dontcare;1047550 wrote:I wanna see the Bobcats take on Hiland.

LOL

Norwayne has a nice team. Not great but ok.

Paul, you might be looking at yourself in the mirror had you been on the receiving end of what we experienced tonight. What was called on the Riders was not called on the Bobcats. It wasn't the same on both ends. Norwayne can't control what the officials call so I wont call it "homer" but it was very obvious the officials on this game was not capable and ready for the physical play. I have never witnessed a game that the same foul wasn't treated the same on both ends. Winter and Summers spent the majority of the game on the bench in foul trouble while Norwayne's big has no fouls 3/4 through the 4th. I don't even know if he had one called all night. He elbows Summers' twice in the open court right in front of the official and nothing called? Come on. I have only ever seen one of these guys before. Serious question........not calling out the WCAL. Do they ref in the WCAL?

THE4RINGZ;1047552 wrote:LOL

Hiland wouldn't know what hit them......

otownexpert;1047598 wrote:Norwayne has a nice team. Not great but ok.

Paul, you might be looking at yourself in the mirror had you been on the receiving end of what we experienced tonight. What was called on the Riders was not called on the Bobcats. It wasn't the same on both ends. Norwayne can't control what the officials call so I wont call it "homer" but it was very obvious the officials on this game was not capable and ready for the physical play. I have never witnessed a game that the same foul wasn't treated the same on both ends. Winter and Summers spent the majority of the game on the bench in foul trouble while Norwayne's big has no fouls 3/4 through the 4th. I don't even know if he had one called all night. He elbows Summers' twice in the open court right in front of the official and nothing called? Come on. I have only ever seen one of these guys before. Serious question........not calling out the WCAL. Do they ref in the WCAL?

Norwayne knows how to play great defense without fouling.

otownexpert;1047598 wrote:Norwayne has a nice team. Not great but ok.

Paul, you might be looking at yourself in the mirror had you been on the receiving end of what we experienced tonight. What was called on the Riders was not called on the Bobcats. It wasn't the same on both ends. Norwayne can't control what the officials call so I wont call it "homer" but it was very obvious the officials on this game was not capable and ready for the physical play. I have never witnessed a game that the same foul wasn't treated the same on both ends. Winter and Summers spent the majority of the game on the bench in foul trouble while Norwayne's big has no fouls 3/4 through the 4th. I don't even know if he had one called all night. He elbows Summers' twice in the open court right in front of the official and nothing called? Come on. I have only ever seen one of these guys before. Serious question........not calling out the WCAL. Do they ref in the WCAL?

I was at the game also and I thought the ref let both teams get away with a lot in the key.

Dmax1-

I feel Winter is a difference maker in this game but the officials were ticky tack with him and it changed the outcome with him on the bench. I disagree with you. We got the short end in the paint!

Dontcare-

No way Norwayne plays that great of defense in a physical game. Sorry.

Good Luck to both teams and lets hope for a district final in Wooster. Orrville has lost a lot of close games this year. Norwayne will not be challenged the rest of the way. Hopefully were not in the same side of the bracket because who knows if we see a seed?

dontcare;1047550 wrote:I wanna see the Bobcats take on Hiland.

I saw Norwayne at the Steve Smith Classic. They have a nice team. Hiland and Norwayne did have a couple of mutual opponents this year. Orrville and West Holmes. Hiland defeated them Orville by 28 and West Holmes by 22 with Arnold at the point the whole game. Norwayne defeated them in much closer contests. I doubt Norwaye would get much closer.

I would like to see Hiland schedule some more Wayne county teams in the future. Less travel with some good potential matchups. With the 22 game schedule coming up I hope they do. Back in my day Hiland used to play a lot more Wayne county teams. That pretty much ended when the IVC went to the home/away schedule. Hiland is 4-0 against Norwayne. Hiland in the past had scheduled Dalton, Northwestern, Orrville, Smithville, and Waynedale a good number of times. The only Wayne county school they have never played that I know of is Wooster.

The worst part was at the end when they in bounded the ball with 11 sec and threw it in the back court and we fouled them shortly after that and there was only 1.6 secs on the clock. They must have started the clock before he threw it. Was that why the technical?

Wow one of the worst officiated games I have saw in a while at both ends, but more against Orrville no question. If norwayne plays Hiland on a neutral court, norwayne losses by 20. If norwayne plays at home with those refs you have a chance. I think it is funny how norwayne fans say orrville was playing it like a football game, really. I know West and how he coaches and you can ask other WCL coaches, who is the most questionable and dirty team in the county, see what they tell you. So don't act like norwayne is an angel and that West wasn't crying for fouls either.

