^^^^haha. you didn't know Woody very well. Woody was a man of strong conviction and didn't need the media to stroke his ego....nor would he have changed because of it. He regularly tore up yardline markers, screamed at referees, and apologized for nothing. If "today's media" would have shortened his career it would be because the pussies in Board room couldn't stand the heat. If Coach Hayes 'gave a kid money' it was because the kid needed it, and he wouldn't care a hill of beans about a picayune NCAA rule IF HE THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Moreover, giving some cash to player who truley needs it gives the school NO ADVANTAGE on the football field, yet it is a violation of the NCAA rulebook....400 pages of sections, subsections and point after point.

It sure is easy for us upper middle class silver spooners to say "How could they sell their memorabilia?...those gold beat Michigan pants are priceless!"

Robert Rose, former Buckeye player summed it up pretty neatly in the recent SI story.../
"He says he has no regrets: “I knew how much money that the school was making. I always heard about how Ohio State had the biggest Nike budget. I was struggling, my mom was struggling.?.?.?. It was just something that I had to do. I was in a hard spot.?.?.?.[Other] guys were doing it for the same reasons. The university doesn’t really help. Technically we knew it was wrong, but a lot of those guys are from the inner city and we didn’t have much, and we had to go on the best we could. I couldn’t call home to ask my mom to help me out.”

Earlier in this thread it was said that Coach Hayes salary was $ 20 K....but today Tressel's was $3.5 M. Yet today, the players can only get the same thing they got 60 years ago....a full ride, but nothing more. That doesn't pay the bills, nor the needs of a young man. So while the University is making money...paying its football coach $multi- millions .....and spending $1M+ to just to fill out NCAA compliance paperwork, the inner city kid who gets a tattoo gets hammered....And we just go back to our comfortable homes and lifestyle and wonder why a kid like that could be so stupid.


"

HitsRus;789517 wrote:^^^^haha. you didn't know Woody very well. Woody was a man of strong conviction and didn't need the media to stroke his ego....nor would he have changed because of it. He regularly tore up yardline markers, screamed at referees, and apologized for nothing. If "today's media" would have shortened his career it would be because the pussies in Board room couldn't stand the heat. If Coach Hayes 'gave a kid money' it was because the kid needed it, and he wouldn't care a hill of beans about a picayune NCAA rule IF HE THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Moreover, giving some cash to player who truley needs it gives the school NO ADVANTAGE on the football field, yet it is a violation of the NCAA rulebook....400 pages of sections, subsections and point after point.

It sure is easy for us upper middle class silver spooners to say "How could they sell their memorabilia?...those gold beat Michigan pants are priceless!"

Robert Rose, former Buckeye player summed it up pretty neatly in the recent SI story.../
"He says he has no regrets: “I knew how much money that the school was making. I always heard about how Ohio State had the biggest Nike budget. I was struggling, my mom was struggling.?.?.?. It was just something that I had to do. I was in a hard spot.?.?.?.[Other] guys were doing it for the same reasons. The university doesn’t really help. Technically we knew it was wrong, but a lot of those guys are from the inner city and we didn’t have much, and we had to go on the best we could. I couldn’t call home to ask my mom to help me out.”

Earlier in this thread it was said that Coach Hayes salary was $ 20 K....but today Tressel's was $3.5 M. Yet today, the players can only get the same thing they got 60 years ago....a full ride, but nothing more. That doesn't pay the bills, nor the needs of a young man. So while the University is making money...paying its football coach $multi- millions .....and spending $1M+ to just to fill out NCAA compliance paperwork, the inner city kid who gets a tattoo gets hammered....And we just go back to our comfortable homes and lifestyle and wonder why a kid like that could be so stupid."

I agree with a lot of what you say. Just a couple of things that I don't:
1) Giving a kid money doesn't change how that kid plays, but getting a reputation as a person who gives players money ABSOLUTELY can be a recruiting advantage and that is the problem with it; there was more to the Hayes case than just his handouts for needy black kids - kids were being paid to work, but weren't doing the work...that isn't a great lesson and again, definitely can be used a recruiting tool
2) I don't think kids today get the same money as they did 60 years ago and in fact, I believe that Hayes was a major force in enhancing the financial package for college athletes

You may have answered this before and I'm sorry if you have, but where would you draw the line? Is your stance that "it was their stuff" or is it that any athlete should get to make whatever they can? Is there a difference between this and what Reggie Bush got? Should the NCAA pay players or should they just turn their heads when these types of rules are broken?

