Con_Alma;951905 wrote:They chose poorly.

Maybe they shouldn't have went away to school. Maybe they should have commuted and worked while in school.

Their "good faith" gamble was a bad decision. Someone else shouldn't foot the bill.

In addition, although the national unemployment rate may be around 9% the unemployment rate for those with a college degree is around 4%.

You can commute and work while in school and still have a fuck load of debt. I do. And I don't go to an expensive school either, I go to one of if not the cheapest state school in Ohio.

BoatShoes;951910 wrote:"She has no idea what the problems are." I mean jeez. What an outrageous statement to make. The woman has forgotten more about economics than you will ever know.

And, will you stop peddling this nonsense about the "real inflation" the BLS is hiding from us? You keep saying this but do you have a link? Let me guess. Shadow Government Stats right? LOL.

Your suggestion that inflation statistics would be higher if we still used the Laspeyres formula, etc. is off base. Here is the BLS refuting these notions that inflation is understated. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/08/art1full.pdf

Please provide a source to support your erroneous claims that inflation is as high as it was in the early 80's.

I'm sure the government has a lot of studies to back up their numbers, but the fact of the matter is that food prices are up 7% and energy prices up 20% over last year, so I'm sure people are comforted by the fact that the CPI is 3.5%. And John Williams' numbers have been reported by media like CNBC and Fox Business. It's not like he is some clown blogging out of his mom's basement. He is every bit as credible as our federal government.

The CPI is a poor measure of inflation anyway. Prices should be plummeting right now but they aren't. The Fed prints the money and buys t-bills with it. The government takes that money and props up housing prices and drives up education and health care prices and voila, you have GDP growth. What a joke.

People can't pay the propped up prices. That's why they need to fall. It's simple. Too simple for the Keynesians though. Are we supposed to just keep printing money and handing it out so people can pay these prices? But the money printing drives them up, so what, we keep dragging the cheese on the string in front of people's faces to keep them distracted from the fact that they are fucked?

Romer may have forgotten more textbook "economics" than I ever knew, but she obviously has no idea what we need to do now.

Blaming globalization is misguided. You have to know why we aren't competitive to fix the problem. Tariffs would just destroy what is left of the middle class with skyrocketing prices. The freedom and reasonably sound money we had for the first 130 years of our existence allowed us to become to richest nation on earth. Our goods were the cheapest in the world and our wages the highest in the world.

For the last 100 years as we have continuously debased our money and the government took over more and more of the economy we drove up the price and nominal wage level to a point where we no longer had a competitive advantage. Rather than stop the car and fix the problem we slammed on the gas and have run over a cliff. Good work all around.

Cleveland Buck;952855 wrote:I'm sure the government has a lot of studies to back up their numbers, but the fact of the matter is that food prices are up 7% and energy prices up 20% over last year, so I'm sure people are comforted by the fact that the CPI is 3.5%. And John Williams' numbers have been reported by media like CNBC and Fox Business. It's not like he is some clown blogging out of his mom's basement. He is every bit as credible as our federal government.

The CPI is a poor measure of inflation anyway. Prices should be plummeting right now but they aren't. The Fed prints the money and buys t-bills with it. The government takes that money and props up housing prices and drives up education and health care prices and voila, you have GDP growth. What a joke.

People can't pay the propped up prices. That's why they need to fall. It's simple. Too simple for the Keynesians though. Are we supposed to just keep printing money and handing it out so people can pay these prices? But the money printing drives them up, so what, we keep dragging the cheese on the string in front of people's faces to keep them distracted from the fact that they are fucked?

Romer may have forgotten more textbook "economics" than I ever knew, but she obviously has no idea what we need to do now.

Blaming globalization is misguided. You have to know why we aren't competitive to fix the problem. Tariffs would just destroy what is left of the middle class with skyrocketing prices. The freedom and reasonably sound money we had for the first 130 years of our existence allowed us to become to richest nation on earth. Our goods were the cheapest in the world and our wages the highest in the world.

For the last 100 years as we have continuously debased our money and the government took over more and more of the economy we drove up the price and nominal wage level to a point where we no longer had a competitive advantage. Rather than stop the car and fix the problem we slammed on the gas and have run over a cliff. Good work all around.

