reclegend22;1230297 wrote:There is absolutely reasonable doubt that Paterno is guilty of what he is accused. Not only do the emails presented in the Freeh Report offer virtually no context as to what they are in reference -- in one email Louis Freeh just guesses, just straight up guesses, that the subject of the message is the 1998 investigation -- but none of them are actually from Paterno himself. We don't even know if Curley or Shultz had actually talked with Paterno regarding these matters, or if they were simply name dropping "coach" as a way to get things accomplished quicker (this is just one possible scenario.)

The point is, there are too many gaping holes in the report to factually conclude that Paterno was a culprit. I'll say it again. The concept that Joe Paterno masterminded the whitewashing of a child sex operation is idiotic.

Beyond a reasonable to America beside jay and diehard acolytes of the legend\
“ Working exceptionally hard in a very short amount of time for an investigation of this magnitude, my team conducted over 430 interviews of various individuals that included current and former University employees from various departments across the University, as well as current and past Trustees, former coaches, athletes and others in the community. We also analyzed over 3.5 million emails and other documents. The evidence found by our investigators included critical, contemporaneous correspondence from the times of these events. Our investigative team made independent discovery of critical 1998 and 2001 emails – the most important evidence in this investigation. “
“In critical written correspondence that we uncovered on March 20th of this year,
we see evidence of their proposed plan of action in February 2001 that included
reporting allegations about Sandusky to the authorities. After Mr. Curley consulted with Mr. Paterno, however, they changed the plan and decided not to make a report to the authorities. Their failure to protect the February 9, 2001 child victim, or make attempts to identify him, created a dangerous situation for other unknown, unsuspecting young boys who were lured to the Penn State campus and football games by Sandusky and victimized repeatedly by him.
The evidence shows that these four men also knew about a 1998 criminal
investigation of Sandusky relating to suspected sexual misconduct with a young boy in a Penn State football locker room shower. Again, they showed no concern about that victim. The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s. At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted thementire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley also failed to alert the Board of Trustees about the 1998 investigation or take any further action against Mr.Sandusky. None of them even spoke to Sandusky about his conduct. In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity.”
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf

I will stop once the eventual trials of Schultz and Curley reveal more of the story and the context of the emails presented in the Freeh Report. Until that day, those emails prove NOTHING other than pure speculation. Give me direct proof where Paterno himself discusses the investigation or orders a coverup. It's just not there.

As I have said, Paterno may turn out to have been behind concealing the actions of Sandusky. But I will defend him until that day.

rl22, in the end, you weren't there. We could give you proof. But, then it would be required to meet a new level of authority for you to believe it. And even then, you'd demand higher proof. Until you traveled back in time to witness JoePa hold a kid down while Sandusky railed him.

Until then, you'd never accept 'proof'. So, there's no reason to demand it. Live in your fantasy world where the diety whose ground he walked on is worshiped didn't know his right hand man who was at the top of his game mysteriously retired to run a children's charity rather than make MILLIONS of dollars coaching there or elsewhere, AFTER already being implicated in some sort of shenanigans with a boy in '98.

I don't know how that alone isn't enough for you.

None are so blind as those who refuse see.

Sykotyk;1230387 wrote:rl22, in the end, you weren't there. We could give you proof. But, then it would be required to meet a new level of authority for you to believe it. And even then, you'd demand higher proof. Until you traveled back in time to witness JoePa hold a kid down while Sandusky railed him.

If I could just get a flux capacitor, then I could be sure.

Sykotyk wrote: Live in your fantasy world where the diety whose ground he walked on is worshiped didn't know his right hand man who was at the top of his game mysteriously retired to run a children's charity rather than make MILLIONS of dollars coaching there or elsewhere, AFTER already being implicated in some sort of shenanigans with a boy in '98.

Did you not see in the Freeh Report where Louis Freeh himself even concludes based on all of the evidence that he found that Jerry Sandusky's retirement had nothing at all do to with the 1998 investigation? You know, that report that everyone is reading as if it were an encycopledia.

Freeh determined that Sandusky retired because of a) the special retirement package that the state of Pennsylvania offered at the time, b) Paterno notifying Sandusky that Paterno would not be retiring for at least five more years and that Sandusky was never going to be head coach at PSU, and c) Sandusky wanting to devote more time to the Second Mile (which makes complete sense in light of everything that's occurred).

