Glory Days;1223456 wrote:no its the system...dont trash the system!

your sarcasm is noted.

however, it's not the system. the system still requires a minimum wage to be paid. the system just allows for the CUSTOMER to give the server a greater wage.
you'd think someone responsible for the safety of others could understand something so simple.

Big_Mirg_ZHS;1223423 wrote:Theres been times when we had no business to even make tips and the girls still only made 3.30 that day. Its made up the rest of the week basically. The hourly wage basically ends up paying the taxes on the tips.

Are you still in college?

hasbeen;1223458 wrote:your sarcasm is noted.

however, it's not the system. the system still requires a minimum wage to be paid. the system just allows for the CUSTOMER to give the server a greater wage.
you'd think someone responsible for the safety of others could understand something so simple.

Every system in america allows for you to tip if you'd like. You can give anyone who provides you a service extra money if you'd like, nothing is stopping you. Only restaurants pressure you into it, only former servers get their panties in a bunch over not getting EXTRA aka a tip on top of their minimum wages. At the end of the day, if you don't want minimum wage, quit. Fuck servers for expecting extra for doing a job they were hired to do. Tips are a perk of the job, not a guarantee, but all waiters and bartenders expect it no matter what. So no, idgaf if you don't get a tip for voluntarily taking a job that flat out tells you "your wages suck, better hope people are nice enough to give you more money"

@hasbeen - if you're going to quote Five Finger Death Punch, at least get the damn lyrics right.

Raw Dawgin' it;1223463 wrote:Every system in america allows for you to tip if you'd like. You can give anyone who provides you a service extra money if you'd like, nothing is stopping you. Only restaurants pressure you into it, only former servers get their panties in a bunch over not getting EXTRA aka a tip on top of their minimum wages. At the end of the day, if you don't want minimum wage, quit. Fuck servers for expecting extra for doing a job they were hired to do. Tips are a perk of the job, not a guarantee, but all waiters and bartenders expect it no matter what. So no, idgaf if you don't get a tip for voluntarily taking a job that flat out tells you "your wages suck, better hope people are nice enough to give you more money"

Your first two sentences are true. Your second sentence is only true if you are a pussy who's scared of confrontation, and it's not an EXTRA tip. It's a part of the wage. You, the customer, decides how big that part of the wage is. Again, servers don't expect EXTRA, they expect customers who willingly enter a restaurant to understand the pay scale that is used. Tips are not a guarantee, you are correct. You are also correct in saying that tips are a perk. But they are only a perk because the customer can give you MORE based on your performance.

And when you get hired on as a server, they don't say "your wages suck, better hope people are nice enough to give you more money". They usually say that if you work hard and do a good job, you will be compensated greater than if you were just working for minimum wage. Getting good tips still falls back on if you are good at your job or not.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. You're obviously ignorant to how it all works.

Raw Dawgin' it;1223464 wrote:@hasbeen - if you're going to quote Five Finger Death Punch, at least get the damn lyrics right.

The song in my signature is the original(and better) version of the song Bad Company that was written and performed by the band Bad Company(Paul Rodgers in particular) in 1974. So in all actuality, Five Finger Death Punch changed the lyrics and fucked up a great song.

@raw dawgin' it - if you're going to bitch about "incorrect" lyrics, please know what the fuck you're talking about.

hasbeen;1223476 wrote:Your first two sentences are true. Your second sentence is only true if you are a pussy who's scared of confrontation, and it's not an EXTRA tip. It's a part of the wage. You, the customer, decides how big that part of the wage is. Again, servers don't expect EXTRA, they expect customers who willingly enter a restaurant to understand the pay scale that is used. Tips are not a guarantee, you are correct. You are also correct in saying that tips are a perk. But they are only a perk because the customer can give you MORE based on your performance.

And when you get hired on as a server, they don't say "your wages suck, better hope people are nice enough to give you more money". They usually say that if you work hard and do a good job, you will be compensated greater than if you were just working for minimum wage. Getting good tips still falls back on if you are good at your job or not.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. You're obviously ignorant to how it all works.

When you were hired, what was your wage and what were you told you'd receive if you did not get any tips?

Raw Dawgin' it;1223478 wrote:When you were hired, what was your wage and what were you told you'd receive if you did not get any tips?

My wage was like $3.65 I think when I first started. Legally, if I don't reach minimum wage through tips, the restaurant is required to pay at least minimum wage.

