First, Writer is correct on Mack being selected by the Steelers if the Browns didn't take him. It was a good pick considering the circumstances.

With Holmgren, it comes down to one decision. Lerner wants to keep Mangini while Holmgren wants to fire him and bring in his own GM who will help him select the HC. There is no issue on money or other powers, just this one imo.

My problem with Alex Mack's selection isn't in the quality of player. He has improved all season. My issue is that they left Michael Oher on the board to corner the seventh round with more picks.

Tell me 10 seasons of Thomas and Oher as your bookends wouldn't rock.

Also, on a team with a significant LB need, you do not draft Brian Robiskie to allow Rey Maualuga to kick your ass twice a year in Cincinnati.

Veikune was an awful reach. He won't make the team next year.

Fidmeister, you have to remember that every other team in the NFL passed up on Maualuga also sometimes twice. It wasn't just Cleveland who didn't pull the trigger when you consider Rey was projected 1st rounder tha slipped into the 2nd round. Yes, it would be great to have him but everyone is making it out to be Cleveland was the only team to over look Rey.

Is their a good long snapper in this draft????

Mr. 300 wrote: Is their a good long snapper in this draft????

If they were drafting douchebag's you would be the #1 prospect.

devil1197 wrote:

Mr. 300 wrote: Is their a good long snapper in this draft????

If they were drafting douchebag's you would be the #1 prospect.

Ouch, that really hurt. You're one tough internet guy.

Wow hypocrit with your Leboob crap.

Keep talking shit, its about the only thing you are good for on this site.

miller45452003 wrote:

EliteRain20 wrote: of course washington fired their damn VP of operations. holmgren coming to cleveland would help the browns. so its only natural he goes some where else :/

Maybe C-Town still does have hope. They already hired a VP/GM.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/17/redskins-hire-bruce-allen/

ha i seen that right after i posted that. espn is reporting that holmgren has another meeting set up to come back to cleveland.

If he has another meeting set up then that is a very good sign. I have a feeling that the HC position is the issue at hand.

devil1197 wrote: If he has another meeting set up then that is a very good sign. I have a feeling that the HC position is the issue at hand.

I don't understand why that would be an issue. It seems Lerner wants his 'Czar' to have complete control over football operations. Wouldn't that mean head coach position as well? Give Holmgren the reigns and tell him to have at it.

They said they havent spoken about money yet. Holmgren left but sources said they would still be in contact with each other in the coming days.

pkebker wrote:

devil1197 wrote: If he has another meeting set up then that is a very good sign. I have a feeling that the HC position is the issue at hand.

I don't understand why that would be an issue. It seems Lerner wants his 'Czar' to have complete control over football operations. Wouldn't that mean head coach position as well? Give Holmgren the reigns and tell him to have at it.

Complete control over selecting the new GM and working with him on the draft, but I think Lerner wants to keep Mangini for at least another year to try and create some form of consistentcy within the organization. Holmgren would have complete control over selecting the GM and then working with both the GM and Mangini on the drafting, FA, etc.

Writerbuckeye wrote:

Laley23 wrote: The problem wasnt as much with the players Mangini drafted it was where they were drafted. Robiskie in round 2??? Mack couldve been had in the second round, easily. Basically our top 3 picks could have been had a round later. That wouldve allowed us to take someone else on the board. Beanie (first name I remember) was available, as well as some others.

You're wrong.

There were several credible reports that said the Steelers were going to draft Mack if the Browns didn't take him.

There were credible reports that several teams (can't recall who now) were interested in Robiskie and would have taken him later in that same round. Now that I think of it, I believe the Bears were one of those teams and someone actually came out and said they would have taken him.

The Browns had so many holes to fill that just about any picks would have left holes elsewhere -- allowing anyone to make an argument they should have drafted differently.

We won't know whether this was really a decent draft for another year or two. If the players taken in the top 3 rounds turn out to be productive NFL players, then it will be deemed a success.

If not...then Mangini deserves every bit of criticism he gets.

Exactly! People who already say this is a horrible draft do not know football. Make a complete judgement on someone based on their rookie season? Thats laughable. Also I don't know what the beef is with drafting a center. The guy is playing pretty well.

devil1197 wrote: Wow hypocrit with your Leboob crap.

Keep talking shit, its about the only thing you are good for on this site.