For the record, I know the NCAA can't make college football a profession for these guys. And I don't believe that even if the NCAA could somehow find a way to provide additional money to all athletes (which they'd have to) that it'd fix the "problem" of agents, etc. However, I'd be perfectly fine if they'd just go back to the days of handing out bogus penalties (instead of trying to prove a point every few years by nailing someone) so these things don't turn into character assassinations.

Oh, and for the guys who pointed it out - yes, I agree that my math wasn't a true representation of inflation. It was simply a percentage comparison of what the coaches make and wasn't really a good way to illustrate the difference in eras. My bad.

HitsRus;789517 wrote:^^^^haha. you didn't know Woody very well. Woody was a man of strong conviction and didn't need the media to stroke his ego....nor would he have changed because of it. He regularly tore up yardline markers, screamed at referees, and apologized for nothing. If "today's media" would have shortened his career it would be because the pussies in Board room couldn't stand the heat. If Coach Hayes 'gave a kid money' it was because the kid needed it, and he wouldn't care a hill of beans about a picayune NCAA rule IF HE THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Moreover, giving some cash to player who truley needs it gives the school NO ADVANTAGE on the football field, yet it is a violation of the NCAA rulebook....400 pages of sections, subsections and point after point.

It sure is easy for us upper middle class silver spooners to say "How could they sell their memorabilia?...those gold beat Michigan pants are priceless!"

Robert Rose, former Buckeye player summed it up pretty neatly in the recent SI story.../
"He says he has no regrets: “I knew how much money that the school was making. I always heard about how Ohio State had the biggest Nike budget. I was struggling, my mom was struggling.?.?.?. It was just something that I had to do. I was in a hard spot.?.?.?.[Other] guys were doing it for the same reasons. The university doesn’t really help. Technically we knew it was wrong, but a lot of those guys are from the inner city and we didn’t have much, and we had to go on the best we could. I couldn’t call home to ask my mom to help me out.”

Earlier in this thread it was said that Coach Hayes salary was $ 20 K....but today Tressel's was $3.5 M. Yet today, the players can only get the same thing they got 60 years ago....a full ride, but nothing more. That doesn't pay the bills, nor the needs of a young man. So while the University is making money...paying its football coach $multi- millions .....and spending $1M+ to just to fill out NCAA compliance paperwork, the inner city kid who gets a tattoo gets hammered....And we just go back to our comfortable homes and lifestyle and wonder why a kid like that could be so stupid.


"

I guess I missed where I said Woody would need the media to stroke his ego. I was merely agreeing with Fat Hobbit that Woody wouldn't make it today with how the media digs deep and puts your business out in the open. Woody would've gone the same way as Tressel. Tressel didn't need the media to stroke his ego either....

"It sure is easy for us upper middle class silver spooners to say "How could they sell their memorabilia?...those gold beat Michigan pants are priceless!""

Its even easier for those of us who follow rules and expect others to do the same to say, "How stupid are these guys, don't they know this is a violation?"

I went to a BCS school, if these guys budget properly they NEED NOTHING. A schollie with full tuition, books, housing, food, clothing, travel expenses, per diems in season, tutoring services, special cafeterias, special clinics, special workout facilities is worth what? - at least $50,000/year at many schools. Spare us the "poor inner city" crap, what happened to Rob Rose between playing at Glenville to his OSU career (if you could call it that) that turned his family into destitution? My guess: nothing. These guys weren't selling stuff for meal money, they were getting perks that aren't proper and IMO its a very good rule. If they can't handle it they can enter the NFL draft 3 years after HS and work in the interim.

