Cavaliers at Grizzlies 12/8

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SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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7,977 posts
Dec 9, 2009 11:59 AM
JakeGiant wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: And another thing that is funny about talking shit on LeBron after this game:

Kobe has only had 1 game in his career with 40+, 12+ and 6+. LeBron's done it 3 times in 492 games. Kobe's played 967 games BTW.

The stat that matters; who won the game last night?

Yes, nice numbers, but I've noticed the last few years when accomplishing some of those numbers in losses to underdogs, he's chucked too many 3-pointers, and had too many turnovers. That's what basically killed his MVP chances 2 years ago. Memo to Dancing Queen; be a LEADER and get your teammates INVOLVED.
Yeah, you clearly didn't watch the game either you jackass. He had as many turnovers as he did against Milwaukee. They won that game. LOL @ a Kobe fan trying to tell LeBron to be a leader and get his teammates involved...I was going to say more, but after reading that out loud there is no need.
Dec 9, 2009 11:59am
krazie45's avatar

krazie45

Senior Member

1,055 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:08 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
LTrain23 wrote:
newarkcatholicfan wrote: Kobe does have only one game with those stats but he has how many more rings than KING NO TITLE?
Sigh...

Kobe has NEVER won a ring as THE only guy... If he had, then this would be a fair point...

LeBron has NEVER had a team like those early Laker squads with a young Shaq and all those solid role players. Nor has he had a team where a Lamar Odom was the 3rd or 4th option.

It's easy to bandwagon teams, but I've been a Cavs fan since I've known about basketball. I was growing up during the Price, Harper, and Daugherty years...

It's so easy for you guys to just troll nonsense instead of actually having intelligent basketball discussions, and I don't really understand it. Why do you guys even visit this message board if you don't want to bring anything but pointless banter to the table?
Hold the phone. Outside of 2000 when the Lakers won 67 games(and still nearly lost to Sactown and Portland in the Playoffs en route to Kobe and Shaq's 1st Title), those Laker teams were 56-57 win squads. Last year's Cleveland team won 66. And, I keep hearing Cleveland is built for the Playoffs. So which is it? Or is it simply to fit your point?
IMO it's more than the talent differential. Kobe has had the luxury of having Phil Jackson as his coach....only arguably the greatest head basketball coach of all-time. His triangle offense is perfectly suited to make the best use of his already talented personnel. LeBron has had Mike Brown as his coach, who despite being an above average defensive gameplanner, is completely inept on the offensive end. I mean the Cavs have no set plays yet LeBron is still able to put up the numbers he does (most notably the assists). IMO if you switched Kobe and Lebron (so from 2003 on), LeBron has 3-4 titles and Kobe's Cavs probably don't get higher than the 5 or 6 seed any given year.
Dec 9, 2009 12:08pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:10 PM
The man has a point.

LeBron is like Troy Smith--just a bad ass.
Kobe is like Graham Harrell--he's a system guy.
Dec 9, 2009 12:10pm
J

JakeGiant

Senior Member

355 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:23 PM
I don't recall Coach Jackson being there for all of Kobe's years as a Laker, nor do I recall Jackson being the USA Coach when Kobe put USA on his back when the others were dropping deuces. Some system guy!

After watching Friday Night and Last Night in exact scenarios, I think we know who the badass is.
Dec 9, 2009 12:23pm
jpake1's avatar

jpake1

Senior Member

2,389 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:25 PM
Truth is... Kobe and LeBron are both a bit overrated...
Dec 9, 2009 12:25pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:26 PM
JakeGiant wrote: I don't recall Coach Jackson being there for all of Kobe's years as a Laker, nor do I recall Jackson being the USA Coach when Kobe put USA on his back when the others were dropping deuces. Some system guy!

After watching Friday Night and Last Night in exact scenarios, I think we know who the badass is.
LOL, keep flappin' your gums! It's more entertaining to wait for the next stupid thing you're going to say than it is to actually watch the games!
Dec 9, 2009 12:26pm
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jpake1

Senior Member

2,389 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:26 PM
Kobe more than anything. Always needs a big man to come along and give him that push. If he never had Shaq and Gasol.. his career would be like Michael Redd's!
Dec 9, 2009 12:26pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:27 PM
jpake1 wrote: Kobe more than anything. Always needs a big man to come along and give him that push. If he never had Shaq and Gasol.. his career would be like Michael Redd's!
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. But it's hard not to agree with that.
Dec 9, 2009 12:27pm
J

JakeGiant

Senior Member

355 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:32 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote:
JakeGiant wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: And another thing that is funny about talking shit on LeBron after this game:

Kobe has only had 1 game in his career with 40+, 12+ and 6+. LeBron's done it 3 times in 492 games. Kobe's played 967 games BTW.

The stat that matters; who won the game last night?

