I Wear Pants;1224514 wrote:Yeah it's good that you make that distinction about not trying to convince people. When I talk on these sort of subjects I have no intent ,nor do I imagine I would be able to even if I did, of convincing people my position is correct.

I'll try to find a link for the Michael Shermer stuff as well. YSU brought him in to do a presentation for us which I thought was pretty fascinating.

This is interesting to me that you have multiple times referred to people trying to convince you. Has that happened on this forum frequently?

gut;1224409 wrote:Again I think this is another gross generalization of far right ignorants who take everything literally. I suspect most people have varying degrees of what God is, or means in their lives, but embrace religion for the community and a value system to raise a family in. As a society we create laws to enhance the functioning. For similar reasons, people choose religions that promote values they share.

I tend to agree but it can and does go much deeper than "promotion of family values" particularly from a spiritual point of view.

In our quest to understand the universe in which we live, what our purpose is in it, and how we all came to be "scientific methods" sometimes fall far short of providing us with plausible explanations for our existence. Therefore some of us choose to look to the "un-plausible" for those explanations.

For me, I marvel at the complexities of the universe. For example, the only life we know for certain that exists in the universe is here on Earth. If the Earth's abort shifts just a few thousand miles closer to the sun it's too hot to support life - at least as we know it. If it shifts a few thousand miles away from the sun it's too cold.

Is that mere chance? Or was it by Design? Does it mean life only exists on Earth? Maybe. Maybe not.

Look at the Mars missions for example. As much resources and money we've spent trying to find life outside of Earth, the answers still allude us.

I'm not grossly far right ignorant enough, however, to dismiss the possibility that life exists elsewhere.

God can certainly place life anywhere he wants.

Yet despite all of our advance science and reasoning, we humans have yet to prove it exists anywhere else.

This in and of itself is a marvel; a marvel that tells me that this is all by Design; not by some chance "out of nothingness to somethingness" Big Bang.

Con_Alma;1224604 wrote:This is interesting to me that you have multiple times referred to people trying to convince you. Has that happened on this forum frequently?

Not here no, but that was in response to O-Trap saying he's not trying to convince me/win me over with his arguments. I was merely agreeing with him.

believer;1224684 wrote:I tend to agree but it can and does go much deeper than "promotion of family values" particularly from a spiritual point of view.

In our quest to understand the universe in which we live, what our purpose is in it, and how we all came to be "scientific methods" sometimes fall far short of providing us with plausible explanations for our existence. Therefore some of us choose to look to the "un-plausible" for those explanations.

For me, I marvel at the complexities of the universe. For example, the only life we know for certain that exists in the universe is here on Earth. If the Earth's abort shifts just a few thousand miles closer to the sun it's too hot to support life - at least as we know it. If it shifts a few thousand miles away from the sun it's too cold.

Is that mere chance? Or was it by Design? Does it mean life only exists on Earth? Maybe. Maybe not.

Look at the Mars missions for example. As much resources and money we've spent trying to find life outside of Earth, the answers still allude us.

I'm not grossly far right ignorant enough, however, to dismiss the possibility that life exists elsewhere.

God can certainly place life anywhere he wants.

Yet despite all of our advance science and reasoning, we humans have yet to prove it exists anywhere else.

This in and of itself is a marvel; a marvel that tells me that this is all by Design; not by some chance "out of nothingness to somethingness" Big Bang.

Perhaps it's more because other than Mars and perhaps one of Jupiter's moons the nearest places thought to be capable of producing life are light years away. I don't see us not having found life yet as adding any weight to the idea that there is only life here nor to the idea that god exists (and even more it doesn't give credence to the idea of any of the specific gods existing be it the Christian, Muslim, Norse, whatever).

I Wear Pants;1224693 wrote:Not here no,....

Good to hear. I had thought you had stated that in the past also.

I understand completely why anyone would question or not even believe there is a God. I also understand why people can believe in both God and Science like I do. I will agree with IWP that there are far too many people out there who really have no idea the History of the Bible, Torah, Quran..etc.. and just believe whatever they are told and then turn around and totally misrepresent everything they are trying to push on people. I do not pretend to say that I am the expert of all experts but I feel comfortable with my beliefs because I took the time to really discover my faith and what it means to me.

I do believe that both Atheist and Christians put too much stock in the what the Bible says and try to twist things around to fit their point of view.

pmoney25;1224716 wrote:...

I do believe that both Atheist and Christians put too much stock in the what the Bible says ...

Can a Christian really put too much stock in the Bible when they accept it as the word of God? When Christ himself was not being recorded the wrkters claimed a supernatural origin for the writings. Some 4000 times expression like Thus says the Lord and the word of the Lord came unto me.

Whether you agree with that or not isn't the point as much as someone who does believe that it's the word of the almighty creator and even having the ability to put enough stock in it. I'm not sure it's possible for those that believe it's the word of God to put too much stock in it.

Con_Alma;1224725 wrote:Can a Christian really put too much stock in the Bible when they accept it as the word of God? When Christ himself was not being recorded the wrkters claimed a supernatural origin for the writings. Some 4000 times expression like Thus says the Lord and the word of the Lord came unto me.

