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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 11:23am
I haven't forgotten. In fact I often point to it. I think fan is used too liberally with regards to people who like the NFL. Just because you go to games or like a team doesn't mean you are a fan. The Cincinnati franchise is seeing that now. They aren't attracting people to the stadium. It isn't the fans that you need. The fans are blind enough to allways be there. Its the edge sports entertainment dollars that are your growth revenue. Cincinnati is failing with those folks.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 11:26am
Entertainment is subjective. The people of Cincinnati are clearly saying with their wallet that winning isn't enough to attract them. Sports is a specialized entertainment industry. If the people don't like what is being offered their money is spent elsewhere.DeyDurkie5;1027267 wrote:we wil just agree to disagree with this one...your idea seems to be entertainment should be given. winning is entertainment and the only thing that matters in the nfl. therefore they should be able to fill the seats with that given entertainment.
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Dec 26, 2011 11:30am
it's not the "entertainment" that is causing them to miss games...it's the ownership of the company. They feel mike brown sucks, and think it's fair to the team to not go to the games. it has nothing to do with entertainment.Con_Alma;1027275 wrote:Entertainment is subjective. The people of Cincinnati are clearly saying with their wallet that winning isn't enough to attract them. Sports is a specialized entertainment industry. If the people don't like what is being offered their money is spent elsewhere.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 11:35am
His personality, public presence and front office historical activities add to the entire package of the product delivered to the people. He is part of it. If he wasn't, it wouldn't matter. WHo the owner is and what they do doesn't happen in a vacuum.DeyDurkie5;1027279 wrote:it's not the "entertainment" that is causing them to miss games...it's the ownership of the company. They feel mike brown sucks, and think it's fair to the team to not go to the games. it has nothing to do with entertainment.
It's why I said it isn't just about winning.
I don't know what "fair"ness has to do with it. The people owe the team nothing.
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Dec 26, 2011 11:37am
agree to disagree conalma..no point in going on with thisCon_Alma;1027284 wrote:His personality, public presence and front office historical activities add to the entire package of the product delivered to the people. He is part of it. If he wasn't, it wouldn't matter. WHo the owner is and what they do doesn't happen in a vacuum.
It's why I said it isn't just about winning.
I don't know what "fair"ness has to do with it. The people owe the team nothing.
ytownfootball
Posts: 6,978
Dec 26, 2011 11:38am
Well now this is just chock full of fail so let's dissect it
The overwhelming majority I would assume are indeed "fans". That is a simple enough concept considering the money spent to attend and it's not debatable. You don't purchase 3 tickets and take the neighbor guy who would rather be attending the Home and Garden show at the Mall.Con_Alma;1027272 wrote:I haven't forgotten. In fact I often point to it. I think fan is used too liberally with regards to people who like the NFL. Just because you go to games or like a team doesn't mean you are a fan.
If you can't get the "fans" to show up, as an organization just who the hell is your target market going to be? You have to target a base and the top of the list are "fans". Otherwise you're in the wrong business and a destined to fail.Con_Alma;1027272 wrote:The Cincinnati franchise is seeing that now. They aren't attracting people to the stadium. It isn't the fans that you need.
Yes, but they're not. That's the whole point. It first and foremost says something about the "fans", their dedication and subsequently their apathy.Con_Alma;1027272 wrote:The fans are blind enough to allways be there. Its the edge sports entertainment dollars that are your growth revenue. Cincinnati is failing with those folks.
LJ
Posts: 16,351
Dec 26, 2011 11:46am
/con_alma'd
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 11:57am
Wow. Do you really believe the overwhelming majority of people who watch and go to NFL games are fanatics? I guess I have never thought about it but I don't think I do. I have attended 3 games this year. I would not consider myself a fanatic.ytownfootball;1027292 wrote:Well now this is just chock full of fail so let's dissect it ...
The overwhelming majority I would assume are indeed "fans". That is a simple enough concept considering the money spent to attend and it's not debatable. You don't purchase 3 tickets and take the neighbor guy who would rather be attending the Home and Garden show at the Mall....
I think the fans are showing up. I don't think there are as many fanatics as you do.ytownfootball;1027292 wrote:...If you can't get the "fans" to show up, as an organization just who the hell is your target market going to be? You have to target a base and the top of the list are "fans". Otherwise you're in the wrong business and a destined to fail. ...
