unique_67 wrote: It is factually incorret to say that there are not acts of terrorism being committed by "Christians" throughout the world.

Christian terrorism in India, Uganda and Indonesia
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1194586172


Christian Terrorism in Northeast India
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_terrorism_in_northeast_india.htm

..."Here on this page you will find several reports and news items on the shocking amount of terrorism caused by the Christian militant groups in Northeast India, how they operate, where they get their funds, and the thousands of people who have already died because of it. It is primarily due to those who want to make the whole region into a separate Christian state at the expense of those who would prefer to follow their own indigenous and Hindu cultures."....

Christian Terrorism
http://www.muslim-responses.com/christian_terrorism_
On this page we Shall document terrorism that has been carried out by Christians in the past, and present. While documenting Christian terrorism we shall also examine Christian double-standards that they often use.

Wow, weak. Very, very weak.

Obscure reports from obscure sources. No mainline Christian religions (Methodists, Episcopalians, Catholics) out there bombing and maiming folks in the same way Islamic "believers" are doing.

Another false equivalence bites the dust.

And my comment about logic failure had to do with your reasoning, which I clearly explained in my post.

Writerbuckeye wrote:

Wow, weak. Very, very weak.

Obscure reports from obscure sources. No mainline Christian religions (Methodists, Episcopalians, Catholics) out there bombing and maiming folks in the same way Islamic "believers" are doing.

Another false equivalence bites the dust.

And my comment about logic failure had to do with your reasoning, which I clearly explained in my post.

I find it funny you try to discredit the stories by claiming they are obscure or they aren't the right denomination. You do realize there are many denominations in Islam also right? Including the fanatics who have warped the Qur'an to fit their beliefs.

Would one of the worst humanitarian disasters in Africa led by Joseph Kony be good enough for you? Kony wants to establish a state based on the 10 Commandments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kony

Writerbuckeye wrote:
Wow, weak. Very, very weak.

Obscure reports from obscure sources. No mainline Christian religions (Methodists, Episcopalians, Catholics) out there bombing and maiming folks in the same way Islamic "believers" are doing.

Another false equivalence bites the dust.

And my comment about logic failure had to do with your reasoning, which I clearly explained in my post.

Weak? At least Un ique provided some examples. They're weak because you don't agree with them. Please provide evidence to support your argument as Unique has.

You are just making unsubstantiated remarks.

You say that no mainline Christian church is committing those acts, well neither is any Muslim Mosque. It is a minority that committ these acts.

It's like obnoxious sports fans, they're generally the minority, but they're the loudest and others associtate all fans of said team with the obnoxious ones.

Here is an interview with Kony that was conducted by the BBC, and the other link provides a profile of Joseph Kony from 2005.

Joseph Kony, LRA leader, uganda - worlds first ever interview
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3358543972674478503&ei=JB4CS8unF4fslQfKmqj1CQ&q=joseph+kony+videos#



Profile: Joseph Kony
A former Catholic altar boy from northern Uganda, Joseph Kony has waged war against the government of President Yoweri Museveni for almost two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4320858.stm

Southern Sudan: LRA rebels resume reign of fear, several people killed
Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) rebels have resumed attacks on villages in southern Sudan killing several civilians in the last four days.

Monday 16 November 2009
http://en.afrik.com/article16476.html

The Rescue of Joseph Kony's Child Soldiers
http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/1817/The-Rescue-of-Joseph-Kony-s-Child-Soldiers

Islam: The Religion of Peace (and a whole lot of bodies)

Too many to list so this website does it for me.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Here's the list...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Writer,

I have friends who are believers in Islam, one of whom I just spoke with last week. And, they ALL deplore the actions of Hasan, the acts of 9-11-2001 and other acts of terrorism carried out by those who are perverting the true teachings of Islam.

But, for some reason, you seem to be hell bent on proving and believing that the individuals/groups carrying out these atrocious acts are actually following the true teachings of Islam, rather than realizing these are groups/individuals with their own warped view of the world, and a misguided view of the true teachings of Islam.