Lol @ us having the highest wages and being the richest nation on earth 100 years ago. We weren't.

I Wear Pants;952794 wrote:You can commute and work while in school and still have a fuck load of debt.

Commute to school, commute to a regional campus, community college, or maybe keep a part time schedule in school and find work. None of these options will leave you with $50,000-$80,000 in student loan debt. Or do a Steve Jobs and say screw it and head to your parents garage and come up with a product that people will purchase before they ever think of purchasing health insurance or paying their student loans back.

Ah yes the good old "why don't you just invent something" argument. It's astonishing how much conservatives hate higher education. You'd think it punch them in the dick or something.

I Wear Pants;952925 wrote:Ah yes the good old "why don't you just invent something" argument. It's astonishing how much conservatives hate higher education. You'd think it punch them in the dick or something.

It was just an option. I love higher education. I have one. Just be personally responsible in how you get one.

majorspark;952935 wrote:It was just an option. I love higher education. I have one. Just be personally responsible in how you get one.

and realize that even if you get an education in a field with some amount of demand, no one owes you a job. No one.

I Wear Pants;952794 wrote:You can commute and work while in school and still have a **** load of debt. I do. And I don't go to an expensive school either, I go to one of if not the cheapest state school in Ohio.

You left out part of my equation which was work while you're in school. Pay for your education while you are realizing the costs that exists to educate you. Work full time if need be.

You need not have any debt. It's the asme way I pay for a car; work, save cash, buy the thing.

In addition, secondary education shouldn't necessarily exist as a means to simply create economic opportunity for the student. That may be why you're seeking it out but it if that's the case you are rolling the dice even more! Good luck to you.

Con_Alma;952997 wrote:You left out part of my equation which was work while you're in school. Pay for your education while you are realizing the costs that exists to educate you. Work full time if need be.

You need not have any debt. It's the asme way I pay for a car; work, save cash, buy the thing.

In addition, secondary education shouldn't necessarily exist as a means to simply create economic opportunity for the student. That may be why you're seeking it out but it if that's the case you are rolling the dice even more! Good luck to you.

The problem is that prices of education have inflated out of control thanks to the federal government. If they never got involved it would still be cheap enough to work your way through school. The thing is as we have inflated our way to becoming completely uncompetitive over the years, they don't want those people taking jobs from people that aren't in school so they can claim a lower unemployment rate.

Con_Alma;952997 wrote:You left out part of my equation which was work while you're in school. Pay for your education while you are realizing the costs that exists to educate you. Work full time if need be.

You need not have any debt. It's the asme way I pay for a car; work, save cash, buy the thing.

In addition, secondary education shouldn't necessarily exist as a means to simply create economic opportunity for the student. That may be why you're seeking it out but it if that's the case you are rolling the dice even more! Good luck to you.

What part of "commute and work while in school" didn't imply that I do work?

I Wear Pants;953085 wrote:What part of "commute and work while in school" didn't imply that I do work?

What part of my statement of paying as you go to not accumulate debt wasn't clear?

It's an important part of the equation which negates your previous statement of still accumulating debt even if commuting.

majorspark;952935 wrote:It was just an option. I love higher education. I have one. Just be personally responsible in how you get one.

It'd probably take me a decade to get my BS with no loans. If by "responsible" you mean no loans.

I Wear Pants;953096 wrote:It'd probably take me a decade to get my BS with no loans. If by "responsible" you mean no loans.

How long would it take you to pay off loans for the education if you chose to fund them that way?

Con_Alma;953094 wrote:What part of my statement of paying as you go to not accumulate debt wasn't clear?

It's an important part of the equation which negates your previous statement of still accumulating debt even if commuting.

Yes, I'll get right on that. I see now that I should work food service for a decade while taking part time classes. I'm sure starting entry level work in my field at 30 will do me well!

Fuck that. Besides, I never said I wasn't going to be able to pay off my loans. But screw you if you think everyone should waste 10 years of their life just so they can meet your standard of getting it done on their own or whatever.

Con_Alma;953104 wrote:How long would it take you to pay off loans for the education if you chose to fund them that way?

It depends on my income. As both the payment schedules and my ability to pay the minimum/more than the minimum depends on that.

