How can you say he isn't a good coach?

Turned the Jets around pretty quickly, they were considered one of the best in the league until their "epic fallout" which was due to an injury no one knew about. Then he comes to the Browns and they suck so let him go after a year? He has one of the worst rosters I've ever seen in the NFL--you're lucky he won you a game. But that's fine, if you want to continue being a laughing stock a good way to do it is to keep cycling coaches.

He has made a bad roster even worse. Someone needs to tell him he is in Cleveland now, and not New York.

This is going to be unpopular, but Mangini needs to stay another season...but only if a big name GM/President is brought in to check his power and help with the draft. I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was fired, but I think he should get a second season.

I agree in that Mangini should be back.

mangini is too much an egomaniac to let others help run the ship. He's lost the respect of the team (starting with jamal Lewis--the captain). get a president/GM who can help with the draft and run the team. (mangini has shown that he isn't the best evaluation of talent. Plus his management of the the QB position left quite a bit to be desired---pulling Quinn after 2 games and watching DA self destruct for half the season. Kinda looks now like sticking with Quinn for the whole year woulda been a good decision). Hire a decent coach. keep the def coordinator, hire Charlie as the O.C., keep that combination in place at least 3-4 years, THEN we'll get someplace.

Oh no, he lost Jamal Lewis's respect?! BE GLAD HE'S RETIRING! Who gives a damn about Jamal Lewis, he was awful for the Browns anyways and it's hilarious that he was even a captain--I guess he earned that C when he ran all over the Browns in a purple jersey.

LOL and I love the argument of how he handled the QB...he basically just listened to the fans! Bitch and moan all you want since none of the pressure is on you but he did exactly what everyone wanted him to do at the time. It wouldn't have mattered anyways.

Stupid to let Mangini go, like I said he has maybe the worst roster I've ever seen yet you all expect him to win with it--get real.

Give him another year. Bring Weis along, and see if that can get Brady and the offense going in the right direction.

Somebody told me I was in a fantasy world for talking about Weis and Parcells in Cleveland next year.

Hopefully they are keeping their mouth shut, now.

SQ_Crazies wrote: How can you say he isn't a good coach?

Where should I begin?

1. He's disliked by pretty much everyone associated with the Browns not named Lerner. The fans hate him, the players don't like playing for him, and he threw his "friend" under the bus forcing him out of the GM role.

2. He made his puppet Kokinis trade down from the #5 pick all the way down to the 20's to get a center (which he could've gotten in the next round), got a bunch of average to below-average Jets players that bring nothing to the team but kissing his ass for said pick. Drafted WR's who aren't playmakers back to back.

3. Handled the QB situation worse than anyone could've ever imagined. Waited till the week of the 1st game to pick a starter (didn't even tell the players who was starting), therefore to the surprise of no one, Quinn struggles the first 2 1/2 games against 3 top defenses....Mangini panics and puts in Anderson who proceeds to have statistically one of the worst stretches of quarterback play in the history of organized football. Reverts back to Quinn, who has been moderately decent. Possibly has destroyed the careers of both players.

4. Continues to misuse Josh Cribbs in the offense by trying to make him a wide receiver.

5. Traded away the best wide receiver on the team for a 3rd WR at best and a special teamer.

6. Hired the single worst offensive coordinator in NFL history. Daboll was a freaking QB coach for the Jets, then implements an offense that makes Jim Tressel's look innovative.

7. Tries to convey this image of being a no-nonsense disciplinarian by fining people for taking water and holding after practice padless drills that injure players. Team proceeds to commit multiple mental mistakes that these strategies are aimed to avoid.

8. Has successfully been so unlikeable to players that agents are actually advising players to stay away from Cleveland.

9. Is an incredible egomaniac that sticks to his way no matter if the result is good or bad. As long as it's done Mangini's way, wins and losses are irrelevant.