Yes, nice numbers, but I've noticed the last few years when accomplishing some of those numbers in losses to underdogs, he's chucked too many 3-pointers, and had too many turnovers. That's what basically killed his MVP chances 2 years ago. Memo to Dancing Queen; be a LEADER and get your teammates INVOLVED.
Yeah, you clearly didn't watch the game either you jackass. He had as many turnovers as he did against Milwaukee. They won that game. LOL @ a Kobe fan trying to tell LeBron to be a leader and get his teammates involved...I was going to say more, but after reading that out loud there is no need.

He did have as many turnovers, but notice he didn't chuck too many 3s...in fact, he didn't make an attempt.

And to be honest, I'm more a Laker fan than Kobe fan.
Dec 9, 2009 12:32pm
J

JakeGiant

Senior Member

355 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:35 PM
jpake1 wrote: Kobe more than anything. Always needs a big man to come along and give him that push. If he never had Shaq and Gasol.. his career would be like Michael Redd's!
I guess this is Plan B after all the Kobe can't win a Title w/o Shaq nonsense. :rolleyes:
Dec 9, 2009 12:35pm
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SQ_Crazies

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7,977 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:36 PM
He didn't have to. His teammates were making shots.

Come out last night and they weren't--they needed him to step his game up, he did. He gave the ball up a few times in the last minute, including the one to Shaq which he had to clean up anyways.

I already told you why we lost the game, it's funny that you come in to talk about a game you didn't watch and start shit talking LeBron when he went for over 40 and had ANOTHER double-double. And you say he should get his teammates involved more--all that about a guy who has a shit roster compared to Kobe, who's 6 assists last night is a GOOD night for Kobe and a guy who talks fewer shots than Kobe. I can see your point--GET YOUR TEAMMATES INVOLVED LEBRON!
Dec 9, 2009 12:36pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:37 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
jpake1 wrote: Kobe more than anything. Always needs a big man to come along and give him that push. If he never had Shaq and Gasol.. his career would be like Michael Redd's!
I guess this is Plan B after all the Kobe can't win a Title w/o Shaq nonsense. :rolleyes:
Yeah...well you can't deny the fact that he couldn't do shit until they brought in another dominant big man.
Dec 9, 2009 12:37pm
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krazie45

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1,055 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:43 PM
JakeGiant wrote: I don't recall Coach Jackson being there for all of Kobe's years as a Laker, nor do I recall Jackson being the USA Coach when Kobe put USA on his back when the others were dropping deuces. Some system guy!

After watching Friday Night and Last Night in exact scenarios, I think we know who the badass is.
How many championships did Kobe win without Phil Jackson? How far did Kobe go in the playoffs without Phil Jackson as coach? Put team USA on his back? Yea ok....that was a team effort the whole way. Not to mention Coach K was the coach, another all time great.

So you're basing two careers off of two shots? If that's the case I'll argue that LeBron's shot in game 2 against the Magic last year was

1. More impressive
2. More clutch
3. Came on a bigger stage

As your boy Chick Hearn would say, this debate's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jell-O's jigglin
Dec 9, 2009 12:43pm
J

JakeGiant

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355 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:43 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote: He didn't have to. His teammates were making shots.

Come out last night and they weren't--they needed him to step his game up, he did. He gave the ball up a few times in the last minute, including the one to Shaq which he had to clean up anyways.

I already told you why we lost the game, it's funny that you come in to talk about a game you didn't watch and start shit talking LeBron when he went for over 40 and had ANOTHER double-double. And you say he should get his teammates involved more--all that about a guy who has a shit roster compared to Kobe, who's 6 assists last night is a GOOD night for Kobe and a guy who talks fewer shots than Kobe. I can see your point--GET YOUR TEAMMATES INVOLVED LEBRON!
Because they were involved, and the offense flowed. Chucking up too many 3s is going to lend the Cavs to stand around. There is absolutely no reason, NONE, to be shooting 11 3s in a game. I'm sorry. Hence, my comment(s). That's why Kobe won't give up the best player title anytime soon; his Basketball IQ is simply greater than the Dancing Queen's.
Dec 9, 2009 12:43pm
J

JakeGiant

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355 posts
Dec 9, 2009 12:47 PM
Krazie, could the same argument be held for Shaq in terms of how he won his Titles?

Okay, I'll cave; LBJ's shot against Orlando was more impressive. That game-winner garnered 2 wins in the Series. Had that shot clanked, it's easily an Orlando sweep.
Dec 9, 2009 12:47pm
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krazie45

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Dec 9, 2009 12:49 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: He didn't have to. His teammates were making shots.

Come out last night and they weren't--they needed him to step his game up, he did. He gave the ball up a few times in the last minute, including the one to Shaq which he had to clean up anyways.

I already told you why we lost the game, it's funny that you come in to talk about a game you didn't watch and start shit talking LeBron when he went for over 40 and had ANOTHER double-double. And you say he should get his teammates involved more--all that about a guy who has a shit roster compared to Kobe, who's 6 assists last night is a GOOD night for Kobe and a guy who talks fewer shots than Kobe. I can see your point--GET YOUR TEAMMATES INVOLVED LEBRON!

