1_beast;813423 wrote:Norwayne is looking primed for a title run.

Note: They got their school because a guy from Norton named Wayne previously owned the property.....

Red Rum and Miaygi told me the same thing.

Did orrville bump back up to d 2 as well?

nope..Orrville is still D-III by 2-4 boys

Bears are set to start up another streak! Beast what needs to happen at Dalton? more co-op with the football program?

bracketgate;815063 wrote:Bears are set to start up another streak! Beast what needs to happen at Dalton? more co-op with the football program?

Great screenname

i think it can be a challenge at a school that has never had wrestling other than the last few years. There are simply no fathers in the district that used to wrestle like in many schools. Everyone's dad just played football and hoops. I'm not saying that can't be overcome, but it is a hindrance.

Dalton has had wrestling for close to 10 years...
1. need a grassroots youth program
2. Parents/kids interested
3. Staff/parents that support (as well as interested kids)
4. solid coaching (while i love the current coaches...its not "ok" to lose) you have to coach winning.
5. offseason work.

Dalton has had some pretty good kids leave due to undisclosed reason...The Halls, Phillips, Foster(all state placers)...hats off to the Martell's, they stuck around...but i wouldn't of minded seeing them in brown n gold...lol

beast - those things you mentioned would be great, I am just telling you one reason why some of those things are difficult - if kids and their families have no history with a sport, it is not discussed, watched, etc when children are young. That is often what spurs the interest with kids. For example, the parents put a kid in wrestling leagues, camps when they are young. Simply not as many parents will do that if they know nothing about that sport and have no history with it (its also not a sport that is very visible to kids on tv, etc like some others are that may create interest). All the things you mentioned feed off each other - getting that circle started is the hard part. I actually think you could see an uptick in wrestling in a few years when some of those guys that started the wrestling program have children entering school - but that's a ways off yet.

1486wd and beast, interesting input. 1486wd, I believe you are 100% accurate in your assessment that it maybe a lack of culture as there aren't as many wrestling "families" within the Dalton district. Beast, Dalton would really benefit from a grassroots youth program (LOVE our youth program at Smithville, as we are seeing some long-term benefits arise from it, we also like "old" bears that jump the fence too beast . Also, I heard that one of the Martell's was really interested in getting back into the Dalton district but i don't know much outside of that

Nevertheless, the WCAL is the bears to lose, don't sugarcoat it beast you guys are loaded!

Is the older Martell kid still coaching at Fairless?

Dalton is too small of a school. Plain and simple. They don't have the numbers. 60-70 boys in a school. If you look at other schools.... about 10% do nothing so your down to 63 kids. Tradition of the basketball program will take another 15-20 kids. so 43 boys left. Wrestling is "gay" take away another 20 kids. Specialization in sports take away3 or 4 kids and your left with 20 boys.... With the exception of Waynedale/NWern no team in the area usually has 20 boys consistently... so you get to choose from 15 kids and about half of them just do it for something to do which every school has.... so you're looking at a pool of 15 kids or so and most likely wrestling is not a top priority except for 1-2 kids. I don't see it changing anytime soon either until something drastic happens like the school actually supporting the program and trying to promote it... Look at other schools comparable to Dalton's size... Danville= no wrestling.... Hiland= no wrestling ( I KNOW I KNOW THEY WON'T ALLOW IT... but it would never happen anyway) Strasburg = No wrestling. I could go on but I think you get the point.

RINGZ, per his uncle he is an assistant at Dover

Lots of good takes on Dalton wrestling, I think everyone made some valid points. I just hope the Bulldog program can weather the financial storms looming ahead that will affect all schools. When the budget knife comes out---wrestling programs that are struggling usually get stabbed.

On to Smithville---
Bracketgate, How are things looking for 11/12? I recall hearing the Smithies had a full team, but it didn't seem like they did at county. The guys I remember (Morris, Kelbly, the Hiltys & Wiley) --Any of them returning?

Smithville is definately getting better, glad to hear the youth program is strong. Just my opinion, but the next step should be kicking up the schedule a notch.


On the divisional depth thing--
My order is D1, D2 and D3. Not taking anything away from D3, but the depth just isn't there. At the top though, D3 has some grapplers who could win the D1 or 2 title, like the Monroeville 171, Phillips, I think is his name, plus a few others. IMO the big difference is in the guys who don't place at state. Some of the D1 wrestlers who go two and out could place top 8 in D3. Can't really say that for the D3 guys.

bracketgate;816505 wrote:RINGZ, per his uncle he is an assistant at Dover

OK thank you. I knew he started at Fairless and had a successful first year, but the old budget was lurking and he might have had to move on. Glad he landed somewhere.

the other interesting thing is dalton adding wrestling when they never had it before - I can't think of another example of that in recent history

Rittman should be bringing in wrestling soon with the start of youth programs

I think Norwayne can challenge Waynedale for the county title this year. I told one of the Bobcat coaches this last yea and he said they might not have a full lineup. Well with the new weight classes...all of the teams may not. 13 kids is enough to win it. I think Waynedale could do better than top 5 at state. Heck they have 3 potential finalists and a few others who could score. Don't mean to put pressure on you guys beast...well yea I do. The Huskies will have what I will call a young and solid team.