Those are the real reasons. Not the investigation. That's simply not factual.

Freeh’s report found about the 1998 accusation and 1999 retirement:
The evidence shows that these four men(President, Vice President, AD and Paterno) also knew about a 1998 criminal investigation of Sandusky relating to suspected sexual misconduct with a young boy in a Penn State football locker room shower. Again, they showed no concern about that victim. The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s. At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted thementire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley also failed to alert the Board of Trustees about the 1998 investigation or take any further action against Mr.Sandusky. None of them even spoke to Sandusky about his conduct. In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity.”
[URL="file://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=0684ce2837c054d34aab4a7a8850c3ac&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohiochatter.com%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3F35356-Freeh-Report-assigns-blame-to-Joe-Paterno-other-Penn-State-officials-for-Jerry-Sandu%2Fpage4&v=1&libid=1342919384162&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefreehreportonpsu.com%2FPress_Release_07_12_12.pdf&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohiochatter.com%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3F35356-Freeh-Report-assigns-blame-to-Joe-Paterno-other-Penn-State-officials-for-Jerry-Sandu%2Fpage5&title=Freeh%20Report%20assigns%20blame%20to%20Joe%20Paterno%2C%20other%20Penn%20State%20officials%20for%20Jerry%20Sandu&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefreehreportonpsu.com%2FPress_Release_07_12_12.pdf&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13429197383614"]http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf[/URL]
　

isadore;1230720 wrote:Freeh’s report found about the 1998 accusation and 1999 retirement:
The evidence shows that these four men(President, Vice President, AD and Paterno) also knew about a 1998 criminal investigation of Sandusky relating to suspected sexual misconduct with a young boy in a Penn State football locker room shower. Again, they showed no concern about that victim. The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s. At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted thementire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley also failed to alert the Board of Trustees about the 1998 investigation or take any further action against Mr.Sandusky. None of them even spoke to Sandusky about his conduct. In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity.”
[URL="file://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=0684ce2837c054d34aab4a7a8850c3ac&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohiochatter.com%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3F35356-Freeh-Report-assigns-blame-to-Joe-Paterno-other-Penn-State-officials-for-Jerry-Sandu%2Fpage4&v=1&libid=1342919384162&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefreehreportonpsu.com%2FPress_Release_07_12_12.pdf&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohiochatter.com%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3F35356-Freeh-Report-assigns-blame-to-Joe-Paterno-other-Penn-State-officials-for-Jerry-Sandu%2Fpage5&title=Freeh Report assigns blame to Joe Paterno%2C other Penn State officials for Jerry Sandu&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefreehreportonpsu.com%2FPress_Release_07_12_12.pdf&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13429197383614"]http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf[/URL]
　

None of that proves anything about why Sandusky retired in 1999.

Also, please show me exactly what piece of evidence shows that Paterno knew about the investigation and then show me the one where Paterno ordered the coverup.

lol none are so blind

as people joined to the legend at the hip despite overwhelming evidence, evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Freeh report
Our investigative team made independent discovery of critical 1998 and 2001 emails – the most important evidence in this investigation. “
“In critical written correspondence that we uncovered on March 20th of this year,
we see evidence of their proposed plan of action in February 2001 that included
reporting allegations about Sandusky to the authorities. After Mr. Curley consulted with Mr. Paterno, however, they changed the plan and decided not to make a report to the authorities
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf

isadore;1230754 wrote:Freeh report
Our investigative team made independent discovery of critical 1998 and 2001 emails – the most important evidence in this investigation. “
“In critical written correspondence that we uncovered on March 20th of this year,
we see evidence of their proposed plan of action in February 2001 that included
reporting allegations about Sandusky to the authorities. After Mr. Curley consulted with Mr. Paterno, however, they changed the plan and decided not to make a report to the authorities
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf

That's not 1998 dumbass. Now I know why you were voted the worst. You just spew bullshit and ignore facts and you make no sense at all. All you do is use big words to make yourself sound smart but in reality you don't know what the hell your talking about

Crimson streak;1230780 wrote:That's not 1998 dumbass. Now I know why you were voted the worst. You just spew bull**** and ignore facts and you make no sense at all. All you do is use big words to make yourself sound smart but in reality you don't know what the hell your talking about

