rrfan;1307781 wrote:Red Rider Nation you have lost your mind...please stop posting crazy stuff like that it is so far from the truth you can't even see the truth any more. Wow!! You are far off.

You get my point. A less talented than usual Dover team once again in Week 11. Excuses are running higher than the wind in Orrville! Funny really. Why even have a team if we can't compete with the teams we are playing? According to you guys that is where we are at so just let those kids play soccer. RR1 sounds like you are referring to business 101 when discussing succession planning. Any normal business that has a year like Orrville has makes necessary changes not to let it happen again. They sure dont sit around and hope they get better by chance!

The conversation, discussion, the argument is simply that over the previous few years Orrville has had some good and very good athletes. In saying that, yes, it obviously made coaching much easier.

Many are saying there is currently no talent on the football team, and likewise the basketball team. Perhaps, (and yes I said perhaps), the talent isn't as strong as some have been used to in years prior. I believe there's talent in the players, how much, who knows! This is where a coach earns his stripes! Can he pull every ounce of talent, work ethic and commitment out of his team? Can he design effective offense, defense and special team plays? It won't be found in hyping RTR nor in simply putting on the uniform. Now you'll see what kind of coaches you really have.

Series62;1307863 wrote:The conversation, discussion, the argument is simply that over the previous few years Orrville has had some good and very good athletes. In saying that, yes, it obviously made coaching much easier.

Many are saying there is currently no talent on the football team, and likewise the basketball team. Perhaps, (and yes I said perhaps), the talent isn't as strong as some have been used to in years prior. I believe there's talent in the players, how much, who knows! This is where a coach earns his stripes! Can he pull every ounce of talent, work ethic and commitment out of his team? Can he design effective offense, defense and special team plays? It won't be found in hyping RTR nor in simply putting on the uniform. Now you'll see what kind of coaches you really have.

Thanks for this post! You seem to lay it out better then me. That is it exactly. We can sit around and complain about talent all day long but ultimately it is the coach's job to make them better. No we were not gonna make the playoffs this regardless but 1-9 in Orrville is and always will be UNACCEPTABLE!

I actually agree with Series62.

How much talent...who knows, but it's clearly less than what we're used to. We don't go from 8 wins to 1 win, with nothing else changing, except the loss due to graduation of some talent.

If "every ounce" of the available talent is being extracted...again, we don't know if this is happenning or isn't happenning, how can the coach be at fault?

Some of that "extraction" also lies with the individual player as well. Same as a teacher in the classroom....they can only do so much...at some point, it's up to the kid to want to make themself better too. Same question has to be asked there too...are the kids extracting from themselves as much as they can? Top to bottom determination will dictate how soon we get back to winning football. Coaches included, and from the comments I've read in the paper, seems to be plenty of the coach making it something he is taking his share (all) of the blame for 1-9.

CCRolly;1307497 wrote:Yeah, I'm sure Dover and Orrville's team talent is pretty much on Par there.

Watched Dover /Wooster scrimmage this year with all do respect to Orrville, Dover had more explosive receivers and a little better running back but I think the big difference was the offensive and defensive lines. Orrville just didnt have the line play that they have had in the past. I think this is one big reason for some of the drop off this year I know its not the only reason but i think it has a lot to do with it.

Good points here. I would add that yes, we were blessed with what now we probably realize was an anomaly of talent for our town. Yes it had happened before....maybe once or twice that we had a group of athletes for several years that were just out of the norm. From a guy who only got to see one game this year in me and who is basin this opinion on what I have been told I think some of what happened to this team is that there was no "guy" to bail them out. We won plenty of games over the past few years on account of special guys making special plays or performances. Both basketball and football. Seems this team was waiting around for that guy all year and for some reason it never materialized. Whether that was because of injury of psyche I don't know, it just seemed we did not have any of those "performances" that people talk about for several days after the game. None of those "can you believe he caught that" or "no one could stop him last night". Maybe it takes a while for team to realize you don't need that to be successful, but when it has happened for so many years it is a hard habit to break out of. Just a thiught

That's an excellent point 5knots!

Series62;1307863 wrote:The conversation, discussion, the argument is simply that over the previous few years Orrville has had some good and very good athletes. In saying that, yes, it obviously made coaching much easier.

