dwccrew;1012869 wrote:I'd love to hear your reasoning behind this. Not that I disagree with you, just want to know why you think it is Obamakare that will be the nail inthe coffin.

An interesting article regarding all of the taxes included in ObamaKare - http://biggovernment.com/vderugy/2010/04/15/obama-people-making-less-than-200000-will-see-their-taxes-go-down-right/

For those that don't feel like linking and reading:

“Breath tax”: The infamous “death tax” now has a new sibling: the $17 billion “breath tax.” The new health overhaul law requires everyone in America who breathes to have health insurance by 2014;

Taxes on medical devices: Surgical scissors, wheelchairs, intravenous bags, dental retainers and braces, CT scanners, stretchers, exam room tables, heart stents, pacemakers, surgical gloves, spineboards at every local pool, scales at a doctor’s office or health club, any diagnostic test for any disease or condition – all will be among the products and procedures subject to ObamaCare’s special $20 billion medical device tax beginning in 2013.

New Tax on Health Insurance Providers: Even though soaring health costs are the problem Americans most wanted government to solve, ObamaCare promises to drive costs even higher by instituting a new $60 billion tax on health insurers.

Medicare Payroll Tax: Starting in 2013, ObamaCare increases the Medicare payroll tax for many small business owners and others earning more than $250,000 a year.

New Tax on Investment: In addition to the Medicare payroll tax hike, investment income will now be subject to a tax of 3.8% starting in 2013 for those in higher income categories.

New Drug Tax: ObamaCare’s new tax on brand-name drugs kicks in next year and is estimated to raise $27 billion over nine years.

Now, I'm certain that there's a high percentage of Statists that truly believe the drug companies, the medical device manufacturers, and employers will willingly pay for all of these new taxes out of the goodness of their heart and for the sake of Obama and not pass them down the line to the consumers. These same people would also vote for Fidel Castro in a heartbeat.

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/?q=articles/entertainment/blak_music_month/35321

BGFalcons82;1013378 wrote:Now, I'm certain that there's a high percentage of Statists that truly believe the drug companies, the medical device manufacturers, and employers will willingly pay for all of these new taxes out of the goodness of their heart and for the sake of Obama and not pass them down the line to the consumers.

I believe the statists fully expect the costs to be passed down the line, particularly to the end consumer known as private employers. They're hoping this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back causing the employers to buy-in to a single-payer, government-controlled health care plan.

Gosh lets see
Reagan gives massive tax cuts concentrated for the rich and national debt skyrockets, Bush the elder and Clinton raise taxes, we get debt under control and we actually run yearly surpluses. Then Bush the younger gives massive tax cuts to the rich and the debt balloons which continues under Obama as he is unable to raise taxes on the rich. Our best hope the end of Bush tax cut in December, 2012.

isadore;1014435 wrote:Gosh lets see
Reagan gives massive tax cuts concentrated for the rich and national debt skyrockets, Bush the elder and Clinton raise taxes, we get debt under control and we actually run yearly surpluses. Then Bush the younger gives massive tax cuts to the rich and the debt balloons which continues under Obama as he is unable to raise taxes on the rich. Our best hope the end of Bush tax cut in December, 2012.

Gee willikers. Were you around from 1978-1980? How was that economy, eh? It was certainly worse than today's but then the lie about our current state as the next depression has been told so many times, that people have forgotten all about 20% mortgage rates, +10% unemployment, and runaway inflation eating us from within. How does that compare to today's statistics? Do you remember the misery index? Here's the link - http://www.miseryindex.us/ Did you notice the high point was in 1980 at 21.98? How bad was it in 2008 when Obama ran on depression fears (A = 9.61)?

Then what happened? Reagan, with the ample assistance of Paul Volcker, reversed all of these horrendous indicators, put people back to work, restored growth as an objective, and most importantly, got Americans believing positively about their futures. You forget about the Carter years, the malaise, the stagflation, the hour-long waits in gas lines, and the seemingly insurmountable task of restoring the economy and most importantly, restoring hope to a worn out country. Yeah...bash Reagan until you can't take another breath, but you deny history in the meantime. This country was in the shitter and all you can do is bash the man that led us out of our hell hole.

What's Barry's plan? Blame Bush. Blame Republicans. Blame God for horrible weather that certainly no other President ever had to deal with. Blame earthquakes in countries 10,000 miles from here. Blame the evil rich for hoarding the poor's money. Blame BP. Blame Bush again. Blame bitter clingers. Blame the Tea Party. What a grand economic plan for our future survival, eh?