Also, there are plenty of leaders within Islam who have come out stating their disgust with the actions of Hasan. The only people who support the actions of Hasan within the Islamic faith are people that have been and continue to pervert the teachings of Muhammad and Islam. And, ALL religions have people that have their own distorted view of the world, the religion they follow and the god/gods in whom they claim to believe.

Writerbuckeye wrote: You don't need to be part of a cell or connected with anyone else to be a terrorist.

This was an act of terrorism by a man who was answering the call of his religion.

His act is not an aberration in the sense that it has happened too frequently by extremist members of this same religion.

At what point do we start calling a spade a spade again in this country?

Okay Let's say he's working alone.... That's what they said.... Bottom Line still an act of terrorism... There is no other way to paint the picture....

The Imam who is said to be praising Hasan and with whom Hasan is reported to have had an association is living in Yemen, and he is NOT a an Imam at a mosque in the USA. He is a radical individual who has a perverted belief system, and who hides behind the Islamic faith to justify atrocities such as the Fort Hood shootings. That is quite different that the stance being taken by mainline Imam's and members and followers of Islam in the USA.

U.S. Muslims Condemn Attack at Fort Hood
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS277121+05-Nov-2009+PRN20091105


Muslim leaders: Max penalty for Fort Hood shooter
http://www.freep.com/article/20091113/NEWS05/91113019/?imw=Y

Islamic Group Raises Money for Fort Hood Victims
http://www.tonic.com/article/islamic-group-raises-money-fort-hood-victims/

ASMA condemns violent acts at Fort Hood and offers condolences
http://asmasociety.org/emails/asma/20091106-forthood.html

MPAC Supports Muslim American-Led Fund For Ft. Hood Victims' Families
http://www.mpac.org/article.php?id=960

Writerbuckeye wrote: Islam: The Religion of Peace (and a whole lot of bodies)

Too many to list so this website does it for me.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

And you call the sites Unique posted, 'obscure'? That site obviously has an agenda.

Nothing like making a blanket statement on an entire religion. That is not only irresponsible, it is prejudiced and a bigot-like statement.

Do you know any Islamic people, Writer? Or do you truly believe the entire religion and all of its followers are terroritsts?

pooter wrote:

Writerbuckeye wrote: You don't need to be part of a cell or connected with anyone else to be a terrorist.

This was an act of terrorism by a man who was answering the call of his religion.

His act is not an aberration in the sense that it has happened too frequently by extremist members of this same religion.

At what point do we start calling a spade a spade again in this country?

Okay Let's say he's working alone.... That's what they said.... Bottom Line still an act of terrorism... There is no other way to paint the picture....

Couldn't it be said that ANY violent crime, including rape and armed robbery are acts of terror? I mean, if one is the victim of such a crime, there they are most likely in a state of terror while the crime is being committed, and these acts cause mental/emotional scars that stay wiht the victims long after the incident has ended.

There was a shooting at an office building in Orlando, Fl on Oct 5th, which killed one person and wounded 5 others. But, because the individual is not of Arabic decent and is not a believer in Islam, there are no cries that this was in any way an act of terrorism. It is clear that the individual in this case acted on his own, but why is he not accused of committing an act of terrorism? Not only did he terrorise the individuals in the office building, but the entire city of Orlando was on edge for 3 hours until the suspect was finally captured. And, something tells me if he was of Arab decent and/or found to be a believer in Islam, then this would be described as an act of terrorism, rather than just an abhorrent crime carried out by a lone individual. :huh:


Suspect in Orlando office shooting had money woes
Nov 6, 2009
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_orlando_office_shooting

"A man who was so deep in debt that he did not have the money to visit his son 30 minutes away opened fire Friday at the engineering firm that fired him two years ago, killing one person and wounding five, authorities said.