Now, you're going to come back with "so it's not part of the wage." I'm going to respond to that with: The employer has a legal obligation to pay minimum wage, but how things are set up, the restaurant allows for the customer to pay that portion, which normally exceeds what the restaurant would pay. That is the whole reason servers deal with the shitty job. People understand the value of the service they receive and they choose to pay for it. People, like you who don't understand, still pay for the service but bitch about it.

The restaurant is required to pay the extra ~$4 for the service, but aren't willing to pay more than that usually. This is why they leave it up to the customer to decide the value of the service.

hasbeen;1223485 wrote:My wage was like $3.65 I think when I first started. Legally, if I don't reach minimum wage through tips, the restaurant is required to pay at least minimum wage.

Now, you're going to come back with "so it's not part of the wage." I'm going to respond to that with: The employer has a legal obligation to pay minimum wage, but how things are set up, the restaurant allows for the customer to pay that portion, which normally exceeds what the restaurant would pay. That is the whole reason servers deal with the shitty job. People understand the value of the service they receive and they choose to pay for it. People, like you who don't understand, still pay for the service but bitch about it.

The restaurant is required to pay the extra ~$4 for the service, but aren't willing to pay more than that usually. This is why they leave it up to the customer to decide the value of the service.

1) I bitch because servers expect it (there are exceptions to the rule) and get angry if they didn't get a tip or they got a small still.

2) This is similar to my point that you take the job hoping for the good will of customers. As I said, either way you're going to get min wage (again, exceptions cause some places fuck you over) so you should be happy with anything over that. I understand how the system works, I think in general tipping is a silly practice and I do it out of necessity mostly because people expect them and will screw you over next time they see you because you didn't give them extra on top of their shit wage.

Whatever - you were a server and believe it's necessary and i never was one and think it's horseshit for giving someone extra cash for doing their job. Also, big 'ol middle finger to anyone who's sole argument is "If you don't tip you're an asshole," you clearly only do it because society says too and you're a sheep.

Raw Dawgin' it;1223510 wrote:1) I bitch because servers expect it (there are exceptions to the rule) and get angry if they didn't get a tip or they got a small still.

2) This is similar to my point that you take the job hoping for the good will of customers. As I said, either way you're going to get min wage (again, exceptions cause some places fuck you over) so you should be happy with anything over that. I understand how the system works, I think in general tipping is a silly practice and I do it out of necessity mostly because people expect them and will screw you over next time they see you because you didn't give them extra on top of their shit wage.

Whatever - you were a server and believe it's necessary and i never was one and think it's horseshit for giving someone extra cash for doing their job. Also, big 'ol middle finger to anyone who's sole argument is "If you don't tip you're an asshole," you clearly only do it because society says too and you're a sheep.

We really aren't too far off. I don't like when servers expect tips. Some of the shit they say in the back is fucking ridiculous. They want it without earning it. I hate them too.

We just disagree on the good will. Serving shouldn't be a minimum wage job, but it's up to the server to prove that by how well they perform.

It's necessary only when the server earned it. And I have, quite a few times, stiffed a server and they were well aware of it. They got pissy, but fuck them. They didn't do their job.

hasbeen;1223520 wrote:We really aren't too far off. I don't like when servers expect tips. Some of the shit they say in the back is fucking ridiculous. They want it without earning it. I hate them too.

We just disagree on the good will. Serving shouldn't be a minimum wage job, but it's up to the server to prove that by how well they perform.

It's necessary only when the server earned it. And I have, quite a few times, stiffed a server and they were well aware of it. They got pissy, but fuck them. They didn't do their job.

I totally agree with this and I've done this.

I expect 20% of my posts to be repped. Thanks.

like_that;1223546 wrote:I expect 20% of my posts to be repped. Thanks.

I rep'd, but only because i felt pressured.

hasbeen;1223288 wrote:For example...

a server who brings you a drink before you empty it.
a server who keeps you aware of why your food might be taking too long instead of hiding from you.
a server who is visually busy, but has the time to LISTEN to what you need rather than just running by.
a server who can simply multi-task exceptionally.
a server who is constantly in view of you so they are available to you.
a server who takes responsibility for mistakes rather than blaming the bartender or the cooks.

There's probably a ton of other little things that make them exceptional. If you honestly can't tell an exceptional server from the average joe servers then you must get shitty service.

God, those are rare but meal/experience is far more enjoyable....and the tip of course is according.

SnotBubbles;1222208 wrote:Right around 20%, usually on the high side. If the service isn't very good, 15%-ish.

For drinks, I generally tip $1 every time I go to the bar.

This. Although, I hate when a beer is like $5.50, then I might tip $1.50 and maybe only $0.50 on the next.