I Wear Pants;953105 wrote:Yes, I'll get right on that. I see now that I should work food service for a decade while taking part time classes. I'm sure starting entry level work in my field at 30 will do me well!

**** that. Besides, I never said I wasn't going to be able to pay off my loans. But screw you if you think everyone should waste 10 years of their life just so they can meet your standard of getting it done on their own or whatever.

I don't think people should wast any part of their life.

They have a choice. They are not forced to go into debt nor are they forced to work for 10 years while obtaining their degree. Neither are easy.

Suggesting that only one option makes sense and then expecting the debt to be forgiven is not one of the choices nor do I believe it should be.

I Wear Pants;953106 wrote:It depends on my income. As both the payment schedules and my ability to pay the minimum/more than the minimum depends on that.

I understand that. It was a leading question designed to highlight the fact that there is a cost no matter the direction one chooses.

Con_Alma;953110 wrote:I understand that. It was a leading question designed to highlight the fact that there is a cost no matter the direction one chooses.

Well yes, but this idea that "I was able to get through school with no loans blah blah blah I am hard working blah blah blah why can't everyone else do the same?" irks me. Not that you've said as much but others have. It's incredible that people can think their anecdotal experiences can provide blanket statements of an entire country and that they make character judgements based upon them. Everyone who goes into debt to pay for school is irresponsible, everyone that doesn't have a job is lazy, etc. Those things are simply not applicable to a lot of people. Of course there are people who do fit those descriptions but acting like they're facts is a bit ridiculous.

As for forgiving all student loan debt. I'd agree, that doesn't really make sense. What do you think of the current situation where if you make your payments for 15 years (think it's 15) then the balance is forgiven?

...As for forgiving all student loan debt. I'd agree, that doesn't really make sense. What do you think of the current situation where if you make your payments for 15 years (think it's 15) then the balance is forgiven?

I think it's awful.

Here's the choices.

Work and pay as you go.

Take a loan to cover the costs of getting your degree and then pay it back according to the terms you agreed to.

Pick one.

If the option to wipe the debt free after paying on it for 15 years was a part of the original agreement the interest rate would be much higher due to the increased risk. You'd be paying a greater monthly amount for those 15 years.

People that are protesting not being able to find a job have no one to blame but themselves. People think just because you graduate college you are somehow entitled to a job and if you aren't hired its has to be the corporations fault. You are definitely lazy if you don't have a job. There are jobs out there you can take in the interim until you find a "real job" but people are too good for that because they have a college degree. Get a job like the rest of us and quit protesting other peoples success. They deserve it because they worked hard for it, period.

Con_Alma;953124 wrote:I think it's awful.

Here's the choices.

Work and pay as you go.

Take a loan to cover the costs of getting your degree and then pay it back according to the terms you agreed to.

Pick one.

If the option to wipe the debt free after paying on it for 15 years was a part of the original agreement the interest rate would be much higher due to the increased risk. You'd be paying a greater monthly amount for those 15 years.

I believe it was part of the original agreement when I've made my loans. Of course I'm still in school so anything implemented in the last couple of years affects me.

Sleeper, the question is not whether to get a job at all. It's how we should best make it so that as few people have to settle for a "not real" job as possible. Of course if you just graduated and can't find a "real job" you should get at least a job in some capacity or find some means of generating income. But that's not really a solution to our problems. It's like putting a band aid on a cut that requires stitches. It might make it look a little bit better but it isn't going to really fix the problem.

What is a not real job?

pmoney25;953251 wrote:What is a not real job?

A job one feels is beneath them.

pmoney25;953251 wrote:What is a not real job?

General menial jobs that are entry level/low paying and probably aren't in your chosen career field. Jobs that you can get in high school, etc.

See also: All the jobs I have.

I Wear Pants;953238 wrote:Sleeper, the question is not whether to get a job at all. It's how we should best make it so that as few people have to settle for a "not real" job as possible. Of course if you just graduated and can't find a "real job" you should get at least a job in some capacity or find some means of generating income. But that's not really a solution to our problems. It's like putting a band aid on a cut that requires stitches. It might make it look a little bit better but it isn't going to really fix the problem.

How about using your skills to create your own job. Be flexible to move to good job markets within the country.