Tribe Spring Training 2012

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wes_mantooth

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Apr 1, 2012 10:35 AM
royal_k;1133662 wrote:Pomeranz goes 6 shut out innings and improves to 3-0 this spring with a 0.53 ERA. Nice trade........

It is just spring training, but I do feel we will look back at this trade as a complete disaster
Apr 1, 2012 10:35am
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like_that

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Apr 1, 2012 10:41 AM
royal_k;1133662 wrote:Pomeranz goes 6 shut out innings and improves to 3-0 this spring with a 0.53 ERA. Nice trade........
wes_mantooth;1133677 wrote:It is just spring training, but I do feel we will look back at this trade as a complete disaster
Like I said, he is already projected to be the 3rd pitcher in the Rockies rotation. That is about as good as I expect Ubaldo to be for the tribe at the very best. That was a stupid fucking knee jerk reaction trade. Pomeranz would have been ready to pitch for the Tribe this year. Fuck Dolan.
Apr 1, 2012 10:41am
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HitsRus

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Apr 1, 2012 11:21 AM
It is just spring training, but I do feel we will look back at this trade as a complete disaster
Even if it an 'even' trade this year and the next, Pomerantz will be pitching for the Rockies for 4 more years after Ubaldo is gone. The only way this trade is not the worst made by this crew(and that's saying a lot)...is if White and Pomerantz are complete busts or blow their arms out. The only way this works out for the Tribe is if we make the playoffs/win the pennant/win the Series within the next two years.....but this group and the owner has not shown anything that makes me believe they even intend to try.
Apr 1, 2012 11:21am
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Footwedge

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Apr 1, 2012 2:05 PM
BRF;1133713 wrote:Seeing this Ubaldo stuff reminded me to look back at the poll I made after the trade for some interesting reading.

http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?27386-Public-Poll-on-the-Tribe-trade-for-Ubaldo&highlight=Ubaldo+poll
BRF....I hate to say to the board...."I told you so". LOL.

People are so quick to forget....the mid 90's tribe was built through the Whites and Pomeranzes of the world. The tribe drafted a few studa like Joey Belle, Thome and Manny. Then they traded the few people that had some major league impact...for people like Sandy A, Kenny, Carlos and later Roberto.

A small market team HAS to win this way. Stop gapping a Ubaldo for 2 premo prospects was as bad as it gets.

If I were GM, I would go back to the John Hart model. I would start by trading Astrubal and possibly Choo...for great prospects. This team has a couple of good youg players in Kipnis and Santana. The rest are expendible and should be dumped for boatloads of prospects...just as Hart did.

In the early 90's, the tribe lost about 180 games per year. Tribe needs to start completely over.
Apr 1, 2012 2:05pm
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HitsRus

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Apr 1, 2012 2:29 PM
^^^interesting reading, BRF.....but even if you were for the trade before,...or like me, had mixed feelings....that which were the 'positives' of the trade seemed to have evaporated as quickly as our division lead did last summer. IF Jimenez was a front end of the rotation pitcher, and IF the Tribe was going to make a run at post-season, THEN one could possibly justify the trade of two highly regarded prospects that you had control of for 6+ years, for a front line starter that you will only be keeping for 2 years. I have seen nothing that indicates that the team is going all out to win in the 'window of opportunity'....nor have I seen front line stuff from Jimenez. The guy was supposed to be throwing 98....the team sounds happy he's throwing 92. What's up with that????

I would start by trading Astrubal and possibly Choo...for great prospects. This team has a couple of good youg players in Kipnis and Santana. The rest are expendible and should be dumped for boatloads of prospects...just as Hart did.
Great idea...but can these guys trade without being taken?
Apr 1, 2012 2:29pm
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grodt

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Apr 1, 2012 3:06 PM
Sources say the Indians are close to extending Asdrubal through 2014. Not official yet
Apr 1, 2012 3:06pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 1, 2012 3:21 PM
BRF;1133713 wrote:Seeing this Ubaldo stuff reminded me to look back at the poll I made after the trade for some interesting reading.

http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?27386-Public-Poll-on-the-Tribe-trade-for-Ubaldo&highlight=Ubaldo+poll
Apparently Tim Kurkjian was on ESPN this morning ripping this trade saying the Tribe was banking on Ubaldo returning to his earlier form which is VERY unlikely to happen.
Apr 1, 2012 3:21pm
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Al Bundy

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Apr 1, 2012 3:29 PM
Footwedge;1133890 wrote:BRF....I hate to say to the board...."I told you so". LOL.

People are so quick to forget....the mid 90's tribe was built through the Whites and Pomeranzes of the world. The tribe drafted a few studa like Joey Belle, Thome and Manny. Then they traded the few people that had some major league impact...for people like Sandy A, Kenny, Carlos and later Roberto.

