Archive HHS mandate on Catholic and other religious institutions

Captain Cavalier

Posts: 208

Feb 5, 2012 11:45am

Now obama is trying to force Catholic and other religious institutions to comply against their faith in forcing them to cover contraceptives, abortion type drugs and sterilization.

Bad move and wrong. :thumbdown:

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-me-0204-contraception-20120204,0,7288220.story

sleeper

Posts: 27,879

Feb 5, 2012 12:00pm

Birth control should be free. I'll pay whatever it takes in taxes to get it done. We are overpopulated and its much cheaper to fund birth control for everyone than pay for all these new welfare babies popping out left and right.

If these religious institutions don't like it, they can GTFO. Hopefully by refusing this legislation the government looks long and hard at removing their non-profit status and makes it illegal for churches to take money. Religion corrupts the intellectual integrity of people and the quicker it goes away, the better off we as a nation will be.

dwccrew

Posts: 7,817

Feb 5, 2012 1:21pm

sleeper;1075734 wrote:Birth control should be free. I'll pay whatever it takes in taxes to get it done. We are overpopulated and its much cheaper to fund birth control for everyone than pay for all these new welfare babies popping out left and right.

If these religious institutions don't like it, they can GTFO. Hopefully by refusing this legislation the government looks long and hard at removing their non-profit status and makes it illegal for churches to take money. Religion corrupts the intellectual integrity of people and the quicker it goes away, the better off we as a nation will be.

I agree in theory, however, most the people that SHOULD be on birth control would either not take advantage of free birth control or not take it/use it properly. Losing battle. Pay them X amount of dollars to voluntarily get sterilized.

BGFalcons82

Posts: 2,173

Feb 5, 2012 3:17pm

Catholics give Dems a pass on the churches abortion stance, so they'll get over this hurdle as well. A little bloviation goes a long way.

Interesting a Paulist is all for a government mandate for forced contraception. Isn't he against federal intrusion into our lives?

HitsRus

Posts: 9,206

Feb 5, 2012 3:23pm

haha^^^ noticed that too.

This is just another reason that we need a change of leadership. He's not afraid to use government to mandate what is abhorrent to close to half the population...he'll not be afraid to use it any and elsewhere too.
Hope the Paul-bots take note of yet another difference between BHO and the Republican field.

C

Con_Alma

Posts: 12,198

Feb 5, 2012 3:55pm

I hope the Catholic church stands rue to their core convictions. If the government forces certain actions by catholic institutions they should just stop being provided by the catholic church.

The Catholic church stopped providing adoption services when the government forced ther hand. For that I respect them.

majorspark

Posts: 5,122

Feb 5, 2012 3:59pm

sleeper;1075734 wrote:Birth control should be free. I'll pay whatever it takes in taxes to get it done. We are overpopulated and its much cheaper to fund birth control for everyone than pay for all these new welfare babies popping out left and right.

Yeah back in the 1930's people thought the same thing. They didn't want to pay for the slouches either and the central planners came up with a great plan.

sleeper;1075734 wrote:If these religious institutions don't like it, they can GTFO. Hopefully by refusing this legislation the government looks long and hard at removing their non-profit status and makes it illegal for churches to take money. Religion corrupts the intellectual integrity of people and the quicker it goes away, the better off we as a nation will be.

"Non-profit" status for any institution needs looked at including those with religious affiliations. The rest of what you say sounds more in line with Marx or Lennin's school of thought. The Soviet Union and other socialist states tried to control or eliminate it. Didn't work.

Captain Cavalier

Posts: 208

Feb 5, 2012 4:01pm

Wow.

If you believe in birth control, abortion or sterilizations is not the issue.

Mandating religious instituions to offer them against their faith is the issue...and is wrong.

If one doesn't agree with their views then don't work there.

tk421

Posts: 8,500

Feb 5, 2012 4:21pm

If Obama mandated that any other religion than Christianity had to do something like this, it'd be all over the news and there'd be big trouble. No one cares about the Christians, but I'd like to see Obama mandate that Islamic organizations have to do something that is against their religion.

believer

Posts: 8,153

Feb 5, 2012 4:26pm

sleeper;1075734 wrote:Birth control should be free. I'll pay whatever it takes in taxes to get it done. We are overpopulated and its much cheaper to fund birth control for everyone than pay for all these new welfare babies popping out left and right.