I will say this, you've been consistent in your indignant stance, but I don't get it. These are clear and serious violations, and of course it helps recruiting if a program gets a reputation for letting athletes get graft on the side. Sorry you haven't come around to it yet, but OSU was wrong, the players were in the wrong, and Tressel was in the wrong, and the entire program will have to suffer for it....all for tattoos and bling, not to help poor Ms. Rose pay her electric bill. These guys aren't sympathetic figures.

These are clear and serious violations

Yes, they are. But the rules are unjust. How many of these 'wrongs' disappear if you change the rules to allow the kids to make a small amount off money off their fame....everybody else asscociated with the game sure is. Sure, according to your opinion these BCS athletes NEED NOTHING. They have everything they NEED, except CASH. How much time do these guys have to get a legitimate job, considering that playing D1 sports is a full time job in and of its self? Moreover, we expect/demand 19 year old boys to be saints...LOL.There is no evidence that any of these kids got rich. Yet because of these unjust rules, witness the sequealae that has followed. SMH. Just not only at OSU.

HitsRus;789698 wrote:Yes, they are. But the rules are unjust. How many of these 'wrongs' disappear if you change the rules to allow the kids to make a small amount off money off their fame....everybody else asscociated with the game sure is. Sure, according to your opinion these BCS athletes NEED NOTHING. They have everything they NEED, except CASH. How much time do these guys have to get a legitimate job, considering that playing D1 sports is a full time job in and of its self? Moreover, we expect/demand 19 year old boys to be saints...LOL.There is no evidence that any of these kids got rich. Yet because of these unjust rules, witness the sequealae that has followed. SMH. Just not only at OSU.

How would define a "small amount"? They already receive cash in a monthly stipend. If you increased it, do you really thinnk it will change those who are going to break the rules because they feel that they should receive more?

Al Bundy;789825 wrote:How would define a "small amount"? They already receive cash in a monthly stipend. If you increased it, do you really thinnk it will change those who are going to break the rules because they feel that they should receive more?

Yeah, a couple things there. Whatever the case is, you can't let them make money "off their fame". That immediately makes recruiting a marketing contest. Even if you cap it, there's still going to be discrepancies amongst players that just isn't going to be easily managed. The other thing is, unless you are paying them like its a fulltime profession, the lure of a hundred extra bucks here and there is still going to be hard to resist. Increasing the money they get is not going to solve the "problem". Basically, the only "solution" is to either completely open the flood gates or keep trying to shut down what you can.

You asked for an idea...here it is, as well as the logic behind it.
http://www.thegrio.com/sports/why-stipends-are-ideal-solution-for-student-athletes.php
Ohio State is NOT even mentioned here. Case after case occurs all over college football despite the 'penalties'.
What happened at OSU is hardly an exception. And like Ohio State, few players who took money have any regrets.

They already receive cash in a monthly stipend

for room and board.

The "rules" were/are written by a bunch of 40 year old men. Who think that 19 year olds should think and act just like them. These kids should be grateful that they are getting a free college education, that they should just hang around the dorms watching TV or doing nothing, if they are not out working on their sport to make the University millions.

"Who think that 19 year olds should think and act just like them. These kids should be grateful that they are getting a free college education, that they should just hang around the dorms watching TV or doing nothing, if they are not out working on their sport to make the University millions. "

I think 19 year olds should act like 19 year olds. For God's sake a 6 pack of Milwaukee's Best was a luxury when I was college, on a good weekend we sprung for Bud Light - even at the "rich kid" fraternities you'd never see a non-domestic keg and it wasn't until senior year until we could afford medium shelf liquor. College students are by nature, poor. These guys don't need Chrysler 300's or access to a lot of cash. Tens of thousands of college students (including many from disadvantaged backgrounds) somehow manage without living like they are P. Diddy. Giving these guys more money isn't going to solve anything...just cause more problems. The more you give them, the more they will want.

I didnt think Woody ever lost his "hero status".......Woody was a hot head who let his emotions get the best of him that sad day ...I still cant stand Clemson or any southern football teams ..but thats just me ..Too bad Woody didnt get under that chin and really give C Bauman a good upper cut ..oh well more over I watched the game on ESPN classics and where in the heck was our QB throwing that ball?????? It looked like a Niel Odonnel pass to larry brown in super bowl XXX....anyway long live Woody Buckeyes forever !!!