As officers led a handcuffed Jason Rodriguez into a police station, a reporter asked the divorced 40-year-old why he had attacked his former colleagues. "Because they left me to rot," said Rodriguez, who recently told a bankruptcy judge he was making less than $30,000 a year at a Subway sandwich shop and owed nearly $90,000.

The shooting on the eighth floor of an office tower paralyzed downtown Orlando for three hours. Police quickly tracked Rodriguez to his mother's home, spotted him through a window and ordered him to come out."...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorist
Terrorism has become the systematic weapon of a war that knows no borders or seldom has a face.

We put the face with it, as we often label everything in this Great, FREE country of ours!!!! We are wrong when it comes to huge crimes when we try them simply as a crime no matter what the race, religion, or agenda... We need to be as adamant and persistent as we are against trying "terrorist".... Then and only then will we see a decrease in crime.... See America has gotten to the point where we want to play the blame game... The sad thing is it works.... We need to get back to accountability.... Crime=Time... Once that happens we'll see a change in all acts of terrorism.... From Lil Johnny terrorizing on the play ground to Hasan gunning people down...

Well known columnist Christopher Hitchens has a pretty good column stating why he believes this was an act of terrorism.

http://www.slate.com/id/2235760/pagenum/all/

Writerbuckeye wrote: Well known columnist Christopher Hitchens has a pretty good column stating why he believes this was an act of terrorism.

http://www.slate.com/id/2235760/pagenum/all/

Mr. Hitchens does not seem to fully grasp what terrorism actually is. Terrorism is an act that is intended to scare citizens into forcing the government to make a political change. What political change was Hasan trying to bring about with his attacks?

eersandbeers wrote:

Writerbuckeye wrote: Well known columnist Christopher Hitchens has a pretty good column stating why he believes this was an act of terrorism.

http://www.slate.com/id/2235760/pagenum/all/

Mr. Hitchens does not seem to fully grasp what terrorism actually is. Terrorism is an act that is intended to scare citizens into forcing the government to make a political change. What political change was Hasan trying to bring about with his attacks?

You don't think his act was a political as well as a religious statement?

I certainly do -- and I'd bet most people would agree. Especially based on what we're finding out about the guy.

You can make a political statement as a terrorist without expecting it to immediately cause change.

I'm sure Hasan wants the US out of both Afghanistan and Iraq. If you've read his comments, it would sure seem to be his ultimate goal. Perhaps he thought killing soldiers slated to go to those countries would slow down or stop that process. He did pick an area where soldiers who were departing were concentrated.

You know what I wish?

I wish that the leaders of the Islam faith from all over the world would start publicly and consistantly rebuke this kind of activities. Say it to the camera, say it at your establishments, say it to the newspaper man, blog it on the web, say it at your rallies. Christian leaders do this and so can they. I remember after the Oklahoma bombing, the local news had a blitz of Christian leaders condemning that and saying that they do not condone this behavior. If this does happen already then the media is really dropping the ball.
I really do think that many people would feel differently if they saw more condemnation from the leaders of Islam.

CenterBHSFan wrote: You know what I wish?

I wish that the leaders of the Islam faith from all over the world would start publicly and consistantly rebuke this kind of activities. Say it to the camera, say it at your establishments, say it to the newspaper man, blog it on the web, say it at your rallies. Christian leaders do this and so can they. I remember after the Oklahoma bombing, the local news had a blitz of Christian leaders condemning that and saying that they do not condone this behavior. If this does happen already then the media is really dropping the ball.
I really do think that many people would feel differently if they saw more condemnation from the leaders of Islam.

I just read an article in the Toledo Blade written by a very prominent Islamic man in the area. He said the same thing you are saying. He said that the majority of Islam needs to stand up against this violence.

Now I can't say why they don't (most likely out of fear), but I do agree they need to stand up before they allow their religion to be taken over by the extremists.

Look how some on this thread already view the entire religion of Islam as a terrorist religion.