BGFalcons82;1014475 wrote:Gee willikers. Were you around from 1978-1980? How was that economy, eh? It was certainly worse than today's but then the lie about our current state as the next depression has been told so many times, that people have forgotten all about 20% mortgage rates, +10% unemployment, and runaway inflation eating us from within. How does that compare to today's statistics? Do you remember the misery index? Here's the link - http://www.miseryindex.us/ Did you notice the high point was in 1980 at 21.98? How bad was it in 2008 when Obama ran on depression fears (A = 9.61)?

Then what happened? Reagan, with the ample assistance of Paul Volcker, reversed all of these horrendous indicators, put people back to work, restored growth as an objective, and most importantly, got Americans believing positively about their futures. You forget about the Carter years, the malaise, the stagflation, the hour-long waits in gas lines, and the seemingly insurmountable task of restoring the economy and most importantly, restoring hope to a worn out country. Yeah...bash Reagan until you can't take another breath, but you deny history in the meantime. This country was in the shitter and all you can do is bash the man that led us out of our hell hole.

What's Barry's plan? Blame Bush. Blame Republicans. Blame God for horrible weather that certainly no other President ever had to deal with. Blame earthquakes in countries 10,000 miles from here. Blame the evil rich for hoarding the poor's money. Blame BP. Blame Bush again. Blame bitter clingers. Blame the Tea Party. What a grand economic plan for our future survival, eh?

BRAVO! Oh and don't forget Arab Spring.

BGFalcons82;1014475 wrote:Gee willikers. Were you around from 1978-1980? How was that economy, eh? It was certainly worse than today's but then the lie about our current state as the next depression has been told so many times, that people have forgotten all about 20% mortgage rates, +10% unemployment, and runaway inflation eating us from within. How does that compare to today's statistics? Do you remember the misery index? Here's the link - http://www.miseryindex.us/ Did you notice the high point was in 1980 at 21.98? How bad was it in 2008 when Obama ran on depression fears (A = 9.61)?

Then what happened? Reagan, with the ample assistance of Paul Volcker, reversed all of these horrendous indicators, put people back to work, restored growth as an objective, and most importantly, got Americans believing positively about their futures. You forget about the Carter years, the malaise, the stagflation, the hour-long waits in gas lines, and the seemingly insurmountable task of restoring the economy and most importantly, restoring hope to a worn out country. Yeah...bash Reagan until you can't take another breath, but you deny history in the meantime. This country was in the ****ter and all you can do is bash the man that led us out of our hell hole.

What's Barry's plan? Blame Bush. Blame Republicans. Blame God for horrible weather that certainly no other President ever had to deal with. Blame earthquakes in countries 10,000 miles from here. Blame the evil rich for hoarding the poor's money. Blame BP. Blame Bush again. Blame bitter clingers. Blame the Tea Party. What a grand economic plan for our future survival, eh?

Gosh do you actually read the sites you post. 10% Carter unemployment, highest rate 7.28%. After 3 years Reagan had the unemployment rate at 9.6%. Lets see Obama came in with a much worse situation, the worst since Great Depression and his unemployment rate is 8.6% as he nears the end of his third year. Now Obama is leading us out. And with trying to raise taxes on the rich Obama doing something to fight the deficit, something ronny didn’t do. All he could do was make the rich, richer while nearly tripling the deficit.
http://www.miseryindex.us/urbyyear.asp
And the man who did bring us out of that hole in the 1980s Paul Volcker, why he wants to raise taxes to fight the deficit.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/25/volcker-gdp-spending-intelligent-investing-taxes.html

isadore;1015078 wrote:Now Obama is leading us out. And with trying to raise taxes on the rich Obama doing something to fight the deficit, something ronny didn’t do.

LMAO Do you really believe this crap? Leading us out? Reducing the deficit? I don't even know where to begin..... :rolleyes:

I've said it twice now, but I can't believe no one has commented...

Warren Buffett's son has taken $300k in farm subsidies over the last 13 years (reported on 60 minutes last week). Am I the only one that finds that completely outrageous? Granted, we already know there are multi-million $$$ farm corps taking huge subsidies and many think almost all farm subsidies are a waster, but still....

gut;1017292 wrote:I've said it twice now, but I can't believe no one has commented...

Warren Buffett's son has taken $300k in farm subsidies over the last 13 years (reported on 60 minutes last week). Am I the only one that finds that completely outrageous? Granted, we already know there are multi-million $$$ farm corps taking huge subsidies and many think almost all farm subsidies are a waster, but still....

