Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Jun 24, 2012 11:22pm
President Obama called Morsi to congratulate him on his victory, underscoring that the U.S. will continue to support Egypt's transition into democracy. The two leaders affirmed their commitment to advancing the many shared interests between the countries, agreeing to stay in close touch in the coming weeks and months.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/24/white-house-urges-muslim-brotherhood-winner-in-egypt-vote-to-respect-minorities/#ixzz1yltXfKeq
How much support Obama will America provide when the blood of Christian, Jews and othe Religious Minorities are kill by Islamic law and Islamic radical goverment?
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/24/white-house-urges-muslim-brotherhood-winner-in-egypt-vote-to-respect-minorities/#ixzz1yltXfKeq
How much support Obama will America provide when the blood of Christian, Jews and othe Religious Minorities are kill by Islamic law and Islamic radical goverment?
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I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Jun 24, 2012 11:26pm
What did you want him to do?
You're ridiculous, you claim to think democracy is something people should have and then shit all over it anytime people don't pick the same things you would.
More Muslims have been killed by our government than Americans by radical Islamists.
You're ridiculous, you claim to think democracy is something people should have and then shit all over it anytime people don't pick the same things you would.
More Muslims have been killed by our government than Americans by radical Islamists.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 24, 2012 11:44pm
gosh i guess we can not complain about muslim atrocities until they kill more of us. they just get a free shot at the Copts.
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I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Jun 24, 2012 11:49pm
You can't complain about Muslim atrocities unless you also do the same about Christian atrocities and other religious atrocities.isadore;1210776 wrote:gosh i guess we can not complain about muslim atrocities until they kill more of us. they just get a free shot at the Copts.
But very, very few religious people ever do that. It's always the other guys or "well we don't agree with that part of the bible/the church/etc".
Because of religion many people in Islamic nations can't listen to Western music or go dancing or drink alcohol and because of religion gay people in the United States (and a bunch of other countries) can't marry the people they love.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 24, 2012 11:54pm
I can complain all I want about Muslim terrorists trying to kill Americans. They are scum.
It is interesting that we see Muslims becoming more and more intolerant as they look to the example of their Prophet.
While in many Christian nations in the Americas and Europe the attitudes toward gay marriage for example are becoming more tolerant.
It is interesting that we see Muslims becoming more and more intolerant as they look to the example of their Prophet.
While in many Christian nations in the Americas and Europe the attitudes toward gay marriage for example are becoming more tolerant.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Jun 25, 2012 12:10am
The ratio is roughly 700 to 1. And that doesn't include the sanctions that ruined the lives of the Iraqi people in the 90's, or the Irani people today.I Wear Pants;1210750 wrote:.
More Muslims have been killed by our government than Americans by radical Islamists.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Jun 25, 2012 12:18am
In the meantime, the US supports the terrorists in Syria trying to overthrow the government with money and munitions. Why is that?
Sometimes we support the terrorists...sometimes we fight the terrorists. Sometimes we send dozens of drones into Pakistan, killing hundreds of innocent civilians...in hopes of landing a bad guy now and then.
Here's an idea....let them fight their own battles and save a half a tril or so.
Sometimes we support the terrorists...sometimes we fight the terrorists. Sometimes we send dozens of drones into Pakistan, killing hundreds of innocent civilians...in hopes of landing a bad guy now and then.
Here's an idea....let them fight their own battles and save a half a tril or so.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Jun 25, 2012 7:41pm
I'd be willing to bet someone is making a lot of money off of the side we support.Footwedge;1210817 wrote:In the meantime, the US supports the terrorists in Syria trying to overthrow the government with money and munitions. Why is that?
Sometimes we support the terrorists...sometimes we fight the terrorists. Sometimes we send dozens of drones into Pakistan, killing hundreds of innocent civilians...in hopes of landing a bad guy now and then.
Here's an idea....let them fight their own battles and save a half a tril or so.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Jun 25, 2012 7:58pm
Damn, call me stupid, but I must have missed where the military gave up power? Oh, right they didn't.Belly35;1210742 wrote:President Obama called Morsi to congratulate him on his victory, underscoring that the U.S. will continue to support Egypt's transition into democracy. The two leaders affirmed their commitment to advancing the many shared interests between the countries, agreeing to stay in close touch in the coming weeks and months.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/24/white-house-urges-muslim-brotherhood-winner-in-egypt-vote-to-respect-minorities/#ixzz1yltXfKeq
How much support Obama will America provide when the blood of Christian, Jews and othe Religious Minorities are kill by Islamic law and Islamic radical goverment?
In fact, they dissolved the Brotherhood led National Assembly, leading to no Constitution, effectively leaving any President, no matter who won with little power.
