Maybe try reading this: http://articles.boston.com/2007-02-02/sports/29237136_1_multiple-concussions-andre-waters-patriots-linebacker-ted-johnson

And this: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface091809

Players basically saying "I wish I had known the risks."

But hey, you guys are saying that they know the risks going in so that must make it true despite the fact that you have absolutely no evidence to support your position!

And here's an article about how the NFL ignored a forensic neuropathologist who tried to warn them of the dangers of CTE for YEARS: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=hoiward/100629

Mooney44Cards;1160732 wrote:Oh the old "I got called out for putting words in somebody else's mouth so I won't acknowledge that, I'll deflect the blame" tactic.

Has the NFL done ANYTHING to improve player safety regarding head injuries recently? Fine players? That doesn't stop the hits. Require rules to be followed for playing possibly-concussed players after a hard hit? See: Michael Vick, Colt McCoy, etc. Conceded to veteran players that football was the cause of their chronic injuries, conditions, and diseases? IT WILL BE A COLD DAY IN HELL.

But good thing you fell for that little PR stunt of their's that you linked to. It seems to really be making a difference!

How do you know it isn't making a difference? The results of what they are doing today, won't be seen for years, so to say they're doing nothing is a complete falsehood on your part. Also, common sense tells me that if I repeatedly rammed my head into a wall, there may be a chance for some consequences from that down the line.

Mooney44Cards;1160819 wrote:The players don't know the risks. Neither do doctors and scientists, which is why this is still being researched heavily.

Horseshit. Football and boxing are both known to cause these problems.

WebFire did a $5 million study and this was the conclusion...

If you play in the NFL for 20 years, your brain has a higher chance of being damaged than that of someone who doesn't play football. If you don't want the higher chance, don't play football.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/03/tim-brown-urges-caution-before-conclusions-on-junior-seau/

I tend to agree with Tim Brown. Lets not rush into this CTE accusations. Why hasn't Roger Staubach committed suicide? Lets just say that adjusting to life after football is harder on some than others. Does CTE cause depression? Probably. But it is how you handle it.

Really interesting read from Malcolm Gladwell. Speaks to the effect of CTE.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/19/091019fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all

Mooney44Cards;1160796 wrote:
Whatever they have done so far is not even close to enough.

There is no enough factor. There is literally nothing you can do to prevent it. Lessen it? Perhaps, but get rid of it? Impossible. Read the article I posted, this is from it:


“Let’s assume that Dr. Omalu and the others are right,” Ira Casson, who co-chairs an N.F.L. committee on brain injury, said. “What should we be doing differently? We asked Dr. McKee this when she came down. And she was honest, and said, ‘I don’t know how to answer that.’ No one has any suggestions—assuming that you aren’t saying no more football, because, let’s be honest, that’s not going to happen.” [LEFT]

And player/coach education? What good is that going to do? It's analogous to cigarette smoking. Both are billion dollar industries, and in cigarette smoking everyone at this point knows the dangers. But yet it still happens. Even if players and coaches knew the exact effects, people would still play because of the opportunity to make money from that billion dollar industry.
[/LEFT]

WebFire;1160952 wrote:Horseshit. Football and boxing are both known to cause these problems.

WebFire did a $5 million study and this was the conclusion...

If you play in the NFL for 20 years, your brain has a higher chance of being damaged than that of someone who doesn't play football. If you don't want the higher chance, don't play football.

Then why do former players keep saying that they didn't know the risks? Lemme guess, they're lying, right?

Mr Miyagi;1161653 wrote:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/03/tim-brown-urges-caution-before-conclusions-on-junior-seau/

I tend to agree with Tim Brown. Lets not rush into this CTE accusations. Why hasn't Roger Staubach committed suicide? Lets just say that adjusting to life after football is harder on some than others. Does CTE cause depression? Probably. But it is how you handle it.

News flash: not every person reacts the same to every health issue.

"Why hasn't someone who smoked 5 packs a day gotten lung cancer by the time they're 90? Must mean that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer!" <~~~~This is what you are saying. Look how dumb it is.

lhslep134;1161675 wrote:There is no enough factor. There is literally nothing you can do to prevent it. Lessen it? Perhaps, but get rid of it? Impossible. Read the article I posted, this is from it:


&#8220;Let&#8217;s assume that Dr. Omalu and the others are right,&#8221; Ira Casson, who co-chairs an N.F.L. committee on brain injury, said. &#8220;What should we be doing differently? We asked Dr. McKee this when she came down. And she was honest, and said, &#8216;I don&#8217;t know how to answer that.&#8217; No one has any suggestions&#8212;assuming that you aren&#8217;t saying no more football, because, let&#8217;s be honest, that&#8217;s not going to happen.&#8221; [LEFT]

And player/coach education? What good is that going to do? It's analogous to cigarette smoking. Both are billion dollar industries, and in cigarette smoking everyone at this point knows the dangers. But yet it still happens. Even if players and coaches knew the exact effects, people would still play because of the opportunity to make money from that billion dollar industry.
[/LEFT]

Hey, we can never get rid of it completely, so why even bother? AMIRITE GUYS?!