Don't you know? Class warfare...class warfare...after all...the man's entitled to it, isn't he? Seriously, the farm subsidy program is latent with fraud..and it is engineered and designed to help the huge farmers...and not the little food grower....again, the gobblement has it ass backwards.

As for Warren's kid...it is a mindset....that permeates the thinking of mankind. I see it every week in the real world.

BGFalcons82;1013378 wrote:An interesting article regarding all of the taxes included in ObamaKare - http://biggovernment.com/vderugy/2010/04/15/obama-people-making-less-than-200000-will-see-their-taxes-go-down-right/

For those that don't feel like linking and reading:

“Breath tax”: The infamous “death tax” now has a new sibling: the $17 billion “breath tax.” The new health overhaul law requires everyone in America who breathes to have health insurance by 2014;

We socialize the "breathe tax" as it stands today. On average, hospitals treat about 33% indogent patients. Who pays? Well, those that buy health insurance do.

Taxes on medical devices

: Surgical scissors, wheelchairs, intravenous bags, dental retainers and braces, CT scanners, stretchers, exam room tables, heart stents, pacemakers, surgical gloves, spineboards at every local pool, scales at a doctor’s office or health club, any diagnostic test for any disease or condition – all will be among the products and procedures subject to ObamaCare’s special $20 billion medical device tax beginning in 2013.

I wouldn't cry about this either. Medical devices for the most part are patent protected. Not that there is anything wrong with patents mind you. But for the most part, the selling prices are not tied to a free market, but to an artificially inflated one. I know a few device reps..they make on average of 250K. Are they good at what they do? Yes. Do they work hard? Yup. Are they worth 250K a year? Not in a free market system. So taxing virtual monopolies doesn't make me cry at all.

New Tax on Health Insurance Providers

: Even though soaring health costs are the problem Americans most wanted government to solve, ObamaCare promises to drive costs even higher by instituting a new $60 billion tax on health insurers.

See my answer to point number one above. Obamacare is forcing the low enders to chip in a little. Isn't that what you want? As it stands today, the indogent pay nada..whereby the purchasers....i.e....working people...paying the medical premiums.... are paying for their care.

Medicare Payroll Tax

: Starting in 2013, ObamaCare increases the Medicare payroll tax for many small business owners and others earning more than $250,000 a year.

I agree...this is very stupid. Just raise the personal tax brackets of the 1% crowd and call it a day.

New Tax on Investment

: In addition to the Medicare payroll tax hike, investment income will now be subject to a tax of 3.8% starting in 2013 for those in higher income categories.

Not sure I understand exactly what a "new tax on investment" means. If you mean a hike in capital gains taxes...well it is long overdue. However, tax credits should be given to intra country investments...and penalties levied for building sweat shops in China....but that makes too much sense for it to ever be implemented,

Drug Tax: ObamaCare’s new tax on brand-name drugs kicks in next year and is estimated to raise $27 billion over nine years.

As a former drug rep...for 8 years, I can tell you that this is good legislation. Generic equivelents should be used at every opportunity. Only the uninformed public are so gullible to buy brand named drugs. There are a few rare exceptions, but I'm not gonna go there.

Now, I'm certain that there's a high percentage of Statists that truly believe the drug companies, the medical device manufacturers, and employers will willingly pay for all of these new taxes out of the goodness of their heart and for the sake of Obama and not pass them down the line to the consumers. These same people would also vote for Fidel Castro in a heartbeat.

Again, if these companies were pricing their products at where "the free market would bear", there would be no reason to charge a surtax. So...I wouldn't lose any sleep over Merck, Pfizer, GSK, or Novartis paying the government a few extra billion.

believer;1015505 wrote:LMAO Do you really believe this crap? Leading us out? Reducing the deficit? I don't even know where to begin..... :rolleyes:

the truth hurts for the tea party types. Unemployment starting down and tax cuts rescinded end of next year.

The government's official unemployment rate will continue to go down if 325,000 people drop off the rolls each month and give up on ever working again. Hooray for Obama. He'll have 7% unemployment come election time even if no one goes back to work.

Cleveland Buck;1017984 wrote:The government's official unemployment rate will continue to go down if 325,000 people drop off the rolls each month and give up on ever working again. Hooray for Obama. He'll have 7% unemployment come election time even if no one goes back to work.