That's just off the top of my head, I can go on if necessary...

i second all fo this^^^. I personally never thought Quinn should have been benched. True, he wasn't doing great, but we knew what we had in DA--had seen that song before. can't speak for the rest of the fans; i realize there was division among them from the start, but the majority from what i remember never thought mangenius' dealing with the QBs was great.
as for his roster, he's DIRECTLY responsible for over a third of it; can't say his additions have done much.

krazie45 wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: How can you say he isn't a good coach?

Where should I begin?

1. He's disliked by pretty much everyone associated with the Browns not named Lerner. The fans hate him, the players don't like playing for him, and he threw his "friend" under the bus forcing him out of the GM role.

2. He made his puppet Kokinis trade down from the #5 pick all the way down to the 20's to get a center (which he could've gotten in the next round), got a bunch of average to below-average Jets players that bring nothing to the team but kissing his ass for said pick. Drafted WR's who aren't playmakers back to back.

3. Handled the QB situation worse than anyone could've ever imagined. Waited till the week of the 1st game to pick a starter (didn't even tell the players who was starting), therefore to the surprise of no one, Quinn struggles the first 2 1/2 games against 3 top defenses....Mangini panics and puts in Anderson who proceeds to have statistically one of the worst stretches of quarterback play in the history of organized football. Reverts back to Quinn, who has been moderately decent. Possibly has destroyed the careers of both players.

4. Continues to misuse Josh Cribbs in the offense by trying to make him a wide receiver.

5. Traded away the best wide receiver on the team for a 3rd WR at best and a special teamer.

6. Hired the single worst offensive coordinator in NFL history. Daboll was a freaking QB coach for the Jets, then implements an offense that makes Jim Tressel's look innovative.

7. Tries to convey this image of being a no-nonsense disciplinarian by fining people for taking water and holding after practice padless drills that injure players. Team proceeds to commit multiple mental mistakes that these strategies are aimed to avoid.

8. Has successfully been so unlikeable to players that agents are actually advising players to stay away from Cleveland.

9. Is an incredible egomaniac that sticks to his way no matter if the result is good or bad. As long as it's done Mangini's way, wins and losses are irrelevant.


That's just off the top of my head, I can go on if necessary...

Wow. Alright, here we go:

1. He's disliked because they aren't winning. They weren't going to win with God himself coaching them this year, they have a PATHETIC roster. And who gives a damn what the fans think, this organization has reacted to the fans long enough--and no offense to anyone personally but Browns fans are some of the dumbest I've ever come across.

2. Everyone liked the Alex Mack pick when it happend. Everyone loved the Robiskie pick because he was a Buckeye. Hindsight is 20/20, but you all loved the moves when they happened.

3. Fans want Quinn: they get Quinn. Quinn sucks, they switch to a guy that went to the Pro Bowl. He sucks, they go back to Quinn. Who still sucks. Moral of the story: they both suck and their receivers are worse. What do you want him to do?

4. How else should they use Cribbs? He's a QB. He isn't going to play there. He's not a running back, period. He's a WR with no hands. The guy is one of the best special teamers maybe in the history of the league. He isn't an offensive player.

5. This one really gets me. Browns fans waved goodbye to him with a smile on their faces!

6. Hard to be innovative against NFL defenses when your offense is the worst I've ever seen in the NFL. What the hell is he supposed to do? Honestly, what? You need to quit overrating your players--Browns fans are starting to have a history of this.

7. So it's on the coach when a player does something stupid on the field? They're PROFESSIONALS. Stop giving them so much credit and treating them like children. They suck, bottom line.

8. Agents are probably advising coaches to stay away from Cleveland too because I wouldn't want anything to do with fans as stupid as the ones he's dealing with.

9. Maybe if they followed his way, which you've already said they don't (mental mistakes because they aren't learning the lessons he's trying to teach), then they would win.