If these religious institutions don't like it, they can GTFO. Hopefully by refusing this legislation the government looks long and hard at removing their non-profit status and makes it illegal for churches to take money. Religion corrupts the intellectual integrity of people and the quicker it goes away, the better off we as a nation will be.

Screw that separation of church and state thing, right?

Ya gotta love Paulist libertarians. Big Gubmint needs to stay the hell out of our pocketbooks....unless, of course, they're paying to kill the innocent unborn to make the world safe from screaming kids. :rolleyes:

Captain Cavalier

Posts: 208

Feb 5, 2012 5:04pm

Ahhh yes, the "Separation of church and state" phrase.

The phrase that's used countless times yet is no where in our constitution.

There is however an amendment saying "Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Hmmm, congress mandating that a religious group go against their faith?

pmoney25

Posts: 1,787

Feb 5, 2012 5:21pm

Yea im all against govt mandating anything like this. Govt shouldnt be allowed to tell businesses, churches, organizations what they have to offer. Once you allow this to happen the govt will keep pushing the line further and further.

Whether you believe in christianity or not doesnt matter. This is wrong and not the america I want to live in.

believer

Posts: 8,153

Feb 5, 2012 7:25pm

Captain Cavalier;1076049 wrote:Ahhh yes, the "Separation of church and state" phrase.

The phrase that's used countless times yet is no where in our constitution.

There is however an amendment saying "Congress shall make no LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Hmmm, congress mandating that a religious group go against their faith?

That's correct.

Unfortunately that phrase has also been used countless times by activist judges and gubmint agencies to, for example, remove just about any type of religious activity (except Islam of course) from public schools, nativity scenes from courthouse lawns, etc., etc.

If the government can tell religion to stay out of public affairs, why can't religion tell government to stay out of religious affairs?

These things have to be making Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Minh, Mao and others smile from their - um - "collective" grave.

sleeper

Posts: 27,879

Feb 5, 2012 7:29pm

BGFalcons82;1075906 wrote:Catholics give Dems a pass on the churches abortion stance, so they'll get over this hurdle as well. A little bloviation goes a long way.

Interesting a Paulist is all for a government mandate for forced contraception. Isn't he against federal intrusion into our lives?

Right, because I think Ron Paul is the best candidate we have available means I agree with him on all policies. Can I use this for when you clownballs vote for Romney and he comes out with the inevitable stupid policy that increases spending and ruins the nation?

BGFalcons82

Posts: 2,173

Feb 5, 2012 7:50pm

sleeper;1076164 wrote:Right, because I think Ron Paul is the best candidate we have available means I agree with him on all policies. Can I use this for when you clownballs vote for Romney and he comes out with the inevitable stupid policy that increases spending and ruins the nation?

If you believe for 1 second that Dr. Paul is for federal intervention into every American's life to mandate birth control, you have absolutely no idea what he represents.

Clownball, eh? Is that how you pedsuade people to listen?

B

Bigdogg

Posts: 1,429

Feb 5, 2012 9:36pm

tk421;1076004 wrote:If Obama mandated that any other religion than Christianity had to do something like this, it'd be all over the news and there'd be big trouble. No one cares about the Christians, but I'd like to see Obama mandate that Islamic organizations have to do something that is against their religion.

You do understand an Islamic hospital would have to offer the same right? Xoxo
So my wife who is not catholic but works in a catholic hospital cant have her insurance cover birth control? Bull shit. By the way viagra is covered lol! They want to maintain non profit staus they need to offer what every other dose

sleeper

Posts: 27,879

Feb 5, 2012 10:01pm

BGFalcons82;1076196 wrote:If you believe for 1 second that Dr. Paul is for federal intervention into every American's life to mandate birth control, you have absolutely no idea what he represents.

Clownball, eh? Is that how you pedsuade people to listen?

So by voting for a candiate you agree with 100% everything that he believes? LOL You're a fraud.

Also note, I never said mandate BC, I said make it free.

pmoney25

Posts: 1,787

Feb 5, 2012 10:14pm

Bigdogg;1076411 wrote:You do understand an Islamic hospital would have to offer the same right? Xoxo
So my wife who is not catholic but works in a catholic hospital cant have her insurance cover birth control? Bull ****. By the way viagra is covered lol! They want to maintain non profit staus they need to offer what every other dose

No they don't need to offer anything. If your wife wants better health insurance coverage, she can go work somewhere else and since when is Viagra used as a contraception? I fail to see the similarity in why you mentioned that. I am not catholic and don't even necessarily agree with their view on birth control, however the Federal Government has no right to force someone to give free birth control to their employees.