A small market team HAS to win this way. Stop gapping a Ubaldo for 2 premo prospects was as bad as it gets.

If I were GM, I would go back to the John Hart model. I would start by trading Astrubal and possibly Choo...for great prospects. This team has a couple of good youg players in Kipnis and Santana. The rest are expendible and should be dumped for boatloads of prospects...just as Hart did.

In the early 90's, the tribe lost about 180 games per year. Tribe needs to start completely over.
The teams of the 90's also signed several key free agents such as Robbie, Loften (second time), Murray, Martinez, and Hershiser. I don't see this ownership group making moves like that.
Apr 1, 2012 3:29pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 1, 2012 4:08 PM
sportswizuhrd;1132280 wrote:I saw some MLB writers wondering why they just don't sign Johnny Damon, and gave the point that Damon had better numbers than Abreu last year.

Hmmmm....

http://networkedblogs.com/vSURd
Apr 1, 2012 4:08pm
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wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

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Apr 1, 2012 4:21 PM
BR1986FB;1133970 wrote:Hmmmm....

http://networkedblogs.com/vSURd
sweet...this seems right up Dolans alley. Not sure what to do with that cannon of an arm he has in the outfield...lol
Apr 1, 2012 4:21pm
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BRF

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Apr 1, 2012 4:27 PM
Interesting link, BR. I can hardly believe Damon is 38! Might as well go for him at this point. How about that dorky picture of Wedge? Ha ha
Apr 1, 2012 4:27pm
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Footwedge

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Apr 1, 2012 6:34 PM
Al Bundy;1133947 wrote:The teams of the 90's also signed several key free agents such as Robbie, Loften (second time), Murray, Martinez, and Hershiser. I don't see this ownership group making moves like that.
They didn't sign any of those pieces until they had annihilated the AL in 95. By that time, sellouts were a daily certainty, and money was flowing.

That team was built through the draft and a few incredibly shrewd trades....not free agency.
Apr 1, 2012 6:34pm
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Al Bundy

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Apr 1, 2012 6:40 PM
Footwedge;1134060 wrote:They didn't sign any of those pieces until they had annihilated the AL in 95. By that time, sellouts were a daily certainty, and money was flowing.

That team was built through the draft and a few incredibly shrewd trades....not free agency.
They signed Martinez and Murray after the 93 season. A year in which they went 76-86. The signed Hershiser after the 94 season, when they had still gone 40 years without making the playoffs. Those guys were all key parts in taking the 95 team to the World Series.
Apr 1, 2012 6:40pm
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Footwedge

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Apr 1, 2012 6:40 PM
BR1986FB;1133941 wrote:Apparently Tim Kurkjian was on ESPN this morning ripping this trade saying the Tribe was banking on Ubaldo returning to his earlier form which is VERY unlikely to happen.
What I would say to Kirtjian....what earlier form? He had one hot stretch in his entire career. People think just because someone can light up a radar gun, that they are somehow destined for Cooperstown. The man has a lifetime 4 bb/ 9 innings. He's been around long enough to straighten that out.

If I was running things, he'd be traded ASAP for new prospects. Let some other team deal with his hype.
Apr 1, 2012 6:40pm
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grodt

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Apr 1, 2012 6:45 PM
Sounds like a frickin soap opera in Arizona today. During the Indians/Rockies game Ubaldo hit Tulowitzki in the arm. The two of them jawed at each other for a bit before being separated. Tulo had to leave the game to get X-Rays. Ubaldo stayed in but got bombed.

Speaking now about it Ubaldo says it wasn't intentional and he only got upset when Tulo called him a pussy and a chicken. Fascinating shit.
Apr 1, 2012 6:45pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

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Apr 1, 2012 6:47 PM
grodt;1134068 wrote:Sounds like a frickin soap opera in Arizona today. During the Indians/Rockies game Ubaldo hit Tulowitzki in the arm. The two of them jawed at each other for a bit before being separated. Tulo had to leave the game to get X-Rays. Ubaldo stayed in but got bombed.

Speaking now about it Ubaldo says it wasn't intentional and he only got upset when Tulo called him a pussy and a chicken. Fascinating shit.
Wait, so Ubaldo got pissed because Tulo told the truth?
Apr 1, 2012 6:47pm
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Footwedge

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Apr 1, 2012 6:57 PM
Al Bundy;1134064 wrote:They signed Martinez and Murray after the 93 season. A year in which they went 76-86. The signed Hershiser after the 94 season, when they had still gone 40 years without making the playoffs. Those guys were all key parts in taking the 95 team to the World Series.
I am wrong on my time frame on those 3 guys. So I apologize for that. But with Jacobs field opening up, and the emergence of Belle, Baerga, Loften, Sandy and Omar, it wasn't that hard to pay for people who were supposedly washed up and in the twilight of their careers. Murray was 38 when he signed.