Well, Queen Nancy still insists that unemployment checks to those officially on the unemployment rolls will create new economic opportunities for the 325,000 who dropped off the rolls:

[video=youtube;60jJRT_ppAY][/video]

Footwedge;1017443 wrote:We socialize the "breathe tax" as it stands today. On average, hospitals treat about 33% indogent patients. Who pays? Well, those that buy health insurance do.

First, it's not an automatic. Those that use the hospital for their sniffles get billed for their time. If they choose to not pay anything, then they have stolen services. There are free clinics for people that can't pay. Since the government has decreed that receipt of medical services without payment is how we want to live as a society, then in some cases where people decide somebody owes them a service merely because they breathe, their costs are spread amongst those that have health insurance. As you say, it isn't spread amongst all Americans, just those that have the ability to pay. You'll find that's kind of a theme in the statist utopian world.

Second, there are millions of Americans that don't want to pay for health insurance. Notably, the very wealthy and the very healthy. The very wealthy find that being self-insured actually saves them money as they pay their bills with cold hard cash at a discount. The very healthy don't want it because it's money they can save for trips to the gym...or vitamins...or maybe even a milkshake. The brand new breath tax attacks both these classes. Kind of like making a lactose-intollerant person buy a gallon of milk because it's needed for his neighbor that doesn't want to pay for his own milk.

Third.... one out of every three patients is indigent? Only 2/3 of Americans are covered by some health plan and the other third are under the poverty line? How bout a link please.

Footwedge;1017443 wrote:I wouldn't cry about this either. Medical devices for the most part are patent protected. Not that there is anything wrong with patents mind you. But for the most part, the selling prices are not tied to a free market, but to an artificially inflated one. I know a few device reps..they make on average of 250K. Are they good at what they do? Yes. Do they work hard? Yup. Are they worth 250K a year? Not in a free market system. So taxing virtual monopolies doesn't make me cry at all.

What in the world do patents have to do with taxing them? Your point is "you know a guy" that makes more than you deem worthy, so the fact that these devices are suddenly under assault is fine and dandy as "your guy" has more than enough money than he knows how to spend. Who deemed Footwedge as the determinant of what is fair? Are you the market-savant? Or is that the Harvard-educated fella currently in charge of all things American? Do you think "your guy" got to his exorbitant and way-out-of-line salary by being lucky or does he have some skills that will allow him to avoid paying anything out of his pocket? If you don't think "your guy" won't pass along an increased cost as part of his cost of doing business, you are sadly ostrich-like.

Footwedge;1017443 wrote:See my answer to point number one above. Obamacare is forcing the low enders to chip in a little. Isn't that what you want? As it stands today, the indogent pay nada..whereby the purchasers....i.e....working people...paying the medical premiums.... are paying for their care.

I agree...this is very stupid. Just raise the personal tax brackets of the 1% crowd and call it a day.

Raising taxes on millionaires making $200,000 cures every ill on the planet. Got it.

Footwedge;1017443 wrote:Not sure I understand exactly what a "new tax on investment" means. If you mean a hike in capital gains taxes...well it is long overdue. However, tax credits should be given to intra country investments...and penalties levied for building sweat shops in China....but that makes too much sense for it to ever be implemented,

As a former drug rep...for 8 years, I can tell you that this is good legislation. Generic equivelents should be used at every opportunity. Only the uninformed public are so gullible to buy brand named drugs. There are a few rare exceptions, but I'm not gonna go there.

Huh, you are also smart enough to deem brand name drugs as unworthy and only the gullible buy them, so they should be taxed accordingly. I had no idea you were this intelligent. The market should be shut down and a similar smart guy, say a Harvard-educated man, should be put in charge of all drugs. Got it.

Footwedge;1017443 wrote:Again, if these companies were pricing their products at where "the free market would bear", there would be no reason to charge a surtax. So...I wouldn't lose any sleep over Merck, Pfizer, GSK, or Novartis paying the government a few extra billion.

Yes, these companies will certainly not pass any costs due to tax increases onto their customers because they love socialism and feel they should be forced to pay more. :rolleyes: Let me ask you this...if the gas tax goes up 20 cents per gallon tonight for all dealers, will the cost of a gallon of gas go up 0 cents or 20 cents tomorrow?

I found another more informative link to the increased taxes due to ObamaKare - http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-list-tax-hikes-obamacare-a5758
If nothing else, those that think Obama is only increasing taxes on those making more than $200,000 should have their eyes opened...if only slightly.