Even when I've had bad service, I really just can't bring myself to not leaving a tip. I probably leave 10%. If it's not a large bill, say $25-30, I might leave as much as 25-30% for exceptional service.

I tip my barber $5. I generally tip cabs 20-25%. Sometimes I will tip my dry cleaner.

Did they pay federal income tax last year? If not, then my tax dollars have already tipped them

/sleeper'd

I wonder how well she tips.

Raw Dawgin' it;1222392 wrote:What's the difference? they still brought you your food?

I'm not tipping because they walked the food from the kitchen. I'm tipping for them providing wait service while I sit and enjoy my food. This means checking up on me, napkins, refills, taking dirty plates, etc. That's what they're being paid for with their 'tip'. Bringing the food out is part of their $3-something-an-hour.

like_that;1223459 wrote:Are you still in college?

Nope i work full time for a multi million dollar building maintenance company.

Okay, this will take a bit to explain why the tip-system is much better than paying servers a flat rate.

Primarily, tip-based servers allow the market to regulate who is serving food to customers. The management of the restaurant doesn't have the ability or inclination to request feedback from every patron to determine who is the better servers (and therefore, who are bad). The customers decide that. The pay generated in tips by bad servers will greatly influence their decision on staying at their current job/profession. If they're bad, their tips reflect it. They may skate by without getting the manager involved in quality control from angry customers, but that still doesn't mean they're good at what they do. How often do you go to a restaurant regularly and see the same one or two servers. And the rest are a cast of changing faces? The market's decided who are good and who are bad. But, if you're not going to the same restaurant regularly, you fellow diners' previous tips have helped shape the staff that's not serving you today.

Turnover in the food service profession is understandably high. It's a low-entry, yet potentially high return job. So, a lot will give it a try. Especially teenagers, college students, etc. Most of whom have no desire to wait on people their entirely lives. That is, honestly, the truth. That level of apathy would be tough to cut through if they were all paid a flat rate regardless of their level of service. I worked in telephone customer service for a large utility in my early 20s. I hated it. It was a horrible job, but I was damn good at it. I got performance-based bonuses. Do you think I, or anyone else in my office, would go the extra mile if it meant not one more cent to you? Trust me, I know from dealing with coworkers that could never meet the minimum bonus level if their life depended on it. Therefore, even the slightest bit of effort or humanity in them was gone. It was just a job.

And lastly, as an entry level job, it is one of the last labor positions in the country that actually pays well compared to the skills required to do it. Training consists of a few hours of shadowing another server, and just a few days at most to get the entire hang of WHAT they're doing, if not necessarily stellar at it. It is the barometer of the working class. Anybody can apply for the job and generally NO experience is needed. It is the first non-McJob that someone can get that can truly advance themselves beyond minimum wage by working hard, doing a good job, and striving to be better than average.

Take away that, and there's no real incentive to get your order right. After all, just because the management can fire his way through a whole herd of applicants, doesn't mean he wants to. So, shitty service it will be.

Sykotyk;1223746 wrote:Okay, this will take a bit to explain why the tip-system is much better than paying servers a flat rate.

Primarily, tip-based servers allow the market to regulate who is serving food to customers. The management of the restaurant doesn't have the ability or inclination to request feedback from every patron to determine who is the better servers (and therefore, who are bad). The customers decide that. The pay generated in tips by bad servers will greatly influence their decision on staying at their current job/profession. If they're bad, their tips reflect it. They may skate by without getting the manager involved in quality control from angry customers, but that still doesn't mean they're good at what they do. How often do you go to a restaurant regularly and see the same one or two servers. And the rest are a cast of changing faces? The market's decided who are good and who are bad. But, if you're not going to the same restaurant regularly, you fellow diners' previous tips have helped shape the staff that's not serving you today.

Turnover in the food service profession is understandably high. It's a low-entry, yet potentially high return job. So, a lot will give it a try. Especially teenagers, college students, etc. Most of whom have no desire to wait on people their entirely lives. That is, honestly, the truth. That level of apathy would be tough to cut through if they were all paid a flat rate regardless of their level of service. I worked in telephone customer service for a large utility in my early 20s. I hated it. It was a horrible job, but I was damn good at it. I got performance-based bonuses. Do you think I, or anyone else in my office, would go the extra mile if it meant not one more cent to you? Trust me, I know from dealing with coworkers that could never meet the minimum bonus level if their life depended on it. Therefore, even the slightest bit of effort or humanity in them was gone. It was just a job.