Flash;1047901 wrote:The worst part was at the end when they in bounded the ball with 11 sec and threw it in the back court and we fouled them shortly after that and there was only 1.6 secs on the clock. They must have started the clock before he threw it. Was that why the technical?

There were 4.6 sec on the clock when they took the ball out not 11 sec

majorspark;1047827 wrote:I saw Norwayne at the Steve Smith Classic. They have a nice team. Hiland and Norwayne did have a couple of mutual opponents this year. Orrville and West Holmes. Hiland defeated them Orville by 28 and West Holmes by 22 with Arnold at the point the whole game. Norwayne defeated them in much closer contests. I doubt Norwaye would get much closer.

I would like to see Hiland schedule some more Wayne county teams in the future. Less travel with some good potential matchups. With the 22 game schedule coming up I hope they do. Back in my day Hiland used to play a lot more Wayne county teams. That pretty much ended when the IVC went to the home/away schedule. Hiland is 4-0 against Norwayne. Hiland in the past had scheduled Dalton, Northwestern, Orrville, Smithville, and Waynedale a good number of times. The only Wayne county school they have never played that I know of is Wooster.

Don't think they ever played Hillsdale--or Chippewa; not sure about Rittman. Maybe once in tournaments a few years back.
Wouldn't mind a home and home series with Orrville regularly, Less travel and a traditionally strong program. If Hiland had a couple other non league openings, rotating between other WCAL teams wouldn't be a bad idea. But with E Canton coming on board next year, they'll be back to only having 4 nonleague games a year.

Wow it sounds like all you Orrville people have sour grapes. I do not think referees ever favor one team or another. The refs are either good or they are incompetent. It sounds like they were incompetent and Norwayne got the lesser of the bad calls. Stop your wining about the refs favoring Norwayne!

Lets just hope for a rematch, but I can promise you this...the officiating will not be favorable (in the eyes of the Red Riders) at the Wooster District either.

From what I heard on the radio it sounded like a very physical game and the fouls seemed to always go Norwayne's way,...BUT we had plenty of opportunities to stretch the lead. We turned it over late, missed some free throws and open lay-ups.

My question is...Why didn't we foul Davis right when he touched the ball on their final score? I thought it would have made more sense to put him at the line while we had a one point lead. I don't know??? Thats why I don't coach.

You may be right about the time on the clock. Everything happened fast at the end. So what were we complaining about at the end to get a T. I'm not blaming the ref's for the loss. We've found a way to lose this year at the end of games. Actually I thought we played well except for the end of the game where we turned it over. Norwayne has two players and the rest athletes.

Flash;1048004 wrote:So what were we complaining about at the end to get a T.

Here is a text I got from an Orrville fan last night:

Norwayne 62-58. Final. Slaughter got a T arguing when the clock should have stopped on a foul and Norwayne iced it from the line.

Anyone remember the Orrville scoreboard operator who let the clock run an extra 8-10 seconds at the end of a JV game a few years ago, giving them the win? I've never seen such a deliberate display of incompetence, and the lady acted as if she didn't know what happened. Yeah... But, it was JV, so nobody really cared except those on the losing end of that huge histake... Anyway, my point is all scoreboard operators have had their "oops" moments. This Orrville/Norwayne one just happened at a very inopportune time.

Since the software we use for stats keeps track of time during the basketball game, every time the clock starts or stops, I am starting/stopping the clock every time, too, keeping it in sync with the game clock. Because of this, I have a very good idea of which gyms and scoreboard operators have good and bad tendencies. I often am the one you'll hear exclaiming "start the clock" from the stands, 'cuz oftentimes I'm the only one looking to make sure it starts before I start my clock. (this just happened at Tuslaw last Friday, didn't start for almost 6-7 seconds when they were behind and trying to set up a shot at the end of a quarter) Orrville is far from the worst, but not that great, either. The worst, by far, is Manchester. If they are ahead, the clock will start 1-2 seconds early every time, and end a second late every time. If they're behind, it will start late and stop early. Fairless is another with that tendency, especially since a PAC-7 referee with personal agenda and bad experiences with Triway is their scoreboard operator... kind of a conflict of interest. Northwestern is generally very good with their clock, as are Triway, Waynedale, CVCA, and sometimes West Holmes. Wooster is pretty bad, definitely worse than Orrville. And during the tournament, it doesn't help when the lady at the scoreboard keeps messing with her crutches instead of paying attention to the game.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. If you ever have a game at Manchester, pay attention.

With how we have lost games this year it's not sour grapes at all. Anyone knowing anything about basketball will acknowledge Orrville was on the receiving end of non-calls all night. Take running through a screen for an example, we did it and received a foul. Norwayne does it and sends our player into our bench......nothing called. It's a foul on both accounts. Norwayne takes the ball to the basket and Winters gets body fouls we get mugged doing the same and no foul. Brenner's attempting a shot at the end of the game and has a triple team hanging all over him....you guessed it...nothing. Do these guys ref in the WCAL? We have not seen them much or at all? Do these guys ref in the area at all?

