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Measure of dumbness, stupid and crazy...

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FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

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8,651 posts
Jul 18, 2012 12:26 AM
Red Rum;1227289 wrote:

I think it can be difficult at times to judge intelligence.

take Stephen Hawking for example, he arguably has the most brilliant mind on the planet yet he can't wipe his own ass or communicate without the aid of an electronic device.

If I didn't know what he looked like already, I would easily mistake him for a full blown retard.

rushing to judgement on someones skills based on a set of hard rules (GPA, survival skills, grammar, etc.) seems rather short sighted.

but the hard reality is sometimes people have to make a judgement call for various reasons and qualified, intelligent people can be overlooked.
Great post. Sometimes you have to make snap judgments of people, like when you're hiring someone, but I think most of the time that's a mistake. I also think that's why referrals/networking are great for getting a job.
Jul 18, 2012 12:26am
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

Senior Member

8,651 posts
Jul 18, 2012 12:33 AM
fan_from_texas;1227375 wrote:
IQ scores track pretty well with what we consider "success," even if it's an imperfect correlation.
I think that depends on how you define success. There are plenty of people who have a lot of money, but are on their third or fourth wives with kids who hate them and nothing but money to define who they are. (I think that's why you put success in quotes and i'm sure there are plenty of poor people who have made poor decisions in their lives) To me it's about more than money or things.
Jul 18, 2012 12:33am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Jul 18, 2012 9:36 AM
ts1227;1227395 wrote:Some people do possess a large amount of street smarts, but the ones who actually use that line are usually full blown retards in all aspects of life... they aren't even pretend smart.
There are definitely people who are street smart, but by and large, I'm willing to bet that they'd do just fine on an IQ test. Grades are one thing, but they can be influenced by effort. A less intelligent person could work their balls off and get better grades than a genius who just doesn't care.
ts1227;1227395 wrote:If they want to sound even dumber, they pull out the "I went to the school of hard knocks" card, which roughly translates to "I can't even count to potato".
Oh I just want to pat these people on the head and ask them, "Aw, did they knock you around at that school because you're dumb?"
FatHobbit;1227592 wrote:I also think that's why referrals/networking are great for getting a job.

This. Reps.
Jul 18, 2012 9:36am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
Jul 18, 2012 9:40 AM
Ive never relly thought about what I consider stupid. I think I'd consider bad grammar as a trait for it. It doesn't matter how smart you are if you cannot effectively communicate your point.

Just because you are say, an accountant. That doesn't mean you are smart. It means you have been trained to be a professional in that field.

I don't know if I would ever consider a hard-working, physical labor man as smart. If they were smart, they wouldn't be breaking their back for a living. Just like the accountant, they may excel in their field because they have been trained to.

I would consider somebody smart if they are a well rounded individual knowledgeable of many different areas. What do you know...a purpose for general Ed classes in college maybe?
Jul 18, 2012 9:40am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

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Jul 18, 2012 9:47 AM
Pick6;1227683 wrote:I would consider somebody smart if they are a well rounded individual knowledgeable of many different areas. What do you know...a purpose for general Ed classes in college maybe?
MF Reps!
Jul 18, 2012 9:47am
F

fan_from_texas

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2,693 posts
Jul 18, 2012 10:25 AM
FatHobbit;1227597 wrote:I think that depends on how you define success. There are plenty of people who have a lot of money, but are on their third or fourth wives with kids who hate them and nothing but money to define who they are. (I think that's why you put success in quotes and i'm sure there are plenty of poor people who have made poor decisions in their lives) To me it's about more than money or things.
Agreed. It's tough to define "success," and more germane to this topic, it's tough to define "smart." That said, IQ is a pretty good measure of how smart someone is, and IQ is also a pretty good predictor of GPAs. Undoubtedly some smart people have low GPAs, and some morons do well, but I think that's more because GPA is a combination of aptitude, work ethic, and comparison to those around you--if you're surrounded by morons, it isn't as hard to be at the top of your class. Obviously, GPA isn't a perfect predictor of IQ.

But I do think that in a cognitive profession, some combination of GPA/school reputation gives a pretty good idea of whether someone has the minimal competence necessary to succeed. That doesn't mean they're going to be successful, just that they have one of the basic tools.
Jul 18, 2012 10:25am
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fan_from_texas

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2,693 posts
Jul 18, 2012 10:27 AM
Pick6;1227683 wrote:I don't know if I would ever consider a hard-working, physical labor man as smart. If they were smart, they wouldn't be breaking their back for a living. Just like the accountant, they may excel in their field because they have been trained to.
This. People can be successful without being smart, and they can be smart without being successful. Intelligence is, by definition, a cognitive thing: Michael Phelps is a great athlete, but that doesn't make him smart. Just a great athlete.
Jul 18, 2012 10:27am
Belly35's avatar

