I typically watch most of the teams in the WCAL play on a yearly basis at some time. I like to go to the good matchups or follow the “Hot” teams. That being said, I saw Norwayne play through the entire playoffs last year. I caught Smithville in the first game this year and I saw Northwestern play last week. I think Norwayne and Northwestern both have 2 or 3 players that are better then anyone on Smithville’s team. Hillsdale is starting to come together and is blessed with great coaching and talent. I am going to watch them this Friday. I’ll have a better idea of who’s who on that team after watching them play. We all know that Rittman and Chippewa aren’t very good. Although I’m sure there are some good athletes on those teams, none really come to mind. We’ll discard them. I think Moyer at Dalton is a POY candidate although I don’t think he is the POY. I’m waiting to see what Stanley and Strasbaugh do at Waynedale. They are both strong athletes that play for a team that is not very good. I’m sure they both will have some strong performances this year. The one thing that I am not sure about as of yet is the linemen in the league. Linemen are always left out of the POY talk. I understand it but that doesn’t mean that none of them are in the upper tier of players in the league. Without question there are 2 or 3 linemen that deserve to be in the conversation. They won’t be considered but they are good. We need to also keep in mind that just because a player has more stats than another player that doesn’t make him any better. Bates will put up stats because Smithville doesn’t have anyone else to do it. Let’s face it…Smithville is not very good. They may win 5 games because Fairless stinks and the bottom of the WCAL is extremely weak. Maybe I shouldn’t say that Bates isn’t in the top 10 players in the league but I don’t think he’s near the top. Please don’t take it as a personal attack. It’s just my opinion and I do think he is a good athlete.

WCALfootballfan;1261737 wrote:I typically watch most of the teams in the WCAL play on a yearly basis at some time. I like to go to the good matchups or follow the “Hot” teams. That being said, I saw Norwayne play through the entire playoffs last year. I caught Smithville in the first game this year and I saw Northwestern play last week. I think Norwayne and Northwestern both have 2 or 3 players that are better then anyone on Smithville’s team. Hillsdale is starting to come together and is blessed with great coaching and talent. I am going to watch them this Friday. I’ll have a better idea of who’s who on that team after watching them play. We all know that Rittman and Chippewa aren’t very good. Although I’m sure there are some good athletes on those teams, none really come to mind. We’ll discard them. I think Moyer at Dalton is a POY candidate although I don’t think he is the POY. I’m waiting to see what Stanley and Strasbaugh do at Waynedale. They are both strong athletes that play for a team that is not very good. I’m sure they both will have some strong performances this year. The one thing that I am not sure about as of yet is the linemen in the league. Linemen are always left out of the POY talk. I understand it but that doesn’t mean that none of them are in the upper tier of players in the league. Without question there are 2 or 3 linemen that deserve to be in the conversation. They won’t be considered but they are good. We need to also keep in mind that just because a player has more stats than another player that doesn’t make him any better. Bates will put up stats because Smithville doesn’t have anyone else to do it. Let’s face it…Smithville is not very good. They may win 5 games because Fairless stinks and the bottom of the WCAL is extremely weak. Maybe I shouldn’t say that Bates isn’t in the top 10 players in the league but I don’t think he’s near the top. Please don’t take it as a personal attack. It’s just my opinion and I do think he is a good athlete.

Dear lord. That was exhausting to read and follow. Paragraphs would help get your point across a little more clearly.

I didn't take it as a personal attack, so don't worry. No offense was taken.

I've been following the WCAL for only about 13-14 years now, and while I agree that Bates won't end up being the best player in the league, I do think he's more important to Smithville than any other player is to their team this year. Norwayne has some GREAT players who would be in consideration for POY. I know Northwestern and Hillsdale probably do as well (haven't seen them play yet). The Dalton squad being young, may be a prime team to find an MVP as well, because the few vets that are there likely play an extra crucial role to the rest of their team as well.

With only two games into the season, and with no league play yet, I'm not ready to put the teams in order, as I think there can still be plenty of shuffling to do.

As for Smithville being "not very good," they're honestly a couple linemen away from being a pretty good team. And keep in mind that their 0-2 start has been against two very quality teams. Loudonville has run roughshod over their first two opponents with 2011 Norwayne-esque scores. Mogadore is always solid, though the Smithville offense seemed to do pretty well against them. 26 points isn't worrisome for an offense. It's just that 42 points on a defense is a big problem.

I'm not meaning to say that this Smithie team is the same as last year's team. This team is missing some of the tough-running and leadership from the guys last year, and if they don't fill those holes, they'll be destined for a middle spot of a down WCAL. Just saying that two games into the season seems a little premature for those kinds of projections.