Whether you agree with that or not isn't the point as much as someone who does believe that it's the word of the almighty creator and even having the ability to put enough stock in it. I'm not sure it's possible for those that believe it's the word of God to put too much stock in it.

What I meant was those who take the Bible to be a word for word literal piece of literature. Those that believe the Old Testament Laws were the actual word of God or in fact the laws of the land at the time. Those that literally believe the Jonah and the Whale story. So yes I do believe it is possible for Christians to put too much stock in the Bible.

I am a believer and follow Christ. I personally don't think the Bible is 100% the word of God. Mainly because the main Bible that most people have read is the King James version which has been edited and mistranslated numerous times from the original texts. So I do not think my statement is false.

I Wear Pants;1223946 wrote:That's absolute horse**** and you ****ing know it. Scientists don't just rely on other peoples research and regard it as reliable. They read it and study it and repeat experiments and **** all the time.

I've been running into more and more people who either don't grasp or don't believe in the scientific process lately and it makes me very fearful for our future.

I thought OTrap explained that part very well in an earlier post. I agree with the claim that scientific research is not the only method available for acquiring information about the universe (especially historical claims).

FatHobbit;1224251 wrote:Why can a series of events in time not be infinite? It seems odd to me that people think there was a time when there was nothing and now there is something.

I find it no less absurd that the universe has been here forever than that god has been here forever.

If the universe did not begin to exist at some point in the finite past, then the present moment would never arrive, would it? Infinity is useful as a mathematical concept, but is nowhere to be found in reality (google "Hilbert's Hotel"). Scientifically we can look at the expansion of the universe and at least reasonably say it had an incredibly dense beginning.

That doesn't prove God's existence, but for me it at least shows the universe is not God.

pmoney25;1224750 wrote:What I meant was those who take the Bible to be a word for word literal piece of literature. Those that believe the Old Testament Laws were the actual word of God or in fact the laws of the land at the time. Those that literally believe the Jonah and the Whale story. So yes I do believe it is possible for Christians to put too much stock in the Bible.

I am a believer and follow Christ. I personally don't think the Bible is 100% the word of God. Mainly because the main Bible that most people have read is the King James version which has been edited and mistranslated numerous times from the original texts. So I do not think my statement is false.

Christ himself referenced the Jonah story as a literal event when arguing with the Pharisees (Matt.12:40). Just sayin.

pmoney25;1224750 wrote:What I meant was those who take the Bible to be a word for word literal piece of literature. Those that believe the Old Testament Laws were the actual word of God or in fact the laws of the land at the time. Those that literally believe the Jonah and the Whale story. So yes I do believe it is possible for Christians to put too much stock in the Bible.

I am a believer and follow Christ. I personally don't think the Bible is 100% the word of God. Mainly because the main Bible that most people have read is the King James version which has been edited and mistranslated numerous times from the original texts. So I do not think my statement is false.

We disagree completely.

Maybe I didn't state the prefeace very well for my question. Here's a more condensed version

When a person does accept the Bible as the word of God, which I understand you don't, is it even possible to put too much stock into it?

I Wear Pants;1224694 wrote:Perhaps it's more because other than Mars and perhaps one of Jupiter's moons the nearest places thought to be capable of producing life are light years away. I don't see us not having found life yet as adding any weight to the idea that there is only life here nor to the idea that god exists (and even more it doesn't give credence to the idea of any of the specific gods existing be it the Christian, Muslim, Norse, whatever).

And honestly, life elsewhere doesn't really change too much about my worldview. Obviously some, but not much.

However, I don't think we'll see any sentient life elsewhere in the universe, and I certainly don't believe we have more evidence than we've let on. In the words of Stephen Hawking, " If the government is covering up knowledge of Aliens, they are doing a better job of it then they do at anything else."

I don't understand why people insist on making a worldly country into something else through politics. You do realize that Rome wasnt exactly a Christian nation but Jesus wasnt down there with picket signs or starting up some moral majority right?

God;1225216 wrote:I don't understand why people insist on making a worldly country into something else through politics. You do realize that Rome wasnt exactly a Christian nation but Jesus wasnt down there with picket signs or starting up some moral majority right?

Why isn't something that You have to understand. The free will You provided enables us to make such choices. Thank you.

You're welcome but youre not as free as you think you are.

My point was that its not that important so it makes me sad when my people show little passion for the redeeming of souls and a lot for turning the gospel into a burdensome law.

??? It's not me that's free as much as the will that I possess.

There are many things "not important" that we choose to do. Eradicating your sadness is the the motivating factor in our decisions.....but you knew that already didn't you?

The U.S. will never be a theocracy. This is just their typical bullshit to distract the sheep from the real issues. The only theocracy they want is the one that worships the federal government, and that is already here.

Cleveland Buck;1225594 wrote:The U.S. will never be a theocracy. This is just their typical bullshit to distract the sheep from the real issues. The only theocracy they want is the one that worships the federal government, and that is already here.

agreed

Cleveland Buck;1225594 wrote:The U.S. will never be a theocracy. This is just their typical bullshit to distract the sheep from the real issues. The only theocracy they want is the one that worships the federal government, and that is already here.

Reps. As much as I hate to acknowledge the truth.