I am not a muslim, but my father's side of the family is and I was raised muslim (left the religion because of my dislike of ALL organized religions). Never in my youth was I ever taught anything in religion school to hate other religions or that all need to be converted. This is totally and completely false. It is a statement made by people with an agenda in the media (mainly the far right wing).

CenterBHSFan wrote: You know what I wish?

I wish that the leaders of the Islam faith from all over the world would start publicly and consistantly rebuke this kind of activities. Say it to the camera, say it at your establishments, say it to the newspaper man, blog it on the web, say it at your rallies. Christian leaders do this and so can they. I remember after the Oklahoma bombing, the local news had a blitz of Christian leaders condemning that and saying that they do not condone this behavior. If this does happen already then the media is really dropping the ball.
I really do think that many people would feel differently if they saw more condemnation from the leaders of Islam.

It does happen. But it doesn't get much coverage, and i would agree that it doesn't happen enough, though.

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

Check out this page.

Even tons of pictures/accounts of Muslims throughout the world expressing condolences and grief for Americans during 9/11, and other victims of terrorist acts done in the name of their faith.

Do your research people. Might change your views, a little bit, and give you some hope as well.

Pretty much all the major Muslim groups and associations in North America have strongly condemned the terrorist acts, calling them "un-Muslim," etc., etc.

A simple Google search leads you to all sorts of links from some of the most learned Muslims in the world, Muslim scholars, etc., writing about and talking about how Islam does not promote or tolerate these sorts of crimes.

A list of statements from Islamic leaders from around the world condemning terrorism.

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Hell, there are quotes in there from leaders of other "radical" Islamic organizations condemning the acts. Take heart in what is said there.

Heck, i've even found quotes from American soldiers understanding and realizing that this isn't Islam, and having met many Muslims in Iraq/Afghanistan who have expressed condolences, sympathy, and gone to great lengths that what the terrorists do is not "Islamic."

Cbus,

My point was, I guess, that we shouldn't (or we don't want to) "search google" to see this. It should be in our faces in the media when these things happen.
Nobody had to do a search to know what the Catholic church thought after the Oklahoma bombing, for example. Firstly, because the church made a ready statement. Secondly, because the media put it out there.
That's all.
I think the media is dropping the ball here.

CenterBHSFan wrote: Cbus,

My point was, I guess, that we shouldn't (or we don't want to) "search google" to see this. It should be in our faces in the media when these things happen.
Nobody had to do a search to know what the Catholic church thought after the Oklahoma bombing, for example. Firstly, because the church made a ready statement. Secondly, because the media put it out there.
That's all.
I think the media is dropping the ball here.

Your last statement says it all. The media is whom most depend on for information. They'd rather not have to (gasp) put some effort into looking info. up. Therefore, if the media doesn't report it, it ain't true. Causes alot of ignorant opinions to be formed, as made evident by some on this forum.

CenterBHSFan wrote: Cbus,

My point was, I guess, that we shouldn't (or we don't want to) "search google" to see this. It should be in our faces in the media when these things happen.
Nobody had to do a search to know what the Catholic church thought after the Oklahoma bombing, for example. Firstly, because the church made a ready statement. Secondly, because the media put it out there.
That's all.
I think the media is dropping the ball here.

Agreed. The media is dropping the ball, not the Muslims who are condemning the attacks.

cbus4life wrote:

CenterBHSFan wrote: Cbus,

My point was, I guess, that we shouldn't (or we don't want to) "search google" to see this. It should be in our faces in the media when these things happen.
Nobody had to do a search to know what the Catholic church thought after the Oklahoma bombing, for example. Firstly, because the church made a ready statement. Secondly, because the media put it out there.
That's all.
I think the media is dropping the ball here.

Agreed. The media is dropping the ball, not the Muslims who are condemning the attacks.

It is the Media that keeps this country divided... They only report what they want... when they want... and how they want... with their own opinions... Each and every news source is guilty of this... They all have their own political agendas... Doesn't matter which side of the fence they sit on...