Interesting Pitman--never realized there was that much difference from place to place with the shot clock--never really paid attention. Will have to keep a closer eye on things!

Otownexpert, do you honestly believe that these refs were purposely favoring Norwayne? Get real! These were just incompetent refs who should not be reffing varsity games. They were just bad and did not favor any team.

Referees are always against the team YOU cheer for, that's just good old healthy competition!

TeeGreen-

Absolutely.... I think their calls favored Norwayne last night and I'm real about that. Intentional maybe not but who knows. Officials just are not good period. Basketball has become a game of too much interpretation and games way heavily on those interpretations. Fouls were not the same on both ends as my previous post examples. Norwayne's team or fans had nothing to do with it. It was not evenly called. I realize it's part of the game and we could have won the game anyways but remember it was our guys in foul trouble at the end of the game and gave Norwayne opportunities. Foul trouble forced us to play line-ups we have not seen all year on the floor. When Winters fouled out it became an instant advantage. You can't call small body contact on a player after what was going on inside on Norwayne's end. Bodies flying around players hooking and falling out of bounds. I'm all for physical game play but keep it even on both ends. The Cats were having to foul intentionally with 1:30 left down 2 because they were no where close to the bonus. With both teams playing this physical each team should have been in the bonus with 3 minutes left. Overall it was an exciting game and atmosphere.

thePITman;1048010 wrote:

The worst, by far, is Manchester. If they are ahead, the clock will start 1-2 seconds early every time, and end a second late every time. If they're behind, it will start late and stop early.

If you ever have a game at Manchester, pay attention.

Otownexpert,

You are right that the game has changed from 20 or 30 years ago from a reffing standpoint. The game has changed so much, that it is hard to tell what is a foul or not. I agree with you that the officiating has really gotten subpar over the years. I just don't think that those refs were that smart enough last night to intentionally favor one team over the other. But I do see your point.

otownexpert;1048094 wrote:TeeGreen-

Absolutely.... I think their calls favored Norwayne last night and I'm real about that. Intentional maybe not but who knows. Officials just are not good period. Basketball has become a game of too much interpretation and games way heavily on those interpretations. Fouls were not the same on both ends as my previous post examples. Norwayne's team or fans had nothing to do with it. It was not evenly called. I realize it's part of the game and we could have won the game anyways but remember it was our guys in foul trouble at the end of the game and gave Norwayne opportunities. Foul trouble forced us to play line-ups we have not seen all year on the floor. When Winters fouled out it became an instant advantage. You can't call small body contact on a player after what was going on inside on Norwayne's end. Bodies flying around players hooking and falling out of bounds. I'm all for physical game play but keep it even on both ends. The Cats were having to foul intentionally with 1:30 left down 2 because they were no where close to the bonus. With both teams playing this physical each team should have been in the bonus with 3 minutes left. Overall it was an exciting game and atmosphere.

Norwayne played Orrville about 20 years ago at the Canton Fieldhouse both teams knew the team that wins would go on to win State. Orrville won by 5 or 6 points because Norwayne never got to the line to shoot a foul shot during the whole game, Not one time did a Norwayne player stand on the line to shoot a foul, My first and only game I know of that a team never shoot a foul shot. Orrville won the State. Orrville fans get over it Norwayne won.

Paul-
I'm not taking anything away from Norwayne. I have not debated the winner of the game. I have only questioned the officials calling fouls that appeared differently depending on what end they were committed. What does 20 years ago have to do with what happened last night especially since I was only 5! LOL The issue I witnessed last night has everything to do with terrible officials. Even friends I have from Norwayne who attended thought the calls went against us. Unfortunately they're part of the game. These days........a large part.

I have to agree the calls where terrible yes they were a "little" one sided.....but show me a game this year that isnt, maybe a handful,...IMO i think Orrvilles coach was more concerned with the refs then he was with not losing the game, I understand that u want to voice your opionion on the bad calls, but you still have to coach....all his attention was spent yelling at the refs, which they deserved, they were horrible, but it is what it is....Norwayne had it happen to them in Loudonville, but Coach West concentrated on the game and kept repeating "Play through it".....As a head coach you have to stay under control and keep your team under control. I have not seen Orrville play this year , last night was the first time, they have a very talented team with outside shooting and inside scoring, but I just think they let the refs get to them and the Coach should have tried settle them down....you were only down by 1 with 2 seconds left.....anything could happen......not a good time for a "T".......get the "T" in the 2nd or 3rd quarter and let them know you are not happy and be done with it and play through it........