Bottom line is, he's a lot different than Romeo and that is what everyone wanted. The organization has made knee jerk reactions based on fan opinions way too much recently. The team sucks balls. He's a pretty good coach--they need to weed out the players that don't believe in their coach and would rather bitch about having to work a little harder. Sorry, when you've won ONE game I think you should be working a little harder. Half the players are acting like babies. He's got the defense going in a good direction, now get him and Ryan some players and they might have something special. He certainly needs a new OC. They should hire Weis by all means necessary (but I'll promise you one thing--Weis won't make Brady Quinn be able to throw down field). As a head coach, he's hardly had a chance. But he's proven that he can turn a team around quickly. They have 11 draft picks, they him bring in 11 rookies that know ONLY Mangini's way and build on that. But if you want to change coaches AGAIN after this season because you're upset they've only won a single game (not sure what the fuck you honestly expected) then that's fine--you'll just continue to be the laughing stock of the league. What are you going to do when they bring in a new coach, the whole culture changes and they still lose like it's going out of style next year? Fire that coach too? Who the fuck is going to want to coach in Cleveland? You're LUCKY to have Mangini.

And wow I like the new site look, it happened while I was typing that LOL.

How can you not blame the offensive coordinator for the offense? I know there isn't a whole lot of talent on that side of the ball, but as historically bad as the offense was at the end of last year, it is even worse this year. Daboll isn't the only reason the offense stinks, but he is a big reason why and since he is in charge, he needs to go, along with Mangini, who brought him to Cleveland.

My roommates are both Browns fan and neither is happy about this news.

I on the other hand think it would be a good hire

If Mangini wants Weis as his OC, then yes. Hire him. I think Dabol is out of his league (and it has shown on the field). However, the head coach has to make the call.

Yes, Mangini should be back. To keep changing coaches because the fans get ticked off when the dead wood is cleaned out is stupid. It will only renew the cycle.

Now, I will make ONE exception to Mangini coming back, and that is if the new president or czar insists on bringing in his own coach, along with a GM. If that's the case, so be it. I want continuity, a plan and a philosophy that comes from the top down. The Browns haven't had that since they returned.

As for getting rid of Winslow and Edwards: both were good moves and necessary. There was no way the Browns should have paid Winslow the outrageous salary he was demanding, plus he was disruptive in the lockerroom.

Edwards was simply not as good on the field as he is in his own mind. He's NEVER going to be an elite receiver because he's too focused on other things and doesn't maintain the focus he needs on the field. Thus the stupid drops he's had since he was at UM. Finally, he also wants a big payday and he isn't worthy of it.

Mangini has done what Pioli said needed to be done but nobody wanted to hear. In the process, he did bring in serviceable folks to fill the gaps until (1) cap space could be created (Cleveland was on the brink of cap hell) and (2) the right talent could be brought in via free agency and the draft.

We're one-third (the most difficult third) through the process in jettisoning players who aren't the talent needed and/or too expensive and not worth the cap hit. The remaining two thirds will be much more enjoyable assuming the right football minds are brought in to run the show and be GM.

As for the hatred Mangini gets -- most of it seems to be coming from media that intensely dislike him and find every chance to try and smear him.

If the players all hated him the way the media keeps telling us, this team would have quit on the field long ago. They haven't. To me that's proof he's doing a decent job despite two critical errors this season (1) hiring Dabol and (2) switching QBs. I'm not even certain the QB switch was as bad now, since it may be that Quinn needed a respite to go back and watch what he'd done, and to see from the sideline what the game is like after starting more than one game.

Bottom line for me is this: Lerner has to get this next hire right or the whole thing goes down the crapper again. If whoever ends up in charge is as bad as the past four (?) regimes, then it will all come crumbling down once more.

The only positive for me will be that I'll simply stop watching the NFL once and for all. When the product stays that bad, that long I'm not going to waste my time, anymore, even with the very strong ties I have emotionally to this team (the name, not the franchise, since it is no longer in Cleveland).

I absolutely agree with everything you write...except for the last part of the last sentence. The only thing Modell took was his dead ass out of town.

I would love to see him here as he is a proven winner at the coordinator position and that is what he will be in Cleveland.

football71 wrote: I absolutely agree with everything you write...except for the last part of the last sentence. The only thing Modell took was his dead ass out of town.

I wrote what I did because this version of the Browns in no way, shape, manner or form resembles the franchise I grew up with; the franchise I lived and died emotionally with for many years.