The amount of logic fallacies in this thread is above average.

Mooney44Cards;1161692 wrote:Then why do former players keep saying that they didn't know the risks? Lemme guess, they're lying, right?



News flash: not every person reacts the same to every health issue.

"Why hasn't someone who smoked 5 packs a day gotten lung cancer by the time they're 90? Must mean that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer!" <~~~~This is what you are saying. Look how dumb it is.



Hey, we can never get rid of it completely, so why even bother? AMIRITE GUYS?!

The amount of logic fallacies in this thread is above average.

What do you suggest we do then? and please stop putting little retarded questions and internet lingos at the end of your posts. it's just retarded.

DeyDurkie5;1161697 wrote:What do you suggest we do then? and please stop putting little retarded questions and internet lingos at the end of your posts. it's just retarded.

I suggest you debate in a logical manner instead of using logic fallacies. Maybe admit that there is more to the issue than "These guys know what they're getting into". Maybe admit that "I don't know enough about the issue to comment" instead of spitting out anecdotal opinions that fly in the face of what actual NFL veterans are saying, and what the medical community has found.

I don't get why everyone seems to take it so personally. I'm not advocating shutting down the NFL always and forever. Just saying they are not doing enough if people are dying. If dudes are shooting themselves in the chest to save their brain so we can learn more, it means we haven't learned enough. The NFL hasn't CAUSED this problem, but they haven't done enough, IN MY OPINION, to stop it or at least try.

Also, using the word "retarded" (twice no less) makes you pretty ignorant in my eyes. So I'm not too worried what you think about what I put at the end of my posts, at least its not offensive words.

Mooney44Cards;1161699 wrote:I suggest you debate in a logical manner instead of using logic fallacies. Maybe admit that there is more to the issue than "These guys know what they're getting into". Maybe admit that "I don't know enough about the issue to comment" instead of spitting out anecdotal opinions that fly in the face of what actual NFL veterans are saying, and what the medical community has found.

I don't get why everyone seems to take it so personally. I'm not advocating shutting down the NFL always and forever. Just saying they are not doing enough if people are dying. If dudes are shooting themselves in the chest to save their brain so we can learn more, it means we haven't learned enough. The NFL hasn't CAUSED this problem, but they haven't done enough, IN MY OPINION, to stop it or at least try.

Also, using the word "retarded" (twice no less) makes you pretty ignorant in my eyes. So I'm not too worried what you think about what I put at the end of my posts, at least its not offensive words.

So you read a couple stories on the internet, and it makes you the logical choice to rule the OC on this subject? People kill themselves from stress from the stock market. Should we stop doing that? Should we do more to stop that? It's a business. People have a choice if they want to go into the NFL. They get paid millions, and I would argue that over half the NFL hates these concussion tests because it takes them out of the game. The only reason this is happening is because hte media and people like you get their panties in a bunch over it. I personally think it's sad when someone kills themselves, but I don't think it's fair to blame the game. The game is what shaped their lives and shaped who they were. These people that are killing themselves are from the 90's and before. The NFL is doing a decent amount to curve that(kickoff rule, concussion tests, etc.).

Again, I ask what you think they should do? You didn't answer that in your first statement.

Also, I boo hoo I said retarded.

DeyDurkie5;1161706 wrote:So you read a couple stories on the internet, and it makes you the logical choice to rule the OC on this subject? People kill themselves from stress from the stock market. Should we stop doing that? Should we do more to stop that? It's a business. People have a choice if they want to go into the NFL. They get paid millions, and I would argue that over half the NFL hates these concussion tests because it takes them out of the game. The only reason this is happening is because hte media and people like you get their panties in a bunch over it. I personally think it's sad when someone kills themselves, but I don't think it's fair to blame the game. The game is what shaped their lives and shaped who they were. These people that are killing themselves are from the 90's and before. The NFL is doing a decent amount to curve that(kickoff rule, concussion tests, etc.).

Again, I ask what you think they should do? You didn't answer that in your first statement.

Also, I boo hoo I said retarded.

LOL So I use some phrases that you think are internet cliches and you get your panties up in a bunch like a whiny baby, you use word that is offensive to lots of people and its "boo hoo". Hypocrisy at its finest.

Also you used making millions as some sort of excuse for why its ok that this is happening. How much you make has no bearing on deserving to get a disease/die. And I'm not blaming the game, I'm blaming the lack of good equipment and the NFL's complete deliberate ignorance of the problem for over a decade (at least). It can be better. There was an NFL player in the 90's that wore a padded helmet that is significantly safer than what they use now, why aren't they using that? What excuse is there for not using the safest possible equipment? There is NO reason football helmets should be rigid on the outside, it creates more severe shock on impact than a padded helmet.

edit: Oh and yes, reading articles on a subject makes you more qualified to speak on a subject than people who back up their opinion with nothing more than hyperbole. That's how "research" and "knowledge" works. Even if it is just articles on the internet.