And lastly, as an entry level job, it is one of the last labor positions in the country that actually pays well compared to the skills required to do it. Training consists of a few hours of shadowing another server, and just a few days at most to get the entire hang of WHAT they're doing, if not necessarily stellar at it. It is the barometer of the working class. Anybody can apply for the job and generally NO experience is needed. It is the first non-McJob that someone can get that can truly advance themselves beyond minimum wage by working hard, doing a good job, and striving to be better than average.

Take away that, and there's no real incentive to get your order right. After all, just because the management can fire his way through a whole herd of applicants, doesn't mean he wants to. So, shitty service it will be.

Got bored...needed pictures or something

honestly, in my experience in the service industry, i'm usually relieved when the customer isn't a complete jackass or a huge bitch that i couldn't care less about the tips (swear there's a portion of the population that could probably use a good walk in traffic lol). if you want to tip, thank you i appreciate it, but i never go in expecting it. the people who bitch about not getting tipped are the worst. i knew what i was getting into so bitching about tips is just pointless

also, seen it mentioned somewhere throughout the thread, but i never stand by customers when i bring them their credit card receipt to sign. i'll always pretend like im cleaning something or stocking something at the other end of the bar just because it is such an awkward exchange to be there while the customer is deciding how good you were at your job.

Big_Mirg_ZHS;1223394 wrote:So i take your order. write it down get your drinks prepare the food bag it and bring it out to your car and you never have to get out. whats different than if you sat there and ate it? You dont tip the guy who cleans the table... I still served you your food.

Is this a serious question?

Because the waitstaff is to use a politically incorrect term a "servant" during the term of a sit down meal which can last up to a couple (or few) hours. They advise you of specials, they are completely knowledgable about the menu, ideally they can suggest dishes/wine selections, and they follow up at 5 4 or 5 times per hour if nothing else to ask if anyone needs anything, if the food is satisfactory or if they'd like a drink. It's an hour of work and I'll tip them for that. If I order Papa John's online and walk over to pick it up I'm not tipping the guy at the register that has to extend 1 minute of work to grab the box and hand it over. The "service" provided does not warrant a 20% surcharge. I might as well tip the person checking out my groceries.

Manhattan Buckeye;1223960 wrote:Is this a serious question?

Because the waitstaff is to use a politically incorrect term a "servant" during the term of a sit down meal which can last up to a couple (or few) hours. They advise you of specials, they are completely knowledgable about the menu, ideally they can suggest dishes/wine selections, and they follow up at 5 4 or 5 times per hour if nothing else to ask if anyone needs anything, if the food is satisfactory or if they'd like a drink. It's an hour of work and I'll tip them for that. If I order Papa John's online and walk over to pick it up I'm not tipping the guy at the register that has to extend 1 minute of work to grab the box and hand it over. The "service" provided does not warrant a 20% surcharge. I might as well tip the person checking out my groceries.

To be fair at most places the guys on the register are also making your pizza. I can't fathom that very many places have a guy that does nothing but sit on the register. Everything else you said is spot on though and I certainly don't expect or think it's necessary to tip for pick up orders at most places. It's appreciated a lot but it isn't something I count on, just a nice pick me up when it happens.

^^^

Perhaps so, I've never walked into Papa John's or a local establishment for take out, and hung around for 20-30 minutes. I have done that at many Chinese cuisine establishments where the wait time is significantly less and the person at the register (note, always a woman) just answers calls and rings people out at the register. All of the cooks do is cook, and they are almost always men. I've been to probably a couple of dozen of places where you can see your food being prepared and I really don't recall ever seeing a woman participating - other than manning the register. Perhaps that's a NY thing.

Manhattan Buckeye;1223960 wrote:Is this a serious question?

Because the waitstaff is to use a politically incorrect term a "servant" during the term of a sit down meal which can last up to a couple (or few) hours. They advise you of specials, they are completely knowledgable about the menu, ideally they can suggest dishes/wine selections, and they follow up at 5 4 or 5 times per hour if nothing else to ask if anyone needs anything, if the food is satisfactory or if they'd like a drink. It's an hour of work and I'll tip them for that. If I order Papa John's online and walk over to pick it up I'm not tipping the guy at the register that has to extend 1 minute of work to grab the box and hand it over. The "service" provided does not warrant a 20% surcharge. I might as well tip the person checking out my groceries.

If you order to go from a sit down restaruant(ie applebees, tumbleweed. The person who answers the phone takes your order puts it in gets it all bagged up with all the sides you requested and what not and then takes it out to your car and you pay them when you get there. only thing they dont do is clean up afterwards.