Many are saying there is currently no talent on the football team, and likewise the basketball team. Perhaps, (and yes I said perhaps), the talent isn't as strong as some have been used to in years prior. I believe there's talent in the players, how much, who knows! This is where a coach earns his stripes! Can he pull every ounce of talent, work ethic and commitment out of his team? Can he design effective offense, defense and special team plays? It won't be found in hyping RTR nor in simply putting on the uniform. Now you'll see what kind of coaches you really have.

Holy Crap I actually agree with that! Nice post.

Series...good post and I agree as well! I know Smitty could get the best out of his players even in the down years! Well...with Smitty you either did it his way or no way and there was no questions asked. The only downfall I see with Coach Devault is that the kids get off too easy at times. Needs to be more accountability and discipline has been an issue IMO!

Not saying I disagree...but it's a careful line to walk...if you're coming down hard on the kids, they quit (you know some would) and then instead of 40 kids, you have 30...and times are even tougher....and the folks who can't see that blame the coach.

Of course, you don't want to let kids get away with too much either....kids see that too and will get away with what an authority figure will allow (parent, teacher, coach).

If I'm Davault...the "change" starts now. Name 2013 captains right now and allow them to hold underclassmen accountable for off-season workouts. Set a plan in place right now. I know the coach has "exit meetings" with the other coaches. Now, while 1-9 is fresh in everyone's minds, is the time to discuss the big picture about what's coming up in the program and what we can do, even if the pool of talented kids is slim, to avoid 1-9 ever again.

No philosophy should be held too tight...whatever results in "better" is what should be done.

"Why even have a team if we can't compete with the teams we are playing?"

Very good point RRN. It is time to leave the OCC, and level the playing field for all of our athletes.

RedRider1;1308149 wrote:Not saying I disagree...but it's a careful line to walk...if you're coming down hard on the kids, they quit (you know some would) and then instead of 40 kids, you have 30...and times are even tougher....and the folks who can't see that blame the coach.

Of course, you don't want to let kids get away with too much either....kids see that too and will get away with what an authority figure will allow (parent, teacher, coach).

If I'm Davault...the "change" starts now. Name 2013 captains right now and allow them to hold underclassmen accountable for off-season workouts. Set a plan in place right now. I know the coach has "exit meetings" with the other coaches. Now, while 1-9 is fresh in everyone's minds, is the time to discuss the big picture about what's coming up in the program and what we can do, even if the pool of talented kids is slim, to avoid 1-9 ever again.

No philosophy should be held too tight...whatever results in "better" is what should be done.

I like the fact that you mentioned off-season workouts. last week I read an article in the daily record about Northwestern's football team. The first thing their coach mentioned for turning the program around was their dedication in the weight room. He said they were determined to get bigger and stronger. I really wish our players would feel that way . They always look like little kids out there compared the teams we play . Three simple steps..... lift big, eat big, get big !

Troll King;1308355 wrote:Three simple steps..... lift big, eat big, get big !

Back in the day, I was good at all three.

Today: only two.

BRF;1308358 wrote:Back in the day, I was good at all three.

Today: only two.

Lol

5knots;1307902 wrote:Good points here. I would add that yes, we were blessed with what now we probably realize was an anomaly of talent for our town. Yes it had happened before....maybe once or twice that we had a group of athletes for several years that were just out of the norm. From a guy who only got to see one game this year in me and who is basin this opinion on what I have been told I think some of what happened to this team is that there was no "guy" to bail them out. We won plenty of games over the past few years on account of special guys making special plays or performances. Both basketball and football. Seems this team was waiting around for that guy all year and for some reason it never materialized. Whether that was because of injury of psyche I don't know, it just seemed we did not have any of those "performances" that people talk about for several days after the game. None of those "can you believe he caught that" or "no one could stop him last night". Maybe it takes a while for team to realize you don't need that to be successful, but when it has happened for so many years it is a hard habit to break out of. Just a thiught

So I want to ask a question that only you answer: Was Norwayne more talented than Orrville last year? Yes or no? I dont need to know the breakdown of why we lost just a simple question? Player for player was Norwayne better???

BRF;1308358 wrote:Back in the day, I was good at all three.

Today: only two.

BRF he didnt say Act big! LOL!

Red Rider Nation;1308376 wrote:BRF he didnt say Act big! LOL!

Right...........kinda like you.



edit: peace pipe! Don't take it harshly. I don't want to fight.

Everything is good.

BRF;1308383 wrote:Right...........kinda like you.



edit: peace pipe! Don't take it harshly. I don't want to fight.




Everything is good.

Just messin with ya man! Ur a good kid!!!