When I began following the Browns, they had had ONE losing season in their history.

One.

Then Modell bought the team, fired Paul Brown and it's been a steady downhill descent ever since -- even carrying over to this incarnation.

No, I don't believe the Browns reside in Baltimore -- but the franchise I loved as a kid doesn't reside in Cleveland, anymore, either.

Whether you agree or not, it's how I feel. And I am not alone.

Mangini needs to go. Serviceable players aren't good enough when you have a top 5 pick. None of the players he has brought in could play for most of the teams in the league, let alone start like some do for the Browns. If Cleveland needs to rebuild through the draft and free agency, I don't have faith that he will make the right decisions. He hasn't thus far, and I see no signs of him being able to do it. About the only thing I don't blame him for is the Dante Stallworth situation. Stallworth needs to be somewhere else next season. He was another bust.

It is impossible to judge most of the trades yet because we haven't used the draft picks. I don't think we can judge Mack yet either. The Edwards trade was a good trade. In 8 games with the Jets, he only has 23 catches, 366 yards, and 3 TD's. He would have left as a free agent at the end of the season anyway.

Alex Mack is not bad, but with all of the problems the team had last season, Mangini used what was at one point a top 5 pick on a center! Hank Fraley has been a reliable player in his time with the Browns. The team had a lot more holes and needs to fill than at center. Mack hasn't played bad this season, but Cleveland could have gotten him or another solid center later in the draft.
He is following what the Jets did a couple of years ago by drafting D'Brickashaw Ferguson at tackle (Joe Thomas) and Mangold at center (Mack).
As far as Braylon goes, the Jets primarily run the ball on offense, and they have a rookie QB running the show. Edwards can put up big numbers if he plays on a team that likes to open things up a bit instead of playing conservative. Ryan wants his defense to win games, and his offense not to lose games.
I do agree Braylon and K2 would have left at the end of the season, but I just don't trust Mangini to do the right thing with the draft picks received in the trades.

Agree with most that he'd be good as an offensive coordinator but not as a head coach.

Cha'DIch wrote: Alex Mack is not bad, but with all of the problems the team had last season, Mangini used what was at one point a top 5 pick on a center! Hank Fraley has been a reliable player in his time with the Browns. The team had a lot more holes and needs to fill than at center. Mack hasn't played bad this season, but Cleveland could have gotten him or another solid center later in the draft.
He is following what the Jets did a couple of years ago by drafting D'Brickashaw Ferguson at tackle (Joe Thomas) and Mangold at center (Mack).
As far as Braylon goes, the Jets primarily run the ball on offense, and they have a rookie QB running the show. Edwards can put up big numbers if he plays on a team that likes to open things up a bit instead of playing conservative. Ryan wants his defense to win games, and his offense not to lose games.
I do agree Braylon and K2 would have left at the end of the season, but I just don't trust Mangini to do the right thing with the draft picks received in the trades.

Braylon has had a ton of drops with the Jets. Did you see the one that bounced off of his facemask againt the Bills? He has the ability to make unbelievable plays, but he doesn't make the easy ones. He is a cancer in a locker room. They needed to get rid of him.

Braylon simply isn't as good on the football field as he is in his mind. The gap is Grand Canyon-esque.

Mack was an excellent choice for two reasons: it stabilizes the most important (in my view) area of a football team, its line, for the next 10 years AND it allowed the Browns to trade down, get a very good football player, and not strap the team with a huge contract for an unproven rookie.

It's all about risk-reward and allowing the team to shed unnecessary dollars so it can begin the process of rebuilding via free agency (even in a potentially uncapped year there is still a limit to how much you want to spend, plus the cap will likely come back) followed by the draft.

Cleveland will be in a much better position to take on a large contract for a top pick now, should they decide to keep this pick instead of trading down again.

If Suh is available, I kind of hope another team falls in love with him and offers Cleveland 3 or 4 first day picks in exchange; this team needs as many higher picks as it can get to fill all the holes.

I'd welcome Charlie to Cleveland with a cheeseburger and a diet coke.