Mooney44Cards;1161712 wrote:LOL So I use some phrases that you think are internet cliches and you get your panties up in a bunch like a whiny baby, you use word that is offensive to lots of people and its "boo hoo". Hypocrisy at its finest.

Also you used making millions as some sort of excuse for why its ok that this is happening. How much you make has no bearing on deserving to get a disease/die. And I'm not blaming the game, I'm blaming the lack of good equipment and the NFL's complete deliberate ignorance of the problem for over a decade (at least). It can be better. There was an NFL player in the 90's that wore a padded helmet that is significantly safer than what they use now, why aren't they using that? What excuse is there for not using the safest possible equipment? There is NO reason football helmets should be rigid on the outside, it creates more severe shock on impact than a padded helmet.

edit: Oh and yes, reading articles on a subject makes you more qualified to speak on a subject than people who back up their opinion with nothing more than hyperbole. That's how "research" works. Even if it is just articles on the internet.

I'm not using the making millions thing as an excuse. IF they don't want to run the risk of getting hurt, then they shouldn't play football. It's as simple as that. I agree with you that in the past, the NFL was a dangerous game. But to say they haven't worked on that is just retarded. Player safety rules these days and the way the rules have been tweaked have significally improved player safety in general. The helmet thing is just a casualty of a tackling sport. Should hockey get rid of slapshots because sometimes pucks travel too high and hit them in the head? Should they get rid of checking? It's their choice to play the game. They know the risks, and they play the game. When their career is over, they want to sue because the helmets weren't good enough. it's bullshit to me.

You want leather helmets to be worn? That's your idea for a safer game?

DeyDurkie5;1161724 wrote:
You want leather helmets to be worn? That's your idea for a safer game?

Strawman argument again. Never said that.

Soft on the outside != leather helmets

Also, the NFL has done NOTHING for its former players who are victims of its complete (deliberate) ignorance of the problem. It's cool that they're JUST NOW starting to move in the right direction, but there are tons of guys out there that they aren't helping or even admitting that their problems were caused by football to begin with. It's sick and evil IMO.

Mooney44Cards;1161725 wrote:Strawman argument again. Never said that.

Soft on the outside != leather helmets

Then what helmet would you suggest? I mean you said the leather helmets back in the day were safe, so I assumed that's what you meant.

DeyDurkie5;1161727 wrote:Then what helmet would you suggest? I mean you said the leather helmets back in the day were safe, so I assumed that's what you meant.

Step 1: Take regular NFL helmet

Step 2: Add padding to the outside

Step 3: Use helmet

Mooney44Cards;1161729 wrote:Step 1: Take regular NFL helmet

Step 2: Add padding to the outside

Step 3: Use helmet

LOL brilliant! what about head on head collisions that cause spine, neck, brain problems? I mean you want a safer game, and all you bring to the table is "pad the helmet"

DeyDurkie5;1161731 wrote:LOL brilliant! what about head on head collisions that cause spine, neck, brain problems? I mean you want a safer game, and all you bring to the table is "pad the helmet"

Shocking that a regular guy on the internet without a medical degree doesn't have the complete and utter solution for a complicated issue. I imagine this is very hard for you to understand.

Not sure why I'm not allowed to want things to be safer without being labeled as some idiot who is attacking the NFL. Surely, if we want football to continue to be a sport there are some risks we must accept, but we should never EVER accept the status quo simply because we think that the problem will never COMPLETELY go away.

Anyways, former players routinely blowing their freaking hearts out of their chest and dying in crazy ways will catch up with the NFL sooner or later and people (like me more likely, and less like you) will stop watching if the NFL continues to pretend they didn't do anything wrong with all of these veterans.

The suicide rate among former NFL players is nearly six times the national average.

http://www.gamesover.org/retirement/when_the_cheering_stops

So I post an article that quotes a medical doctor who admits she's not sure how to alleviate the problem, and yet Mooney comes on here and thinks that he has the answers?

LOL at that. I'm fairly certain I speak for the majority of the people on this thread when I say: Mooney, go F*UCK yourself and your condescending attitude. Helmets with pads on the outside? That's as dumb of an idea as using leather helmets and still DOESN'T ALLEVIATE THE PROBLEM.

Mooney44Cards;1161729 wrote:Step 1: Take regular NFL helmet

Step 2: Add padding to the outside

Step 3: Use helmet

I would love to see you use this in a room of Goodell, other NFL executives, and head/brain doctors.

Lol god damn that would be hilarious

I'm going to drink my beer and re-read the padded helmets argument. It's just too funny to me.

DeyDurkie5;1161750 wrote:I'm going to drink my beer and re-read the padded helmets argument. It's just too funny to me.

What kind of beer? (reps are on the line here)

lhslep134;1161751 wrote:What kind of beer? (reps are on the line here)

Sierra Nevada of course

DeyDurkie5;1161752 wrote:Sierra Nevada of course

Reps when I can (gotta spread the love around first). Should just start giving it to everyone who has pointed out Mooney's idiocy on this thread.