Belly35

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Jul 18, 2012 11:17 AM
Pick6 wrote:Ive never relly thought about what I consider stupid. I think I'd consider bad grammar as a trait for it.
Pick6 wrote:Ive never relly thought about what I consider stupid. I think I'd consider bad grammar as a trait for it.
You misspelled .. (I've and really ) so are we to assume you to be stupid ..I think not.</SPAN>

The internet superficial intellectual trolls judge&#8217;s people via the written word (spell, grammar, structure) without knowing the individual true intelligence.... that is wrong. </SPAN>

I have a friend who can&#8217;t do math .. simply put can&#8217;t make change. However she a masterful writer. So am I to assume based on your trait because I know she can&#8217;t do math or make change she is stupid? </SPAN>
Jul 18, 2012 11:17am
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

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14,946 posts
Jul 18, 2012 11:50 AM
Belly35;1227741 wrote:You misspelled .. (I've and really ) so are we to assume you to be stupid ..I think not.</SPAN>

The internet superficial intellectual trolls judge&#8217;s people via the written word (spell, grammar, structure) without knowing the individual true intelligence.... that is wrong. </SPAN>

I have a friend who can&#8217;t do math .. simply put can&#8217;t make change. However she a masterful writer. So am I to assume based on your trait because I know she can&#8217;t do math or make change she is stupid? </SPAN>
Haha. My mistake for the typos as I am typing from my iPhone.(should get my laptop today yay). I would say that if your friend cannot do basic addition and subtraction, then she isn't very smart. She is creative because she is a writer. Doesn't make her smart IMO, just good at that profession.
Jul 18, 2012 11:50am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Jul 18, 2012 11:57 AM
Belly, you have a handicap. That doesn't discredit your intellect, IMO. Not being able to count is not dyslexia.
Jul 18, 2012 11:57am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

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Jul 18, 2012 12:06 PM
Pick6;1227778 wrote:Haha. My mistake for the typos as I am typing from my iPhone.(should get my laptop today yay). I would say that if your friend cannot do basic addition and subtraction, then she isn't very smart. She is creative because she is a writer. Doesn't make her smart IMO, just good at that profession.
This is accurate, I think. She might be very successful, creative, and incredibly good at what she does.
Jul 18, 2012 12:06pm
Belly35's avatar

Belly35

Elderly Intellectual

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Jul 18, 2012 12:17 PM
Pick6;1227778 wrote:Haha. My mistake for the typos as I am typing from my iPhone.(should get my laptop today yay). I would say that if your friend cannot do basic addition and subtraction, then she isn't very smart. She is creative because she is a writer. Doesn't make her smart IMO, just good at that profession.
You are aware that there are learning dyslexia types&#8230; reading, spelling, grammar and phonics is just some of the major types. Math/ numbers are another type.</SPAN>
Poor writing skills doesn&#8217;t make one stupid or less intelligent ... that is not a trait </SPAN>

Part of the equation of smart vs stupid &#8230; intelligent vs dumb &#8230;. Successful vs failure is &#8220;Motivation&#8221; &#8220;what one does with what little they have and can use it to the maximum&#8221; That is smart, intelligent and successful&#8230; </SPAN>
Jul 18, 2012 12:17pm
Belly35's avatar

Belly35

Elderly Intellectual

9,716 posts
Jul 18, 2012 12:22 PM
ernest_t_bass;1227787 wrote:Belly, you have a handicap. That doesn't discredit your intellect, IMO. Not being able to count is not dyslexia.



Human development 101 paper:
Dyslexia is characterized by decoding, encoding, memory and processing problems with letters, words and numbers. Dyscalculia often only affects the decoding and encoding, memory and processing of numbers. Researchers and authors commonly use the term "math dyslexia" to describe dyscalculia as being "like dyslexia but in math." Dyslexia can result in the same types of errors as dyscalculia, so it is important not to disregard the methods and successes of strategies for mastering mathematics by dyslexics
Jul 18, 2012 12:22pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

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Jul 18, 2012 12:23 PM
Belly35;1227803 wrote:You are aware that there are learning dyslexia types&#8230; reading, spelling, grammar and phonics is just some of the major types. Math/ numbers are another type.
Poor writing skills doesn&#8217;t make one stupid or less intelligent ... that is not a trait

Part of the equation of smart vs stupid &#8230; intelligent vs dumb &#8230;. Successful vs failure is &#8220;Motivation&#8221; &#8220;what one does with what little they have and can use it to the maximum&#8221; That is smart, intelligent and successful&#8230;
Actually, the inability to deal with numbers is called Dyscalculia, and is not actually Dyslexia.

Poor writing skills can be an indicator of a lack of intelligence, but I agree that it isn't definitive.