But, ignore the facts and get the news from the BS that is Fox.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Jun 25, 2012 8:01pm
Syria is way more complex than terrorists fighting against the regime. The movement has many good parts, and a dark side for sure.Footwedge;1210817 wrote:In the meantime, the US supports the terrorists in Syria trying to overthrow the government with money and munitions. Why is that?
Sometimes we support the terrorists...sometimes we fight the terrorists. Sometimes we send dozens of drones into Pakistan, killing hundreds of innocent civilians...in hopes of landing a bad guy now and then.
Here's an idea....let them fight their own battles and save a half a tril or so.
I'd compare it to the Lebanese civil war. There is no black and white, just all gray.
And the U.S. is in a pickle, as obviously we want Assad gone, but we have no idea what will result. So, we muddle along, and let the Arabs arm the resistance until it can mature and develop into a real movement.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 25, 2012 9:29pm
Lets see
In all probability it will be a Sunni dominated government. Alawites will suffer some degree of backlash. We get rid of an Iranian client state. Hezbollah would be undercut and diminished in the area.
All these new Arab Spring governments have seen an increase in influence for Islamists. If that happens the environment maybe less congenial for the Christian minority.
In all probability it will be a Sunni dominated government. Alawites will suffer some degree of backlash. We get rid of an Iranian client state. Hezbollah would be undercut and diminished in the area.
All these new Arab Spring governments have seen an increase in influence for Islamists. If that happens the environment maybe less congenial for the Christian minority.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Jun 25, 2012 10:02pm
A) The US has a moral imperative to stop the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians in Syria. The bravehawk Senator Mccain is publicly humping this one.Footwedge;1210817 wrote:In the meantime, the US supports the terrorists in Syria trying to overthrow the government with money and munitions. Why is that?
B) The US is acting in its own economic and political self interest. The US currently holds limited influence over the Assad regime. The Iranians and the Russians deal the cards. An opportunity to drive them from the table. And what if as a bonus the Ruskies little naval base in Syria is no more. Maybe the US could be making port calls in Tartus, Syria.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Jun 25, 2012 10:16pm
That's some assumptions.isadore;1211660 wrote:Lets see
In all probability it will be a Sunni dominated government. Alawites will suffer some degree of backlash. We get rid of an Iranian client state. Hezbollah would be undercut and diminished in the area.
All these new Arab Spring governments have seen an increase in influence for Islamists. If that happens the environment maybe less congenial for the Christian minority.
In Egypt, it's possible to have a Sunni led Government, but the military ultimately holding all the cards and assuring minorities have rights.
In Syria, it is way too early to project anything in regards to what may or may not happen. All option from Assad crushing the rebellion, to a liberal new democracy are possible.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 25, 2012 10:43pm
With the Arab Spring and the overthrow of Mubarek , the Copts have been under assault in Egypt even with this supposed protection from the military. And that military just saw itself diminished with the Presidential election.
In Syria do you honestly think there is not going to be a backlash against the Alawites who are so tied to the regime. The Sunni regimes are supporting the rebellion. Syrian Sunnis are going to dominate in any new government. If Assad is gone Iran loses as does their client, Hezbollah.
In Syria do you honestly think there is not going to be a backlash against the Alawites who are so tied to the regime. The Sunni regimes are supporting the rebellion. Syrian Sunnis are going to dominate in any new government. If Assad is gone Iran loses as does their client, Hezbollah.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Jun 25, 2012 10:51pm
LOL. Come on Spark....The moral obligation stuff is nonsense. Where was the morality in Iraq and now Iran whereby our sanctions starved their children?majorspark;1211715 wrote:A) The US has a moral imperative to stop the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians in Syria. The bravehawk Senator Mccain is publicly humping
Our morality in the Middle East doesn't exist.
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Jun 25, 2012 11:00pm
I must have missed it when the military demoted itself. Last I saw, they rewrote the law that allowed them to intervene whenever they wanted to. As I said, the military is holding all the power.isadore;1211764 wrote:With the Arab Spring and the overthrow of Mubarek , the Copts have been under assault in Egypt even with this supposed protection from the military. And that military just saw itself diminished with the Presidential election.
In Syria do you honestly think there is not going to be a backlash against the Alawites who are so tied to the regime. The Sunni regimes are supporting the rebellion. Syrian Sunnis are going to dominate in any new government. If Assad is gone Iran loses as does their client, Hezbollah.
They don't like what the President is doing, or what the National Assembly is doing, they can step in and call for new elections.
As to Syria, I have no idea, and neither do you. Hell, no one saw a peace in Lebanon in 1992 that included a 3 party sharing agreement that roughly continues today.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 25, 2012 11:14pm
The army in Egypt may call new elections which they will lose, as they have lost the Parliamentary election then the Presidential election.