This Indians team has only 5 players groomed through the draft...and it is fruitless to throw money after free agents.

Joe Carter for Baerga and Sandy. Remember the outrage? Eddie Taubensee for Kenny Loften. How about Felix Fermin and some other scrub for HOFer Omar. And then we home grew Thome, Manny, and Joey.

The team was built through the draft and trades. And then they signed some old people to fill things out.
Apr 1, 2012 6:57pm
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hoops23

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Apr 1, 2012 7:00 PM
People can talk about Ubaldo all they want, but Masterson has been just as bad.

Pomeranz is likely going to be a stud and I did hate giving him up, but I thought the Ubaldo trade would be the first of a couple moves designed to vastly improve the team.

Seeing as it wasn't and the Tribe didn't do anything of substance, I hate the trade. I don't miss Alex White too much because he got bombed last season for Colorado and turned out to be a bitch, plus he got busted for a major DUI in the offseason.
Apr 1, 2012 7:00pm
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Al Bundy

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Apr 1, 2012 7:24 PM
Footwedge;1134074 wrote:I am wrong on my time frame on those 3 guys. So I apologize for that. But with Jacobs field opening up, and the emergence of Belle, Baerga, Loften, Sandy and Omar, it wasn't that hard to pay for people who were supposedly washed up and in the twilight of their careers. Murray was 38 when he signed.

This Indians team has only 5 players groomed through the draft...and it is fruitless to throw money after free agents.

Joe Carter for Baerga and Sandy. Remember the outrage? Eddie Taubensee for Kenny Loften. How about Felix Fermin and some other scrub for HOFer Omar. And then we home grew Thome, Manny, and Joey.

The team was built through the draft and trades. And then they signed some old people to fill things out.
If hitting .323 and having 2 of the top 3 guys in the rotation were "old people to fill things out", we could use some old people to fill things out now. I agree that the core parts have to from within, but they have to be willing to make some moves. Other mid-market teams such as Detroit go after pieces. The tribe doesn't even try. People will support an organization that is making an effort. It is much harder to support a team that has an owner that just doesn't care.
Apr 1, 2012 7:24pm
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HitsRus

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Apr 2, 2012 9:44 AM
Jimenez lit up again in his final tune up for the season.:(
Apr 2, 2012 9:44am
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TBone14

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Apr 2, 2012 12:41 PM
Baseball is such a long season. The last thing these guys are gonna do is get burned out caring about Spring Training. They will all have the switched flipped come Thursday. I don't think they beat Romero on Thursday but they will be ready to go. Let's let games that actually matter be played before we start getting too worried. Many baseball writers have the Tribe picked as a sleeper type team. I have high hopes and don't think the Tigers are going to be the '27 Yankees. I don't see Fielder matching his numbers from last year without getting to the play the Cubs, Pirates and Astros 55 times.

A small sample of Spring Training meaning absolutely nothing.

Royals had the best winning % in Spring Training last year. Didn't mean anything.
Twins went 20-12. Best record in the Grapefruit League. Finished last in the Central.
Arizona had the 2nd worst record all spring. 12-25. Won the NL West and nearly played .600 baseball.
Yankees and Red Sox were both under .500.

Spring Training 2010 the Tribe went 19-9. How did that work out for us?
The Rangers, losers to the Giants in the World Series, were a Catcus league worst 10-19.

Just like the NFL Preseason..it doesn't matter. The players don't even take it seriously.

You ever go to bar and play pool or darts for money? Or even a summertime Cornhole tournament. You are running the table/boards. 5/10/20 bucks a game. Next guy up says..oh..I don't play for money. So you play him but you just don't have the focus. It doesn't mean anything to you. That's Spring Training to MLB players.
Apr 2, 2012 12:41pm
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IggyPride00

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Apr 2, 2012 5:46 PM
If Jiminez some how turns it around and has 2 great seasons he officially became unsignable for this organization today with the new deal Matt Cain signed with the Giants.
Apr 2, 2012 5:46pm
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like_that

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Apr 2, 2012 6:01 PM
IggyPride00;1134669 wrote:If (insert any player on the tribe) some how turns it around (or on) and has 2 great seasons he officially becomes unsignable for this organization which is the way it has been for the past 10+ years now.
FIFY
Apr 2, 2012 6:01pm
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grodt

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Apr 2, 2012 6:08 PM
Jimenez suspended 5 games and suspended an undisclosed amount for hitting Tulowitzski.
Apr 2, 2012 6:08pm