Norwayne look very good at the Ashland Dual Camp they went 8-3 losing by 1,2 and 5 points with a forfit at heavy wt. Grier, Studer and the Moore brother were very impressive. The rest of there kids did very well also but those 4 were very good. They probally wont have enough depth to beat Waynedale but they will have one of the better teams that they have had.

thinking back...I think it may have been 1985 since the last time someone won the WCAL other than Waynedale or Northwestern. In 1985 that team was Hillsdale!!!

This may in fact be the year of the Bobcat as they have a solid group of point scorers!

Smithville won a co title (with Doyelstown and Waynedale) in '71, Hillsdale has won (3) team titles, Doylestown (4), (including their '71 co title), and the rest of the Championships have been split by Waynedale (19) and Northwestern (16).

Im missing some recent History (the last 2 years)..but another tidbit, through 2009...The Largest margin of victory for the title came in 2008, Waynedale with an 89 point margin and the most points scored through 2009 is 230 (2009) Waynedale.

I am associated with the Dalton program and you guys are exactly right about Dalton. I would like to add some more insight if I may.

1. IF the Dalton program lasts. There are kids in the Elementary now that their fathers have wrestled the problem is they will not see high school for at least 6-7 more years.

2. Beast your right losing the Halls and Phillips and Fosters KILLED us. Not just when they left but long after as well. If you look I believe that all of them went back and helped in the room for at least a year. The Halls and Foster I know for sure and I believe Phillips ( Beast correct me if I am wrong) IF those kids stayed all the sudden you have 7 SP's in the room to work with our guys (4 Halls, 2 Fosters, and Phillips) that is a TREMENDOUS supporting cast.

3. We run open mats every year and every year we get 2 maybe 3 kids tops.

4. I agree 100% that we need a youth program...However, I know that we need more help from people. The problem is that NONE of the coaches are teachers and therefore are not always at the school. Everyone of them has a full time job that does not take a back seat to wrestling. Some have families and I believe a couple maybe in College as well as working. Unfortunately from my point of view these guys cant do everything they need help.

However there is always some good in a situation...

1. The Jr high numbers have been up I think we sent them 4-5 kids last year and we are looking at sending another 5-6 this year. Also they are seeing some success with a few tournament champions and a couple county champions. So if all of them stay out we are looking at a good number of underclassmen coming up through the ranks.

2. WE ARE GETTING A ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The new gym is going to have a room on it for us no more moving tables and chairs from the cafeteria.

I am not sure what is going to happen to the program in the next couple of years. I just hope that kids like Drew Everett, Rodney Lehman and Larry Miller will have good seasons and that the younger kids will feed off that, and with the new room hopefully we can slowly turn it around. I just hope they do not close it before we get the chance to see those kids in elementary move up through.

Good post Pin em!!! Good to hear things are looking up for ya!

BearBoy69;812187 wrote:Its still fun. D2 has been generally weaker other than Graham the past few years. The strongest division is d1 obviously then d3 and lastly d2 IMO

OK now seriously. Many individuals at d3 could win in any division. But, you are looking at Waynedale maybe winning D3 states and they lost to Dover last year. They may not get into double digit vs. Claymont and many other d2's. They are god and Beam might be as good as any this year. But just not the same depth as D2, same as other than Graham no D2 has depth of St. Ed's, Wadsworth, or Perry.

Just saying be real

bendem;847744 wrote:OK now seriously. Many individuals at d3 could win in any division. But, you are looking at Waynedale maybe winning D3 states and they lost to Dover last year. They may not get into double digit vs. Claymont and many other d2's. They are god and Beam might be as good as any this year. But just not the same depth as D2, same as other than Graham no D2 has depth of St. Ed's, Wadsworth, or Perry.

Just saying be real

lost to dover with 5 freshman in the lineup and missing 2 state qualifiers (1 all ohio)....just a thought!

1_beast;847795 wrote:lost to dover with 5 freshman in the lineup and missing 2 state qualifiers (1 all ohio)....just a thought!

you know if my aunt had balls... got to wrestle who is available, proves the depth point beasty

bendem;847822 wrote:you know if my aunt had balls... got to wrestle who is available, proves the depth point beasty

I didnt say "IF"...I just stated a fact!