WCALfootballfan;1261737 wrote:I typically watch most of the teams in the WCAL play on a yearly basis at some time. I like to go to the good matchups or follow the “Hot” teams. That being said, I saw Norwayne play through the entire playoffs last year. I caught Smithville in the first game this year and I saw Northwestern play last week. I think Norwayne and Northwestern both have 2 or 3 players that are better then anyone on Smithville’s team. Hillsdale is starting to come together and is blessed with great coaching and talent. I am going to watch them this Friday. I’ll have a better idea of who’s who on that team after watching them play. We all know that Rittman and Chippewa aren’t very good. Although I’m sure there are some good athletes on those teams, none really come to mind. We’ll discard them. I think Moyer at Dalton is a POY candidate although I don’t think he is the POY. I’m waiting to see what Stanley and Strasbaugh do at Waynedale. They are both strong athletes that play for a team that is not very good. I’m sure they both will have some strong performances this year. The one thing that I am not sure about as of yet is the linemen in the league. Linemen are always left out of the POY talk. I understand it but that doesn’t mean that none of them are in the upper tier of players in the league. Without question there are 2 or 3 linemen that deserve to be in the conversation. They won’t be considered but they are good. We need to also keep in mind that just because a player has more stats than another player that doesn’t make him any better. Bates will put up stats because Smithville doesn’t have anyone else to do it. Let’s face it…Smithville is not very good. They may win 5 games because Fairless stinks and the bottom of the WCAL is extremely weak. Maybe I shouldn’t say that Bates isn’t in the top 10 players in the league but I don’t think he’s near the top. Please don’t take it as a personal attack. It’s just my opinion and I do think he is a good athlete.

Has there ever been a Linemen POY or even one in the running??....not trying to be a jerk I was just wondering if there ever has been..

I am assuming that you are a Smithville guy O-trap?

I seriously doubt it Bobcat. It's rare for a lineman to get that type of recognition. There are always some very good ones in the league.

Who are the best linemen in the league?

WCALfootballfan;1261943 wrote:I am assuming that you are a Smithville guy O-trap?

I seriously doubt it Bobcat. It's rare for a lineman to get that type of recognition. There are always some very good ones in the league.

Who are the best linemen in the league?

As far as the WCAL its hard to pick them, I have only seen Norwayne play so I will just give you my picks for them.....I think for Norwayne the 2 best linemen are #70 Scruggs and #69 Barb......both have been 3 year players on O line and D line and I think Barb has been 4 year player(not sure).... Barb is a scrapper he isnt that big but he goes at it......Scruggs has some size and is pretty quick for his size. As far as the rest of the line Croftcheck and Weinman(i think) they are big boys and it takes alot to move them...And if i am right the left guard is Scruggs's little brother and he is a sophmore (not sure though somebody help me out if I am wrong).

So I would have to go with Barb and Scruggs for Norwayne and I hear that the soph from Dalton is also a stud and Northwester has a 4 year starter (Walker???)....

Alex Kurtz is the anchor for the Smithie line on both sides of the ball, being shuffled from o guard to tackle and back and D end to DT already. he is doing anything the Smithies ask of him. played solid against Mogadore.

Bates lead the area in picks last year on d and had 100 plus tackles as a JUNIOR. Teams are quckly learning not to throw at him. I wanna see bates put behind norwaynes line with the targets norwayne has and see the stats he puts up. Bates Buss and Shane would all start in any county team. Smithvilles opponets are lucky that bates isnt a WR or wing also. imagine game planning for a 6-2 kid that runs a legit 4.6 40 playing QB WB and WR. to say smithville has no one in the top ten is ridiculous. Bates Buss Shane and Kurtz all played a huge roll on last years team that if you remember, was the only team to beat the mighty bobcats. not attacking anyone here from norwayne just stating facts. :huh:

855pride;1261982 wrote:Alex Kurtz is the anchor for the Smithie line on both sides of the ball, being shuffled from o guard to tackle and back and D end to DT already. he is doing anything the Smithies ask of him. played solid against Mogadore.

