riders1;814430 wrote:CC for Bryson, Jackson, LaPorta, and Brantley seemed like the future for Milwaukee, but look at that deal now and by the way Milwaukee is also in 1st place now so that deal did not hurt them at all. Most fans overvalue their prospects but how many turn into great major league talent, it now looks like 3 stiffs and an okay outfielder in that trade, would you rather have CC or those 4 now?

Although CC went 11-2 for the Brewers they lost in the LDCS 3-1 to the Phillies.

But the BrewCrew also had/has Braun and Fielder who were studs and Gallardo who was a very solid pitcher. Near ACE status. He was going to return from injury to replace CC when he didnt sign. Not to mention Rickie Weeks who was/is very good when healthy. Id be willing to do that trade in reverse in a second...but we dont have the OTHER pieces to contend. The Brewers also had to go out and trade for Greinke to contend in the central this year.

Just look at Detroit's middle of the line up Cabrera 330, Martinez 333, Peralta 308, Boesch 299, while the Indians Have Brantley 280 and A.Cabrera 290 and O.Cabrera next at 239, nothing in the lineup to strike fear into any pitchers.( maybe add to their so totals) Even Kansas City has 7 of the starting 9 today over 250.
Has there been an improvement with the batting coach switch? Is it my imagination or does every team take so many called 3rd strikes? With 2 strikes you have to protect the plate.

riders1;814449 wrote:Just look at Detroit's middle of the line up Cabrera 330, Martinez 333, Peralta 308, Boesch 299, while the Indians Have Brantley 280 and A.Cabrera 290 and O.Cabrera next at 239, nothing in the lineup to strike fear into any pitchers.( maybe add to their so totals) Even Kansas City has 7 of the starting 9 today over 250.
Has there been an improvement with the batting coach switch? Is it my imagination or does every team take so many called 3rd strikes? With 2 strikes you have to protect the plate.

How about do us all a favor STFU and post in your own team's thread.... Your shit is starting to get old. You do nothing but troll the Indians.

riders1;814449 wrote:Just look at Detroit's middle of the line up Cabrera 330, Martinez 333, Peralta 308, Boesch 299, while the Indians Have Brantley 280 and A.Cabrera 290 and O.Cabrera next at 239, nothing in the lineup to strike fear into any pitchers.( maybe add to their so totals) Even Kansas City has 7 of the starting 9 today over 250.
Has there been an improvement with the batting coach switch? Is it my imagination or does every team take so many called 3rd strikes? With 2 strikes you have to protect the plate.

sigh...we already talked about this. We know you hate the indians and all, but you are going to have trouble finding people to argue with you about how bad they are. We are not delusional.

^^^all good points....but we arei n first place even without hitters. Its stands to reason that this team has something.....and it stands to reason that this team could only get better if it adds some hitting. I'm sure Tiger fans would just love to have the Tribe stand pat. While I understand that one doesn't want to trade its future on a hopeless cause, you can't count on the future to necessarily fall into place. Just look at the Twinkies this year.

HitsRus;814599 wrote:^^^all good points....but we arei n first place even without hitters. Its stands to reason that this team has something.....and it stands to reason that this team could only get better if it adds some hitting. I'm sure Tiger fans would just love to have the Tribe stand pat. While I understand that one doesn't want to trade its future on a hopeless cause, you can't count on the future to necessarily fall into place. Just look at the Twinkies this year.

You make all good points as well. I guess I just see this team as MUCH closer to what they are the last 30 than to the first 40 games. I dont judge them on either, because a team is never as good as its best or as bad as its worse. But Im inclined to think they are much closer to the worst. We have the bull-pen, and we have the 2-5 starters. We dont have the ACE (Verlander). Our offense isnt just scuffling...we literally have 3 guys who can hit. Only 1 hits for power, and who knows which play ends his season. Choo is out. I just dont think 1 move will help them. We could have an All-Star Power 3B hitting 3rd or 4th, and I still dont think we would be much better. We would need to make 3 or 4 moves to contend, imo.

I realize we are CURRENTLY contending. But in 2 weeks will we still? Id think we will be about 3-5 out in 2 weeks, I guess in theory its still contending. But when you consider it would equate to losing about 15 games on the Tigers/Sox how much in contention are you really??? Thats where they have to make their decision. When/if they right this ship and start playing like themselves, are they going to be as good as the Tigers. If not, then you cant make a move. Frankly, the Tigers are just a very good offensive team and have decent enough pitching to get it done. It doesnt help that they will likely win 28-30 of Verlanders 34 starts this year lol.

This team is a third or fourth place divisional team.

^^^well it is now with injuries all over the place.

Laley23;814616 wrote:You make all good points as well. I guess I just see this team as MUCH closer to what they are the last 30 than to the first 40 games. I dont judge them on either, because a team is never as good as its best or as bad as its worse. But Im inclined to think they are much closer to the worst. We have the bull-pen, and we have the 2-5 starters. We dont have the ACE (Verlander). Our offense isnt just scuffling...we literally have 3 guys who can hit. Only 1 hits for power, and who knows which play ends his season. Choo is out. I just dont think 1 move will help them. We could have an All-Star Power 3B hitting 3rd or 4th, and I still dont think we would be much better. We would need to make 3 or 4 moves to contend, imo.