That's our point of contention. I think the fans are coming and I don't think there are as many as you think there are. The blind loyalty of fanatics brings them to the game no matter the product.ytownfootball;1027292 wrote:...Yes, but they're not. That's the whole point. It first and foremost says something about the "fans", their dedication and subsequently their apathy.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 11:59am
??? Yes. I have been disagreeing all along.DeyDurkie5;1027289 wrote:agree to disagree conalma..no point in going on with this
Were you asking me to post that?
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Dec 26, 2011 12:02pm
what are you takling about? I'm saying we aren't going to agree, so lets agree to disagree and drop itCon_Alma;1027313 wrote:??? Yes. I have been disagreeing all along.
Were you asking me to post that?
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Dec 26, 2011 12:04pm
Lol
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 12:07pm
I am talking about the fact that I have been agreeing to disagree all along....from my first post. Didn't you see that?DeyDurkie5;1027317 wrote:what are you takling about? I'm saying we aren't going to agree, so lets agree to disagree and drop it
I don't see a reason to drop it.
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Dec 26, 2011 12:09pm
I see that..it's an expression, which means I don't want to discuss this with you anymore, as we both are on the opposite ends of the arguments. If you have never heard of that before, then so be it. But I think you are just being your usual douchebag self, so i don't want to discuss this convo with you anymore. cheers.Con_Alma;1027324 wrote:I am talking about the fact that I have been agreeing to disagree all along....from my first post. Didn't you see that?
I don't see a reason to drop it.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Dec 26, 2011 12:12pm
+1LJ;1027299 wrote:/con_alma'd
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 12:14pm
Lol. Just don't discuss it then. That's not too difficlt.
The bottomline for me in this topic is that the responsibility to draw people through the gates exists on the product. It is not on the people, ever.
The bottomline for me in this topic is that the responsibility to draw people through the gates exists on the product. It is not on the people, ever.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Dec 26, 2011 12:39pm
Durkie you are forever locked into this conversation. There's no getting out now.
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Dec 26, 2011 1:05pm
SportsAndLady;1027344 wrote:Durkie you are forever locked into this conversation. There's no getting out now.
This.
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Dec 26, 2011 1:12pm
SportsAndLady;1027344 wrote:Durkie you are forever locked into this conversation. There's no getting out now.
i almost bit on his last post..wes_mantooth;1027367 wrote:This.
ytownfootball
Posts: 6,978
Dec 26, 2011 1:28pm
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
Dec 26, 2011 2:42pm
And the product is good this year. WTF dont you understand?Con_Alma;1027333 wrote:Lol. Just don't discuss it then. That's not too difficlt.
The bottomline for me in this topic is that the responsibility to draw people through the gates exists on the product. It is not on the people, ever.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Dec 26, 2011 3:00pm
...not good enough to draw people into the stadium. It's obvious that its' going to take more than a good product. Do you understand that?Rotinaj;1027434 wrote:And the product is good this year. WTF dont you understand?
wes_mantooth
Posts: 17,977
Dec 26, 2011 3:07pm
Cat Food Flambe'
Posts: 1,230
Dec 26, 2011 3:37pm
Just a point for consideration...
If the ownership should be completely divorced from the team in terms of fan loyalty - why aren't Browns fans still rooting for what are now the Ravens?
Mikey has been screwing the Bengals faithful for so long and in so many ways that just sneaking into a wild-card spot every few years isn't going to cut it.
True, he didn't move the team (yet) - but the difference between Art Model and Mike Brown's actions is like that of getting your head blown off by a shotgun or being staked out in desert to be eaten alive by fire ants.
If the ownership should be completely divorced from the team in terms of fan loyalty - why aren't Browns fans still rooting for what are now the Ravens?
Mikey has been screwing the Bengals faithful for so long and in so many ways that just sneaking into a wild-card spot every few years isn't going to cut it.
True, he didn't move the team (yet) - but the difference between Art Model and Mike Brown's actions is like that of getting your head blown off by a shotgun or being staked out in desert to be eaten alive by fire ants.
ytownfootball
Posts: 6,978
Dec 26, 2011 3:42pm
Bad premise. It's about loyalty to the city.Cat Food Flambe';1027461 wrote:Just a point for consideration...
If the ownership should be completely divorced from the team in terms of fan loyalty - why aren't Browns fans still rooting for what are now the Ravens?
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
Dec 26, 2011 3:46pm
such a doucheCon_Alma;1027442 wrote:...not good enough to draw people into the stadium. It's obvious that its' going to take more than a good product. Do you understand that?