Bates lead the area in picks last year on d and had 100 plus tackles as a JUNIOR. Teams are quckly learning not to throw at him. I wanna see bates put behind norwaynes line with the targets norwayne has and see the stats he puts up. Bates Buss and Shane would all start in any county team. Smithvilles opponets are lucky that bates isnt a WR or wing also. imagine game planning for a 6-2 kid that runs a legit 4.6 40 playing QB WB and WR. to say smithville has no one in the top ten is ridiculous. Bates Buss Shane and Kurtz all played a huge roll on last years team that if you remember, was the only team to beat the mighty bobcats. not attacking anyone here from norwayne just stating facts. :huh:

I've seen the bobcats play both games this year and have to say I wouldn't swap buss Bates shane or kurtz for any of the bobcats. Give me Berger Harris Smith Kaneriem Zimmerly Maxwell or Dreher any day. I've watched these boys play since they were 8 yrs. Old and the are winners.

dmax. it sounds like you have an emotional connection with these boys and thats respectable. parent, sibling or whatever isnt the topic. norwayne is a solid team but i cant take u serious when you say you wouldnt take bates buss and shane....all run a 4.6 and have the bodies to go through and around defenders. they will be wcal first team and bates is looking to be a repeat all ohio player. it will be interesting to read these posts at the end of the season to see how things pan out. good luck to all the teams tho. i have smithville pride and always will.

WCALfootballfan;1261943 wrote:I am assuming that you are a Smithville guy O-trap?

I attended there, and I do still follow them, yes. However, I'm definitely a fan of the league in general as well. After the first round last year (where I went to watch Smithville), I went to watch each of the Bobcats' last four playoff games, cheering them on at every one. It was good for the league, and that was important.

Imagine most teams without a single key player. In every case, they would obviously be less than the team they are today, but the level of impact varies. I can't think of a team who would be AS different a team as Smithville would if that player missing was Bates. He's not the only good player on the team at all, but his position, athleticism, and ability to see the field well on both sides of the ball make him too significant a playmaker on both sides.

855pride;1262006 wrote:... bates is looking to be a repeat all ohio player ...

To give an idea of the sheer athleticism of this kid, it's worth noting that he was All-Ohio in all three sports he played as a Junior.

855pride;1262006 wrote:dmax. it sounds like you have an emotional connection with these boys and thats respectable. parent, sibling or whatever isnt the topic. norwayne is a solid team but i cant take u serious when you say you wouldnt take bates buss and shane....all run a 4.6 and have the bodies to go through and around defenders. they will be wcal first team and bates is looking to be a repeat all ohio player. it will be interesting to read these posts at the end of the season to see how things pan out. good luck to all the teams tho. i have smithville pride and always will.

Your right I do have a connection with one of theses boys. That being said I would still put our skill players any day. Hands down Zimmerly is the best running back in the area.

Dmax1;1262017 wrote: Hands down Zimmerly is the best running back in the area.

Running backs are largely built on their line. Zimmerly has one heck of a line to run behind. I'd still say he's definitely one of the best, but there are some good runners in the area. That kid from Loudonville was making a lot of plays himself, and I'd definitely put him into the discussion. Kid was tough.

The DaLton soph is jd Murphy. I agree he has a ton of potential and has very good feet. Bottom line is, you are just never going to see a lineman win MVP. Line play is a sum of it's parts and it's just hard to give an award like that to a lineman (although there are times they deserve it)

Dmax1;1262017 wrote:Hands down Zimmerly is the best running back in the area.

Have you seen West Holmes play recently? I personally would take Perone and maybe 1-2 more of their backs over Zimmerly.

855pride;1262006 wrote:dmax. it sounds like you have an emotional connection with these boys and thats respectable. parent, sibling or whatever isnt the topic. norwayne is a solid team but i cant take u serious when you say you wouldnt take bates buss and shane....all run a 4.6 and have the bodies to go through and around defenders. they will be wcal first team and bates is looking to be a repeat all ohio player. it will be interesting to read these posts at the end of the season to see how things pan out. good luck to all the teams tho. i have smithville pride and always will.

I dont have any connection with any player on the team I am just a long time fan...IMO I am not sure how Bates, Buss and Shane would do in a Norwayne O.....all 3 are good at what they do, which is running the ball,...Does Bates have the arm for Norwayne's offense???.....I honestly dont know, he has spent 3 years under the wing-t with Smithville so not sure how strong of a arm he does have and how accurate he is, thats not saying he isnt a good QB, thats just saying he plays a different system. As far as Buss and Shane they would not get the carries for Norwayne like they do with Smithville, so IMO im not sure how good they would be. Dont think that I am in any way "dogging" these boys, is just Smithville and Norwayne play two different games.

As far as POY goes, I think Zimmerly has a real shot at that, from what I see Norwayne is a differnt team if he is not on the field for O and D......I know you cant say 1 person makes a diffence but Zimmerly does. Maxwell is a good running back but he is no where close to the talent of Zimmerly and if you take him off the D side of the ball it makes a huge difference. But as one person said...time will tell!!!

thePITman;1262038 wrote:Have you seen West Holmes play recently? I personally would take Perone and maybe 1-2 more of their backs over Zimmerly.

