I think that the mistake the officials made was calling the game too tight for the first 2 and a half quarters, then letting everything go for awhile, and finally trying to get some control back at the end. Plenty of calls went against Norwayne as well, especially no-calls that would have been fouls shots and became turnovers. I thought there was a goal-tend as well, which is a huge call since it directly involves points. I don't believe the number of fouls always has to be equal just because the game is physical. I always hate for good players to have to sit because of foul trouble, and Wallace and Harris for Norwayne missed time along with Winters. I'd like to tell you that no Bobcat fans would be posting about the officiating if Orrville had won, but I'm not so sure.

Except for a few stretches (especially the final minute), I thought Orrville played tough and didn't look like a one-win team. I know the OCC is pretty strong, but I have to think they'll go on a run at some point and be tough in the post-season. It was the first game I've seen all year where Norwayne didn't have an edge in size and athleticism.

Orrville definitely had the edge in size but I wouldnt say they had the edge in athleticism

Kurty66-
I agree with you 100% and you nailed it when you said "I think that the mistake the officials made was calling the game too tight for the first 2 and a half quarters, then letting everything go for awhile, and finally trying to get some control back at the end". This is what I'm so frustrated with. You always hear coaches and announcers etc. saying you have to adjust game to game how the game is being called. This is BS because how is a player suppose to adapt every time down the court. This was evident in last nights game. If it's a foul in the first it's still a foul in the fourth. If a player runs over a screening player in the first it's still a foul in the fourth. If your main complaint was a goal-tending call last night and you're a Bobcat fan then it proved my point about the calls. (It was most definitely a goal-tend) Is it more difficult for three officials to get on the same page? We use to have only 2. You would think 3 would be better than 2 but I'm not so sure. SOMEONE FROM BOBCAT COUNTRY PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION. DO THE REFS FROM LAST NIGHTS GAME OFFICIATE IN THE WCAL? MY INTENT IS NOT TO MAKE IT A WCAL THING! WE DON'T SEE THESE GUYS DURING THE REGULAR SEASON AND I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THEY'RE ALWAYS THAT BAD AND IF THEY REF TOGETHER OFTEN.

Bobcat;1048389 wrote:Orrville definitely had the edge in size but I wouldnt say they had the edge in athleticism

I didn't say Orrville had an edge in either, just that Norwayne didn't have an edge. The 6'10" kid was an obvious length advantage and the athleticism was pretty even. It was interesting that with a 6'6" and 6'10" kid for each team, a pair of 6'3" kids (Brenner and Harris) contested the opening tip.

Paul;1048233 wrote:Norwayne played Orrville about 20 years ago at the Canton Fieldhouse both teams knew the team that wins would go on to win State. Orrville won by 5 or 6 points because Norwayne never got to the line to shoot a foul shot during the whole game, Not one time did a Norwayne player stand on the line to shoot a foul, My first and only game I know of that a team never shoot a foul shot. Orrville won the State. Orrville fans get over it Norwayne won.

(1995 District Final)...and you are wrong on shooting foul shots, Norwayne got to the line. I played in that game.

otownexpert;1048448 wrote:Kurty66-
I agree with you 100% and you nailed it when you said "I think that the mistake the officials made was calling the game too tight for the first 2 and a half quarters, then letting everything go for awhile, and finally trying to get some control back at the end". This is what I'm so frustrated with. You always hear coaches and announcers etc. saying you have to adjust game to game how the game is being called. This is BS because how is a player suppose to adapt every time down the court. This was evident in last nights game. If it's a foul in the first it's still a foul in the fourth. If a player runs over a screening player in the first it's still a foul in the fourth. If your main complaint was a goal-tending call last night and you're a Bobcat fan then it proved my point about the calls. (It was most definitely a goal-tend) Is it more difficult for three officials to get on the same page? We use to have only 2. You would think 3 would be better than 2 but I'm not so sure. SOMEONE FROM BOBCAT COUNTRY PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION. DO THE REFS FROM LAST NIGHTS GAME OFFICIATE IN THE WCAL? MY INTENT IS NOT TO MAKE IT A WCAL THING! WE DON'T SEE THESE GUYS DURING THE REGULAR SEASON AND I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THEY'RE ALWAYS THAT BAD AND IF THEY REF TOGETHER OFTEN.

Otown- my main complaint was goal-tending because that was a certain 2 points. I thought several fouls were missed when Orrville was over the limit and would have led to foul shots instead of turnovers, but you can't assume the foul shots go in, and it was 1 and 1 until the last few seconds. I also agree that there were some no calls that might have had Orrville shooting sooner or keeping the ball. I did see Davis shove off with his forearm once, but he was being held and that didn't get called either. Like the officials, I missed the other one you were talking about. You may be right about the screens - I tend to follow the basketball too much.
About the refs - I'm not certain, so I didn't answer. I have seen one guy before in WCAL games, but he seemed the most competent to me (we'd probably disagree on that as well). They weren't consistent - I'll give you that.

Old Rider;1047966 wrote: but I can promise you this...the officiating will not be favorable (in the eyes of the Red Riders) at the Wooster District either.