In Syria the Alawites will be out and with them, their foreign allies.
In Syria the Alawites will be out and with them, their foreign allies.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Jun 25, 2012 11:27pm
The US is doing more than just muddling along while the Arabs arm the resistance. They are actively aiding them in their efforts by providing intelligence to get arms into the most strategically needed hands and vetting whose hands they fall into. Covertly we have thrown in our lot with the rebellion.ptown_trojans_1;1211531 wrote:And the U.S. is in a pickle, as obviously we want Assad gone, but we have no idea what will result. So, we muddle along, and let the Arabs arm the resistance until it can mature and develop into a real movement.
Personally I suspect the US is going further than is reported and actively aiding the formal organization of the resistance. In this case it is not in the interest of the US to have these arms falling into the hands of unorganized bands of ruthless thugs. So it would make sense that efforts are made to establish organized formal channels for distribution.
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Jun 25, 2012 11:39pm
I gave you a couple of choices to answer your question as to why the US is doing what it is in Syria. By the way I chose B.Footwedge;1211771 wrote:LOL. Come on Spark....The moral obligation stuff is nonsense.
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I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Jun 26, 2012 2:51am
Do you guys not realize that the battle for Egypt has just started and that it probably isn't going to be a battle in the sense of bullets and death but of ideas and influence?
This is the time that people need to project and spread ideas of secularism and tolerance. The coming years will be what decides it and hopefully those who used and loved the free speech they had to oust their previous oppressors will use it to continue to fight for what is right. They can't just be satisfied with a small victory.
This is the time that people need to project and spread ideas of secularism and tolerance. The coming years will be what decides it and hopefully those who used and loved the free speech they had to oust their previous oppressors will use it to continue to fight for what is right. They can't just be satisfied with a small victory.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Jun 26, 2012 2:55am
Because this sort of shit has always worked for us in the region right?ptown_trojans_1;1211531 wrote:Syria is way more complex than terrorists fighting against the regime. The movement has many good parts, and a dark side for sure.
I'd compare it to the Lebanese civil war. There is no black and white, just all gray.
And the U.S. is in a pickle, as obviously we want Assad gone, but we have no idea what will result. So, we muddle along, and let the Arabs arm the resistance until it can mature and develop into a real movement.
Are the people dictating foreign policy really so fucking incompetent that they make literally the same mistakes over and over for the last half decade or so?
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Jun 26, 2012 6:30am
I Wear Pants;1211856 wrote:Because this sort of shit has always worked for us in the region right?
Are the people dictating foreign policy really so fucking incompetent that they make literally the same mistakes over and over for the last half decade or so?
Ouch! ptown_trojans_1 is one of them :laugh:
believer
Posts: 8,153
Jun 26, 2012 7:28am
Job security.Belly35;1211877 wrote:Ouch! ptown_trojans_1 is one of them :laugh:
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
Jun 26, 2012 9:47am
Isadore and PTown active on opposite sides within a thread on foreign policy ...
ptown_trojans_1
Posts: 7,632
Jun 26, 2012 4:23pm
Yes, the Military lost the Parliament, then dissolved it. Then, they knew they would lose the Presidential election, so they rewrote some of the law to allow them to move in if needed.isadore;1211791 wrote:The army in Egypt may call new elections which they will lose, as they have lost the Parliamentary election then the Presidential election.
In Syria the Alawites will be out and with them, their foreign allies.
On Syria, perhaps, but no one knows.
While I agree with most of that, it terms of outright aiding the rebellion like Libya or any other civil war, we are not.majorspark;1211794 wrote:The US is doing more than just muddling along while the Arabs arm the resistance. They are actively aiding them in their efforts by providing intelligence to get arms into the most strategically needed hands and vetting whose hands they fall into. Covertly we have thrown in our lot with the rebellion.
Personally I suspect the US is going further than is reported and actively aiding the formal organization of the resistance. In this case it is not in the interest of the US to have these arms falling into the hands of unorganized bands of ruthless thugs. So it would make sense that efforts are made to establish organized formal channels for distribution.
We do have the CIA and other IC agents in Turkey helping. But, I was more saying this is not Egypt or Libya where we fully came down on one side.
If you have a better idea on how to help the Syrian people, by all means, share. It's a logistical and geopolitical nightmare.I Wear Pants;1211856 wrote:Because this sort of **** has always worked for us in the region right?
Are the people dictating foreign policy really so ****ing incompetent that they make literally the same mistakes over and over for the last half decade or so?
lol, thanks.O-Trap;1211951 wrote:Isadore and PTown active on opposite sides within a thread on foreign policy ...