I

I Wear Pants

Posts: 16,223

Feb 5, 2012 10:42pm

Captain Cavalier;1075968 wrote:Wow.

If you believe in birth control, abortion or sterilizations is not the issue.

Mandating religious instituions to offer them against their faith is the issue...and is wrong.

If one doesn't agree with their views then don't work there.

Do they receive any money from the government or get tax breaks/don't pay taxes?

If the answer is yes to any of those then they can stop whining and provide contraception like intelligent people.

Anyone who doesn't support the use of contraceptives and other methods to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies whether they believe this for religious reasons or otherwise is an idiot.

majorspark

Posts: 5,122

Feb 5, 2012 10:46pm

Bigdogg;1076411 wrote:So my wife who is not catholic but works in a catholic hospital cant have her insurance cover birth control? Bull shit. By the way viagra is covered lol! They want to maintain non profit staus they need to offer what every other dose

I can only imagine how tough it is for a man with Erectile Disfunction. At least your wife's employer covers your viagra.

BGFalcons82

Posts: 2,173

Feb 5, 2012 10:48pm

sleeper;1076520 wrote:So by voting for a candiate you agree with 100% everything that he believes? LOL You're a fraud.

Also note, I never said mandate BC, I said make it free.

No, I was merely pointing out that one of Paul's biggest cheerleader's on the OC is in diametric polar opposition to Dr. Paul's philosophy. In other words, the fraudulent one is the one that doesn't know squat about his candidate.

Free? FREE?? Nothing is free and you know better. However, if you do believe in free lunches, then you should be banging Barry's drum, not Ron's. Although, voting for Paul helps Barry, so maybe I get your point now.

sleeper

Posts: 27,879

Feb 5, 2012 11:09pm

BGFalcons82;1076628 wrote:No, I was merely pointing out that one of Paul's biggest cheerleader's on the OC is in diametric polar opposition to Dr. Paul's philosophy. In other words, the fraudulent one is the one that doesn't know squat about his candidate.

Free? FREE?? Nothing is free and you know better. However, if you do believe in free lunches, then you should be banging Barry's drum, not Ron's. Although, voting for Paul helps Barry, so maybe I get your point now.

So when you cast your vote for Romney are you going convert to Mormonism?

ts1227

Posts: 12,319

Feb 5, 2012 11:15pm

Catholicism is dumb

Hope this helps

dwccrew

Posts: 7,817

Feb 5, 2012 11:16pm

BGFalcons82;1075906 wrote:Catholics give Dems a pass on the churches abortion stance, so they'll get over this hurdle as well. A little bloviation goes a long way.

Interesting a Paulist is all for a government mandate for forced contraception. Isn't he against federal intrusion into our lives?

He (sleeper) never said it should be mandated, he said it should be free. There's a big difference there.

believer;1076011 wrote:Screw that separation of church and state thing, right?

Ya gotta love Paulist libertarians. Big Gubmint needs to stay the hell out of our pocketbooks....unless, of course, they're paying to kill the innocent unborn to make the world safe from screaming kids. :rolleyes:

Again, sleeper said birth control should be free, not mandated. And what exactly does that have to do with killing the unborn? Nothing.

BGFalcons82;1076196 wrote:If you believe for 1 second that Dr. Paul is for federal intervention into every American's life to mandate birth control, you have absolutely no idea what he represents.

Clownball, eh? Is that how you pedsuade people to listen?

I think what he was saying is he doesn't agree with everything Dr. Paul believes, but he does still believe Dr. Paul is the best canidate (which I agree with).

BGFalcons82;1076628 wrote:No, I was merely pointing out that one of Paul's biggest cheerleader's on the OC is in diametric polar opposition to Dr. Paul's philosophy. In other words, the fraudulent one is the one that doesn't know squat about his candidate.

Free? FREE?? Nothing is free and you know better. However, if you do believe in free lunches, then you should be banging Barry's drum, not Ron's. Although, voting for Paul helps Barry, so maybe I get your point now.

sleeper even admitted he'd be willing to pay higher taxes in order to provide free birth control to people. It'd be offered, not mandated, for no charge to the person (charged to the taxpayer, which sleeper said he'd gladly pay for).

sleeper

Posts: 27,879

Feb 5, 2012 11:23pm

Thanks dw. Reps.