Gosh I guess following the thread is beyond you. No one will ever accuse you of sounding smart. You should really try to understand the chronology of events before commenting
1998 police investigation of Sandusky after report by one of his victims
1999 retirement
2001 assistant coach sees Sandusky assaulting boy in shower
105# rec legend 22 statement about the 1998 incident and the 1999 retirement
106# I quote from the Freeh investigation about their conclusions on Paterno and PSU administrators reaction to police notification of accusation against Sandusky in 1998-1999 ignoring the accusation.
107# reclegend22 demand verification of paterno ordered coverup
110# I quote from the Freeh investigation which uses 2001 e mails showing paterno ordering the coverup after the shower incident that year.

isadore;1230785 wrote:Gosh I guess following the thread is beyond you. No one will ever accuse you of sounding smart. You should really try to understand the chronology of events before commenting
1998 police investigation of Sandusky after report by one of his victims
1999 retirement
2001 assistant coach sees Sandusky assaulting boy in shower
105# rec legend 22 statement about the 1998 incident and the 1999 retirement
106# I quote from the Freeh investigation about their conclusions on Paterno and PSU administrators reaction to police notification of accusation against Sandusky in 1998-1999 ignoring the accusation.
107# reclegend22 demand verification of paterno ordered coverup
110# I quote from the Freeh investigation which uses 2001 e mails showing paterno ordering the coverup after the shower incident that year.

But what your not getting is that the emails don't show exactly what there talking about. That's what you can't comprehend. There is reasonable doubt in those emails. Do I think paterno covered it up? Yes I do, but it is inconclusive based on those emails alone.

Who conducted the investigation, Louis Freeh, lawyer, FBI agent, Federal Prosecutor, Federal Judge and Director of the FBI. He was aided by outstanding team of
former law enforcement, lawyers (one of whom is a former Navy SEAL) and officials,including former prosecutors, FBI Agents and Pennsylvania and Delaware State Police Officers, with many decades of experience conducting sensitive investigations.
And they examined
my team conducted over 430 interviews of various individuals that
included current and former University employees from various departments across the University, as well as current and past Trustees, former coaches, athletes and others in the community. We also analyzed over 3.5 million emails and other documents. And they came to their conclusions of a Paterno lead coverup.
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf
You, reclegend22 and jay paterno disagree.
but I think I will agree with Freeh.

isadore;1230796 wrote:Who conducted the investigation, Louis Freeh, lawyer, FBI agent, Federal Prosecutor, Federal Judge and Director of the FBI. He was aided by outstanding team of
former law enforcement, lawyers (one of whom is a former Navy SEAL) and officials,including former prosecutors, FBI Agents and Pennsylvania and Delaware State Police Officers, with many decades of experience conducting sensitive investigations.
And they examined
my team conducted over 430 interviews of various individuals that
included current and former University employees from various departments across the University, as well as current and past Trustees, former coaches, athletes and others in the community. We also analyzed over 3.5 million emails and other documents. And they came to their conclusions of a Paterno lead coverup.
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/Press_Release_07_12_12.pdf
You, reclegend22 and jay paterno disagree.
but I think I will agree with Freeh.

So their opinion is fact? Gotcha

no their knowledge of the material and analytical ability is better than yours. they provide expertise
and the testimony of those experts tied to the emails would provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

but the obvious preponderance of evidence will never be enough for reclegend22, jay paterno and you.

joe changed the opinion of the other three or the assaults would have ended in 2001. that is what the evidence shows.

for rational folks that is what is called "a smoking gun." for apologists a smoking gun is not enough.

isadore;1230803 wrote:no their knowledge of the material and analytical ability is better than yours. they provide expertise
and the testimony of those experts tied to the emails would provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Like I said there is no facts to say paterno covered it up. It's all there opinions. I do think he did cover it up to an extent. But there is still doubt that he actually did cover it up. No one will ever know because paterno is dead and I expect Curley to throw paterno under the bus in his trail to save his own ass

Statue was just removed

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-president-orders-Joe-Paterno-statue-removal--072212

PSU press conference set for 9:00 am Monday morning. "Unprecedented" penalties reportedly will be levied.

Sounds like possibility of something worse than the Death Penalty...

ESPN just ran on their crawl that CBS Sports is saying that "unprecedented" sanctions will come down from the NCAA at 9:00 AM Monday