You mean now that a red rider alum isn't the tournament director?

Just for the record the tournament director does not assign refs for those district games

Although I thought the refing was somewhat inconsistent, that's not something you can control and wasn't the reason we lost. We shot better from the outside and made foul shots, so that's a positive. We seem to be able to force teams to shoot from the outside and not let them get inside. Davis scored most of his inside points when Winters was out and Brenner wasn't guarding him. I would still like to see us get it to Winters more in places he can score from. Some picks to get him free to get a lob or in position to turn and shoot. We throw too, many at his knees and feet or when he's in a position he has to do something fancy like dribble.

ridernation;1048580 wrote:Just for the record the tournament director does not assign refs for those district games

I realize this, my comment was a joke directed at a few of the rider fans who know me a little better than you do.

Old Rider;1048473 wrote:(1995 District Final)...and you are wrong on shooting foul shots, Norwayne got to the line. I played in that game.

It was before 95, I only remember one kid who played in it, (Wolf) I believe the Wolf who coaches football at Doylestown Now. Did you play against Wolf.

welcome to norwayne !!

That's the wrong wolf. It was his younger brother Josh that played on that team which was the best that norwayne ever had. In fact it was the best collection of hoops talent ever in Wayne county IMO with orrville Dalton norwayne and northwestern all exceptional

kevin wolf graduated in 93....his brother josh graduated in 95

Paul;1048629 wrote:It was before 95, I only remember one kid who played in it, (Wolf) I believe the Wolf who coaches football at Doylestown Now. Did you play against Wolf.

1486wd;1048696 wrote:That's the wrong wolf. It was his younger brother Josh that played on that team which was the best that norwayne ever had. In fact it was the best collection of hoops talent ever in Wayne county IMO with orrville Dalton norwayne and northwestern all exceptional

Ok Thanks.

1486wd;1048696 wrote:That's the wrong wolf. It was his younger brother Josh that played on that team which was the best that norwayne ever had. In fact it was the best collection of hoops talent ever in Wayne county IMO with orrville Dalton norwayne and northwestern all exceptional

We beat them twice that year. They were VERY talented and probably one of the best WCAL teams ever?? But not the best is the entire county!

They started Piatt, Rupp, Wolf, Coffey, and Winkler. with J.Gasser 6th man. We lost to that same group in the 94 District final at Smithville.

fergie;1048712 wrote:kevin wolf graduated in 93....his brother josh graduated in 95

Yes, I played against both of them at different times throughout high school.

Old Rider;1048897 wrote:We beat them twice that year. They were VERY talented and probably one of the best WCAL teams ever?? But not the best is the entire county!

They started Piatt, Rupp, Wolf, Coffey, and Winkler. with J.Gasser 6th man. We lost to that same group in the 94 District final at Smithville.

. Truly amazing talent in the county those years (94-96)

1486wd;1049153 wrote:. Truly amazing talent in the county those years (94-96)

Throw in Triway's Ryan Lent, who scored 581 pts (27.7 avg) in 1996 season, then was DII Player of the Year in 1997. He is Triway's 2nd career leader in scoring.

thePITman;1049261 wrote:Throw in Triway's Ryan Lent, who scored 581 pts (27.7 avg) in 1996 season, then was DII Player of the Year in 1997. He is Triway's 2nd career leader in scoring.

And don't forget Dalton...they went to state with Berg, Stutz, Endsley and co. in 1995 as well.

Yes, the county was loaded with talent at that time.

Oh, and I forgot my buddies from Northwestern that beat us in 1995 at their soap box of a gym. Gaubatz, Howman, and McCormick

Old Rider;1049750 wrote:And don't forget Dalton...they went to state with Berg, Stutz, Endsley and co. in 1995 as well.

Yes, the county was loaded with talent at that time.

Oh, and I forgot my buddies from Northwestern that beat us in 1995 at their soap box of a gym. Gaubatz, Howman, and McCormick

and 1996

mentioned both those teams above oldrider, but did forget about lent.

Not sure how Orrville thinks they got "homered" by the refs. 2 of those guys are from the Akron area so they have no ties to Orrville or Norwayne at all. To think that refs come into games and want to determine the outcome is completely idiotic! Our calls are based on what we SEE! Are there missed calls? YES. Are we perfect? NO! When you are on the floor, 2' away from the players, your angle on a play is a lot different then if your in the center section of stands, 10 rows up. As a veteran official, there were calls that were missed for both teams from my angle in the stands, but overall, those refs did a decent job from their POV. To all the complainers out there, classes start around August. Lets see how many of you show up.

Ref-Dawg;1050876 wrote: To all the complainers out there, classes start around August. Lets see how many of you show up.

Is this a question they teach officials to ask fans during their training? Seriously, I have heard numerous officials say this very same line. Not to me necessarily, except that one time and that was at a Manchester fottball game, so that doesn't really count.

Ref-Dawg,
You hit the nail on the head....it cracks me up how people can't see past their own school colors enough to blame the officials. Great post!