I realize we are CURRENTLY contending. But in 2 weeks will we still? Id think we will be about 3-5 out in 2 weeks, I guess in theory its still contending. But when you consider it would equate to losing about 15 games on the Tigers/Sox how much in contention are you really??? Thats where they have to make their decision. When/if they right this ship and start playing like themselves, are they going to be as good as the Tigers. If not, then you cant make a move. Frankly, the Tigers are just a very good offensive team and have decent enough pitching to get it done. It doesnt help that they will likely win 28-30 of Verlanders 34 starts this year lol.

I tend to agree that the Indians aren't as good as the Tigers, however I don't think they should just throw in the towel and stand pat. If Victor goes down again, or Miggy is out for a few weeks the Tigers could start to slip again. I would think they could get a guy like Ludwik for some 2nd and 3rd tier prospects. It is time to bring up Chisenhall and let him play. This team needs some spark, and maybe those 2 moves could help, because right now they have 4-5 bats in the lineup that aren't major league talent.

A move for the future also needs to be made. Whether it is this summer or for the start of next year, Chisenhall and Kipnis are going to be w/ the big league club (barring injury or trade). That leaves them w/ Brantley, Choo, Sizemore, Hafner, Chisenhall and Kipnis as LH. Asdrubal, Santana and Phelps as switch hitters. The only potential RH stick is Laporta, and we haven't seen enough from him that says he is going to be anything better than a disappointment. Could they move Sizemore for some prospects (probably 2nd and 3rd tier), then move some of our prospects (probably at least 1 - 1st tier guy along w/ others) for Hunter Pence. The Astros are floundering in the NL central, and Pence would give a solid run producing RH bat in the middle of the lineup. Plus I believe he is under team control for at least 2-3 seasons after this year.

HitsRus;814953 wrote:^^^well it is now with injuries all over the place.

That's what a lack of depth will do to a team.

^^^doesn't mean we should throw in the towel.


Interestngly enough, In the morning paper( Akron Beacon Journal)it was reported that the Tribe will need to seek some help with the Choo injury...and one of the people being discussed is Ryan Ludwick. The Tribe may not have to give up more than a second tier prospect, and would only be on the hook for about half of his $6.7 million salary.

I have never suggested throwing in the towel. It seems people are either overzealous in the potential of this year or all doom and gloom. My posts have been neither.

If you can get Ludwick for a 2nd tier prospect, you have to do it.

Ok, if we are talking only giving up 2nd/3rd tier prospects I am all in. And if we get a guy for 3 years (Pence) I am willing to give up anyone on our ML roster lol. I thought we were talking about the typical rent a player for half a year while crippling the farm. I am NOT down for that. But if they can get some sticks (preferably one who will be with us for 2012 and maybe 2013) without killing our farm team it is well worth it.

Id love to get Ludwick for a 2nd and/or 3rd tier prospect and I would love to try and get a proven pitcher/Hunter Pence for 2-3 years for anyone on the farm.

royal_k;815116 wrote:If you can get Ludwick for a 2nd tier prospect, you have to do it.

That's a move that makes sense no matter how the team is playing.

any team that fills outfield holes with shelly duncan makes me nervous...great job with 4 k's last nite

this team can be easily built around good small ball and a couple gap hitters...i feel like a guy like ludwick would be a solid add...if anything is added id hope its a bat or 2...the pitching is young, but its talented and i think they can get the job done

if not, im still a free agent - ill play for free and will also guarantee my BAA with RISP will be lower than carmona's

I thought we were talking about the typical rent a player for half a year while crippling the farm.

In my original post, I thought that Headley had two more years of arbitration...and that may not be the case.

Just to play devil's advocate...going for broke and trading for a huge name doesn't always work. The Expos tried to go all in and make a playoff run when they traded for Bartolo Colon. That didn't work out for them at all and losing the the guys they lost hurt their minor league system for quite some time. I'm not in favor going all-in unless you've got the talent to back it up and you think you're that piece away from the World Series. Right now I don't think they are. They might compete for the division because of their bullpen and overall weak division but I don't want them trading the farm to try to squeeze a few more wins and maybe make the playoffs.

I dump Sizemore in a heartbeat if they can get anything of value in return. He's due $9 million next year and I don't see the tight ass Dolan's paying him that.

With how much other teams want to seem to butt rape the Tribe and raid our big league talent (Sabathia, Lee, V-Mart, etc) I'd love to see the Tribe raid the financial abortion that is the Los Angeles Dodgers. Unfortunately, I'm sure some of the financial "big boys" (Yanks, BoSox, etc) have already thought of this and likely would outbid Cleveland.

grodt;815940 wrote:Just to play devil's advocate...going for broke and trading for a huge name doesn't always work. The Expos tried to go all in and make a playoff run when they traded for Bartolo Colon. That didn't work out for them at all and losing the the guys they lost hurt their minor league system for quite some time. I'm not in favor going all-in unless you've got the talent to back it up and you think you're that piece away from the World Series. Right now I don't think they are. They might compete for the division because of their bullpen and overall weak division but I don't want them trading the farm to try to squeeze a few more wins and maybe make the playoffs.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending what side of the trade you are on, after that Colon trade teams don't send out 3 of their top prospects to rent a player anymore. If it is a move to get someone like Ludwik, I wouldn't expect any of their top 3 or 4 prospects to be sent to San Diego. If it is for a guy like Pence or anyone else that still has 2-3 years left of team control then the Tribe would have to part with a couple top flight guys.