Ummm, isn't this a Browns thread??? I know we should all bow down before your greatness, seeing how you played at a professional level(snicker), or at least you want everyone hanging on each word you spew, but get over yourself. I've been right about Pryor, and also about Lebron. Deal with it.

Mr. 300 wrote:

devil1197 wrote: Wow hypocrit with your Leboob crap.

Keep talking shit, its about the only thing you are good for on this site.

Ummm, isn't this a Browns thread??? I know we should all bow down before your greatness, seeing how you played at a professional level(snicker), or at least you want everyone hanging on each word you spew, but get over yourself. I've been right about Pryor, and also about Lebron. Deal with it.

Yeah so right with 18-3 as a starter, B10 Freshman of the year, 2 Big Ten titles, 2 BCS appearances just as a sophmore. This is without any proper coaching going into college. Sorry he doesn't throw the ball they way you'd like, but he has come a long way from being an athlete to starting QB. He will only get better after notching a W in the Rose Bowl in a few weeks.

And how are you right about LeBron? Sorry he wasn't handed a franchise that already had solid parts to it and a playoff contender.

You are a typical douchebag who tries to be clever by saying Leboob without backing anything up. Mr.Douchebag300 shall be your new name.

Wow, you're so original with your banter. Where do you come up with this stuff??? Your buddies during study hall???Better watch how you handle things though, may come back to bite you.

Mr. 300 wrote: Wow, you're so original with your banter. Where do you come up with this stuff??? Your buddies during study hall???Better watch how you handle things though, may come back to bite you.

Ooooohhhh it may come back to bite me, sounds pretty serious. Very scared.

Its very original, you like to call people names so its very fitting for you to have a name yourself.

Back to the subject.

The Holmgren deal could be resolved pretty quickly, I'd say by the end of the weekend. I am pretty torn on whether or not I'd take Holmgren if it mean't firing another HC once again.

Holmgren >>>>>>>> Mangini.

I think Mangini should get another year based on the past few weeks, but I still don't think he's a good head coach at all and if it takes him being gone to get Holmgren in here you do it immediately.

Mulva wrote: Holmgren >>>>>>>> Mangini.

I think Mangini should get another year based on the past few weeks, but I still don't think he's a good head coach at all and if it takes him being gone to get Holmgren in here you do it immediately.

I agree with most of this statement. I don't think he's as bad as you think as a coach, he has shown in the past that he can win games. he deserves another year, because he has a team playing hard that really has no reason to play hard. However, if firing him is the only way to get Holmgren, then absolutely. I believe in Mike.

Honestly, I don't want another coaching change and I've liked how the players have responded to Mangini when I've watched Browns teams quit on coaches like Romeo and Butch.

That said, it would appear (from what I'm reading on my Browns board) that complete authority to hire/fire the head coach coming in the door might be the one sticking point in negotiations with Holmgren right now.

If true, I would expect Randy to cave in by this weekend or early next week at the latest and give Holmgren the control he's seeking -- just to get him on the job.

I want Holmgren as the head of football operations so I'm willing to let him make the call on head coach, even if I believe it will set the franchise back by changing coaches yet again.

Writer, the key for Cleveland if they let Mangini go is to retain Ryan immediately. This will keep the Browns best unit together because even with a new HC, Ryan will not change his schemes. I truly think the Browns like Ryan's fire and passion while he is coaching which is very good to hear.

Lerner will cave sometime soon, very soon I feel and that will be good because Holmgren needs to get in the organization soon to evaluate the players and coaches. The sooner you get Holmgren the sooner you get your GM.

Once those guys are in place, Cleveland has some thinking to do. What positions to draft first, hopefully they are thinking LB and S/CB. Do you keep Jennings, Harrison, and Davis or draft another RB early after getting the defense selected. What do you do with Anderson and do they think Quinn is the answer? Hell the new guys may come in and select a QB with the first pick, from what it looks like Holmgren and the new GM will have complete control!

Supposedly there is a slight chance that Holmgren talks about the possibility of accepting the Browns positions on his radio show today.

devil1197 wrote: Supposedly there is a slight chance that Holmgren talks about the possibility of accepting the Browns positions on his radio show today.

Source? This would be very interesting if true...

There is always a slight chance I'll win the lottery but I don't start rumors about it.