Less than the usual talent.... difficult schedule.....kids with a lack of discipline... players that drop balls....Missed tackles.....

This all sounds like a perfect storm to me! I think a lot of great points have been made. I also think that it is difficult to argue that motivated, disciplined team with limited athletic ability that was coached perfectly would have faired much better in this conference and this schedule? One of the problems with a conference and schedule like this one is it will grab your heart and expose your week points immediately. This was a seriously hard one for the Riders. Lots of reasons being thrown around for the cause. That leads me to believe it aint "all" the coach..... He could probably take some of the blame and if he is any good at all he does, but seems to be too many factors here for me to jump ship on him yet......EVERYONE I know and trust from the Ville is telling me without question the upcoming years are going to be hard in the talent department. That is gonna make it hard in this league and with our schedule. Hope we can get something respectable figured out. I don't know that all I care to see is playoff football? What I mean is if your gonna loose at least make sure the team you play know they were in a battle... It doesn't take a lot of talent to lay some wood, time for the old 50 defense to come back baby!!! LOL, I will always believe in my home town... These kids should be in the weight room TODAY!!!! They should have a countdown until the official starting day of next season....receivers should be sleeping with footballs.....Linebackers should be mixing gun powder with their cereal in the mornings..... Time to get it in and get serious.... I Love Orrville and I will always love my team! And if these kids aint "up" for the challenge thats fine they can join the band or debate team...(no disrespect to either) but there are other things that they can decide to do with their time that isn't as "hard" as football!!!! Come on Riders, be Riders!!!!!

Its late, I'm tired, good night........ WHAT MAKES THE GRASS GROW????????

Red Rider Nation;1308369 wrote:So I want to ask a question that only you answer: Was Norwayne more talented than Orrville last year? Yes or no? I dont need to know the breakdown of why we lost just a simple question? Player for player was Norwayne better???

I would fall on the side that would say yes to this. As a team top to bottom no doubt they were a solid ball club. Add to that we had our #1 WR playing QB and Mason tried playing with a separated shoulder so...maybe 50-60% ( anyone who saw the first playoff game where he layed out and caught that long pass down the middle from Brenner knows exactly when he did that) . But even with Mason healthy and Brenner at WR I'd give Norwayne the edge. I think you will see that their most gifted athletes were the soph and Juniors that year. I would be surprised if a couple DI offers don't come out of that bunch.

[QUOTE=sanitizer;

Its late, I'm tired, good night........ WHAT MAKES THE GRASS GROW????????[/QUOTE]

BLOOD, BLOOD, BLOOD!!!

Red Rider Nation;1308369 wrote:So I want to ask a question that only you answer: Was Norwayne more talented than Orrville last year? Yes or no? I dont need to know the breakdown of why we lost just a simple question? Player for player was Norwayne better???

Yes Norwayne was better and it was not even close.

5knots;1308556 wrote:I would fall on the side that would say yes to this. As a team top to bottom no doubt they were a solid ball club. Add to that we had our #1 WR playing QB and Mason tried playing with a separated shoulder so...maybe 50-60% ( anyone who saw the first playoff game where he layed out and caught that long pass down the middle from Brenner knows exactly when he did that) . But even with Mason healthy and Brenner at WR I'd give Norwayne the edge. I think you will see that their most gifted athletes were the soph and Juniors that year. I would be surprised if a couple DI offers don't come out of that bunch.

Fair enough. Then I am wrong. Thanks for clearing that up

Red Rider Nation;1308369 wrote:So I want to ask a question that only you answer: Was Norwayne more talented than Orrville last year? Yes or no? I dont need to know the breakdown of why we lost just a simple question? Player for player was Norwayne better???

I know its already been answered, but I thought without question that we matched them athletically....where they beat us was in the trenches and thats exactly where we struggled this year as well! My two cents...and by the way....can we stop talking about Norwayne and a game from last season! Makes me sick!

Old Rider;1308585 wrote:I know its already been answered, but I thought without question that we matched them athletically....where they beat us was in the trenches and thats exactly where we struggled this year as well! My two cents...and by the way....can we stop talking about Norwayne and a game from last season! Makes me sick!

I know but unfortunately they will be talked about a lot in Wayne County. They have a great program there right now and its not like that is a great place to live either and they dont have a ton of jobs. Throw that argument out!!! That town shuts down at 8pm too and there isnt squat to do or offer families there. Facilities are a joke so back to the drawing board!