....make a massive intelligence blunder? No biggie, keep your house in Loudon County and your taxpayer pension? I don't think so. It isn't just about being sad, actions (and in this case incompetent actions) have consequences. Rice should be gone.

I mean why should Rice be gone...for justifiably relying on CIA intelligence...which you claim she should've refuted on the air because of her gut feelings/intuition. lol.

Perhaps there are people who should be fired but it isn't Amb. Rice. Except in the minds of people who are butthurt and exaggerate.

Manhattan Buckeye;1327403 wrote:The question is easy because it was so obvious. Forget other "political" precedents, the entire situation is more reminiscent of the Duke Lacrosse case.

I remember the day ESPN first reported it in '06, one of my best friends was visiting over (incredibly smart guy, Harvard undergrad, UVA law review, now a partner at a V-15 NYC firm) - we looked at each other and had the same reaction. Complete BS. Yet that didn't stop the mainstream media to buy into Nifong's narrative, the NYT to repeatedly distort facts, a legal case to go on for over a year that should have been over in 2 days, etc. Res Ipsa Loquitur. Any story that incredible is likely non-credible.

Same thing with Rice, although not reacting with my friend but rather my wife. When the Obama administration's initial response was non-credible because, you know, we aren't stupid. Look who started this thread. It was a ridiculous story from the beginning. Do you think the attackers even have internet access, let alone aware of a random youtube video - and have the amazing organizational capabilities they had. It was a ridiculous story and Rice shouldn't have parroted it.

If I was a young ADA under Nifong, I would like to think I had the integrity to have stood up to him or at least not prostitute myself to forward a narrative that I knew was wrong.

Rice isn't a young ADA, she's our UN rep, and she should have known better. She needs to go, and you should expect more from our public servants. If it isn't lying, it is GROSS INCOMPETENCE.

Should we discuss the follies of relying on your intuition as your epistemology and the times it has lead you astray? (i.e. "No way Obama wins Virginia," Dating Girls who prefer copious amounts of BBC, etc.)

Yep, she should've just ignored CIA intelligence because she just knows better. LoL.

(And you call Condi Rice the "smart" Rice who didn't ignore bad intelligence while lambasting Susan Rice for not ignoring bad intelligence. LoL.)

Manhattan Buckeye;1328238 wrote:Perhaps you aren't an NBA fan. Aside from Gatz' post which made no sense, there was no reason to have a gorilla in the picture - it didn't add anything. But to the point you probably missed how some NBA players (most notably Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Patrick Ewing and Oliver Miller) have complained about the Phoenix Suns' gorilla mascot as being "racist."

I don't think it is, but I still don't understand the picture, or anything else Gatz posts. Fitzgerald needs to take back his character.

So you're connecting a goofy internet meme to NBA players complaining about the Suns' mascot and complaining said internet meme is racist?

Seems spurious.