I haven't seen him, but I've heard that kid is a sick runner, blocking notwithstanding. That was pretty much how the Loudonville kid was, though the line DID block for him, which made it even harder to watch my Smithies try to defend against him.

855pride;1261982 wrote:Alex Kurtz is the anchor for the Smithie line on both sides of the ball, being shuffled from o guard to tackle and back and D end to DT already. he is doing anything the Smithies ask of him. played solid against Mogadore.

Bates lead the area in picks last year on d and had 100 plus tackles as a JUNIOR. Teams are quckly learning not to throw at him. I wanna see bates put behind norwaynes line with the targets norwayne has and see the stats he puts up. Bates Buss and Shane would all start in any county team. Smithvilles opponets are lucky that bates isnt a WR or wing also. imagine game planning for a 6-2 kid that runs a legit 4.6 40 playing QB WB and WR. to say smithville has no one in the top ten is ridiculous. Bates Buss Shane and Kurtz all played a huge roll on last years team that if you remember, was the only team to beat the mighty bobcats. not attacking anyone here from norwayne just stating facts. :huh:

Everyone runs a 4.6. Seriously... ask any coach. They run a 4.6. Lets put this out there right now... He doesn't run a 4.6. Would bet a ton of money he doesn't.

Example: The Minnich kid from Crestview last year. 100m runner up and top 5 in the 200m. Know for a fact that kid ran a 4.54 - 4.5 flat time with a laser. BATES IS SLOWER THAN MINNICH. Seen Smithville play a lot the last two years. Haven't seen Bates play live this year because he was hurt or whatever. I don't think he is that fast. 4.6 is flying, especially in this area.

If Bates is a 4.6 then the Ant-juan ( I think that is how he spells it) from Waynedale is right at 4.6 as well. Stanley might even be a 4.6.

Everybody runs a 4.6 unless they're from Orrville...they all run 4.5

WCALfootballfan;1262053 wrote:Everybody runs a 4.6 unless they're from Orrville...they all run 4.5

Nah. Our fastest guy was a 4.78, but I guess we were slow.

You may want to keep in mind that the Loudonville team that whacked that Smithville team with all those "football bodies" got destroyed by Norwayne in a scrimmage. I heard that Berger put on a clinic in that one. Can Bobcat14 or Dmax confirm that?

WCALfootballfan;1262086 wrote:You may want to keep in mind that the Loudonville team that whacked that Smithville team with all those "football bodies" got destroyed by Norwayne in a scrimmage. I heard that Berger put on a clinic in that one. Can Bobcat14 or Dmax confirm that?

Wouldn't surprise me. Norwayne is far more balanced and is comprised of a team of great athletes. Loudonville is fairly one-dimensional on offense, and they weren't as impressive in pass coverage on D.

WCALfootballfan;1262053 wrote:Everybody runs a 4.6 unless they're from Orrville...they all run 4.5

No you got it wrong...4.4

Look at Smithville track last year. Bates placed high on the podium at state along with shane and poorman (senior that didnt play football last year, WB DB). not everyone does that to who ever said everyone runs a 4.6 and if im not mistaken bates and douglass (graduated this past summer,now at ashland) went to a camp and ran with a laser. bates was a solid 4.6 runner LAST WINTER. and orrville should be running 4.3 with that new turf haha wish i had the chance to play on that field. something special. :thumbup:

WCALfootballfan;1262086 wrote:You may want to keep in mind that the Loudonville team that whacked that Smithville team with all those "football bodies" got destroyed by Norwayne in a scrimmage. I heard that Berger put on a clinic in that one. Can Bobcat14 or Dmax confirm that?

They played 2 quarters and Norwayne won 28 to nothing(figure in x-points)...they had no pass D what so ever and Berger did do just about what he wanted to and so did the rest of the WR.... if they would have kept stats i would have to say that Norwayne's QB probably had close to 300 yards passing in 2 quarters. Loudonville ran the ball well but they fumbled 5 maybe 6 times and that killed them..not sure if they got that fixed, if they did they will put up points

It's pretty ridiculous at this point to say with certainty that any player is hands down a top ten player. Teams are not even into league play yet, and with the quality teams in the league year in and year out, that is when the real players start to show up. Anyone can look good against non-league teams that don't know the players, the system, or the heart of the kids they are going against. However, when you have faced a kid every year since you were in middle school and know what they bring to the table, the true colors and determination of these boys come out. We will have a better idea of who deserves POY after week 7 or so. Then we can all look back and laugh