If by basketball IQ you mean executes what Phil Jackson tells him to do, then yes it is higher. LeBron can make any shot Kobe can, make passes Kobe can't, is more athletic, is stronger, is a better finisher at the rim, and is a better rebounder. The part of Kobe's game that's stronger IMO is his post game which he didn't develop until the past few years...LeBron will eventually develop one later in his career once his athleticism slows down some.
Because they were involved, and the offense flowed. Chucking up too many 3s is going to lend the Cavs to stand around. There is absolutely no reason, NONE, to be shooting 11 3s in a game. I'm sorry. Hence, my comment(s). That's why Kobe won't give up the best player title anytime soon; his Basketball IQ is simply greater than the Dancing Queen's.
Dec 9, 2009 12:49pm
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SQ_Crazies

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Dec 9, 2009 12:50 PM
LOL! His basketball IQ is higher?! WOW!!!

And guess what, Kobe has attempted 11 or more 3's in a game 31 times.
Dec 9, 2009 12:50pm
krazie45's avatar

krazie45

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Dec 9, 2009 12:51 PM
JakeGiant wrote: Krazie, could the same argument be held for Shaq in terms of how he won his Titles?

Okay, I'll cave; LBJ's shot against Orlando was more impressive. That game-winner garnered 2 wins in the Series. Had that shot clanked, it's easily an Orlando sweep.
You could say that. Shaq couldn't win without D-Wade or Kobe, and had Phil and Pat Riley as coaches. The fact is that ONE player in the past 20 years did it alone....Hakeem during a time when Jordan was gone.....other than that, EVERY NBA Champ has had at least 2 bona-fide players on the roster.
Dec 9, 2009 12:51pm
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JakeGiant

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355 posts
Dec 9, 2009 1:02 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote: LOL! His basketball IQ is higher?! WOW!!!

And guess what, Kobe has attempted 11 or more 3's in a game 31 times.

Not recently, when it's just not warranted. One has to remember Kobe was about the only option in 05, 06, 07, and the 1st half of 08. Plus, the Dancing Queen's strength(besides dancing...duh!) is driving. He's doing teams favors by chucking up 3s.
Dec 9, 2009 1:02pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Dec 9, 2009 1:15 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
SQ_Crazies wrote: LOL! His basketball IQ is higher?! WOW!!!

And guess what, Kobe has attempted 11 or more 3's in a game 31 times.

Not recently, when it's just not warranted. One has to remember Kobe was about the only option in 05, 06, 07, and the 1st half of 08. Plus, the Dancing Queen's strength(besides dancing...duh!) is driving. He's doing teams favors by chucking up 3s.
Ok. Funny, the most recent one I found was from a 2008 game against the GRIZZLIES! Where Kobe jacked up 17 threes, scored 53 points and had ONE assist--oh yeah, in a LOSS to the Grizz.

You have to remember, that LeBron has been the only option since his rookie year--other than last year when we had Mo. We know what happened to Mo in the playoffs--it happened to him all year in the regular season too. He'd have some bad games. Guess what, when it wasn't warranted, LeBron didn't attempt a three the other night--because other guys were making shots. But last night he had to.

And oh, by the way, he's STILL shooting a higher percentage from three than Kobe this season.
Dec 9, 2009 1:15pm
Trueblue23's avatar

Trueblue23

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Dec 9, 2009 2:25 PM
I didn't get a chance to watch the game last night, so I don't have much to say about it. Judging from the box score, it looks like LeBron had a great 3 quarters but struggled in the 4th and OT.
Dec 9, 2009 2:25pm
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SQ_Crazies

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Dec 9, 2009 2:35 PM
LeBron had 16 in the 4th quarter and OT. He scored the Cavs last 13 points.
Dec 9, 2009 2:35pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

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Dec 9, 2009 2:39 PM
Like I said a long time ago--the loss had very little to do with LeBron. It had more to do with BAD defense in the 2nd half and guys getting lazy and out of rhythm. And it had something to do with the Grizz. Give them credit, these guys are all professionals and they have some real scorers--just one of those games the Cavs let slip away, doesn't mean a whole lot. You won't see me screaming like a wild idiot on Laker threads when they inevitably drop a game they shouldn't. But when the Cavs lose LeBron's basketball IQ is questioned LOL. I question whether JakeGiant has any at all.
Dec 9, 2009 2:39pm
Trueblue23's avatar

Trueblue23

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Dec 9, 2009 2:40 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote: LeBron had 16 in the 4th quarter and OT. He scored the Cavs last 13 points.
He scored but was only 5/13 from the field including 1/5 from 3, including missing the game winner.

Props to the Grizz though. They are one of those teams that have a ton of talent but can't ever really put it together. Good win for a small market team on their home court.
Dec 9, 2009 2:40pm
Trueblue23's avatar

Trueblue23

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Dec 9, 2009 2:44 PM
Did Hickson get injured or something?? Only played 22 minutes, kind of odd..

Parker and Hickson combined for 4 points on 2/7 shooting.. not gonna get it done.

Ferry needs to get James some help.
Dec 9, 2009 2:44pm