Maximizing one's resources can often be out of need or felt need. Hard work is just that: hard work. It isn't intelligence, but I do agree that it can lead to success. Success and intelligence aren't synonymous, either. A relative of mine is a perfect example. He has an IQ in the 160 range, and he works as a security guard. That's underachievement. Doesn't diminish his intelligence. Just diminishes his success.
Jul 18, 2012 12:23pm
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

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Jul 18, 2012 2:29 PM
O-Trap;1227810 wrote:A relative of mine is a perfect example. He has an IQ in the 160 range, and he works as a security guard. That's underachievement. Doesn't diminish his intelligence. Just diminishes his success.
Perhaps he has a different idea of success than you and he is perfectly content to be a security guard? Maybe he's so smart he knows something we don't. ;)
Jul 18, 2012 2:29pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

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Jul 18, 2012 2:38 PM
FatHobbit;1227903 wrote:Perhaps he has a different idea of success than you and he is perfectly content to be a security guard? Maybe he's so smart he knows something we don't. ;)
Perhaps. It's wasted potential, but he might indeed be happy.
Jul 18, 2012 2:38pm
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thePITman

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3,867 posts
Jul 18, 2012 4:25 PM
There can be dumb people that are really smart in certain areas. Or smart people that are really dumb in certain areas. It's kind of relative.

But in general, it's something you can gather over time about somebody... I think it's a combination of how you talk and handle yourself around people, how you think on your feet, how you solve problems, how you achieve your goals, and how successful you've been.
Jul 18, 2012 4:25pm
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fan_from_texas

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2,693 posts
Jul 18, 2012 6:35 PM
FatHobbit;1227903 wrote:Perhaps he has a different idea of success than you and he is perfectly content to be a security guard? Maybe he's so smart he knows something we don't. ;)
Nah, a dude with a 160 IQ who works as a security guard isn't successful. Dude is a failure. His idea of success is wrong.
Jul 18, 2012 6:35pm
BRF's avatar

BRF

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Jul 18, 2012 6:54 PM
fan_from_texas;1228238 wrote:Nah, a dude with a 160 IQ who works as a security guard isn't successful.
Right. That doesn't make much sense.

UNLESS....he is divorced and intentionally under employing himself to pay less support!
Jul 18, 2012 6:54pm
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fan_from_texas

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2,693 posts
Jul 18, 2012 6:59 PM
BRF;1228245 wrote:Right. That doesn't make much sense.

UNLESS....he is divorced and intentionally under employing himself to pay less support!
Reps.
Jul 18, 2012 6:59pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

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Jul 18, 2012 8:38 PM
fan_from_texas;1228238 wrote:Nah, a dude with a 160 IQ who works as a security guard isn't successful. Dude is a failure. His idea of success is wrong.
Eh, he's happy, I think. If you've ever seen the show "The Big Bang Theory," he's basically the tall, lanky guy ... just about 30 years later.
Jul 18, 2012 8:38pm
tcarrier32's avatar

tcarrier32

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1,497 posts
Jul 18, 2012 8:51 PM
fan_from_texas;1228238 wrote:Nah, a dude with a 160 IQ who works as a security guard isn't successful. Dude is a failure. His idea of success is wrong.
lol.

Sorry, but the parameters for being called intelligent are far too complex to up and call someone a failure for their choice of profession.
I don't know the perfect formula for figuring out how to relatively rank intelligence, but I know for damn sure it wouldn't have much to do with profession. Too many lazy people are intelligent, and for some reason a bunch of people on here are trying to work in all these different traits that might show implications of intelligence, like work ethic. Sorry, but intelligence and motivation are two very different things.

Your intelligence is going to be most evident through your interactions with society, but that doesn't mean someone who has communication problems is unintelligent.

Let's have more semantic discussion on here, good fun.
Jul 18, 2012 8:51pm
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DeyDurkie5

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11,324 posts
Jul 19, 2012 1:04 AM
Go fuck yourselves
Jul 19, 2012 1:04am
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ernest_t_bass

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24,984 posts
Jul 19, 2012 5:50 AM
DeyDurkie5;1228592 wrote:Go fuck yourselves

I'm impressed you made it this late, with the day drinking and all.
Jul 19, 2012 5:50am
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fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Jul 19, 2012 2:34 PM
tcarrier32;1228335 wrote:Sorry, but the parameters for being called intelligent are far too complex to up and call someone a failure for their choice of profession.

I don't know the perfect formula for figuring out how to relatively rank intelligence, but I know for damn sure it wouldn't have much to do with profession. Too many lazy people are intelligent, and for some reason a bunch of people on here are trying to work in all these different traits that might show implications of intelligence, like work ethic. Sorry, but intelligence and motivation are two very different things.
To clarify, I'm not saying that the security guard is stupid, just that having a genius-level IQ and working as a security guard is not, under virtually any circumstances I can find reasonably plausible, "success."

It's more that I think some professions have a baseline level of intelligence that is necessary to do the job. E.g., there are smart ditch diggers, and there are stupid doctors, but I'm willing to take a random group of doctors as smarter than a random group of ditch diggers any day of the week.

And, yes, I agree that intelligence and work ethic are different things (and from an income and/or success standpoint, work ethic is probably the more important of the two).
Jul 19, 2012 2:34pm