Larry or Dirk?

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Ironman92

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May 24, 2011 8:29 PM
Dirk is awesome...that unbelievable performance should be remembered for a long time. Larry was 2-3 inches shorter but when you ask the greatest shooter of all-time...Dirk's name gets brought up sometime...Bird's name gets brought up every time and extremely early in the conversation.

Bird is also the best passing non-guard of all-time.

3 MVP
3 Titles

Better rebounder and also one of the smartest players ever.

This is all coming from a huge Magic Johnson fan who hated the Celtics.
May 24, 2011 8:29pm
G

Gardens35

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4,929 posts
May 24, 2011 9:18 PM
said_aouita;778538 wrote:If you were to start a team, would you take Larry Bird or Dirk Nowitzki at their best?
Bird. At his best, at that time, he was one of 2 or 3 that carried the entire league.
May 24, 2011 9:18pm
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Little Danny

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May 24, 2011 9:43 PM
Not only is Bird a better shooter, passer and defender, the man had some of the greatest intangibles ever. Like MJ, the man was a winner..... Period. He was also one of the toughest and dirtiest SOB's to play the game. I'd take him over Dirk in a heart beat.

I know this thread was born out of discusion on ESPN radio today. Cowherd had top 5 team every and he had Larry Legend as the #1 PF and Barkley as the #2 PF. He had Dirk at #3. I question whether Dirk is a top 5 all time PF. In addition to the first two, I would put Karl Malone, Moses Malone and Tim Duncan ahead of him.
May 24, 2011 9:43pm
A

Al Bundy

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4,180 posts
May 24, 2011 11:20 PM
Little Danny;779331 wrote:Not only is Bird a better shooter, passer and defender, the man had some of the greatest intangibles ever. Like MJ, the man was a winner..... Period. He was also one of the toughest and dirtiest SOB's to play the game. I'd take him over Dirk in a heart beat.

I know this thread was born out of discusion on ESPN radio today. Cowherd had top 5 team every and he had Larry Legend as the #1 PF and Barkley as the #2 PF. He had Dirk at #3. I question whether Dirk is a top 5 all time PF. In addition to the first two, I would put Karl Malone, Moses Malone and Tim Duncan ahead of him.

I heard some of that too. The problem I had with Cowherd's top 5 was that Bird normally played SF. There were times he played PF depending upon who was on the court, but he was at his best as a SF.
May 24, 2011 11:20pm
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2kool4skool

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May 25, 2011 3:28 AM
Larry Bird
PPG - 24.3
RPG - 10
APG - 6.3
FG % - .496

Dirk Nowitzki
PPG - 23
RPG - 8.4
APG - 2.7
FG % - .476

These are both players' #'s through 13 seasons. Bird only played 13 seasons, while Nowitzki likely still has at least a few more effective years left in him. While I'd take Bird, mainly because I think they're equal except in passing where he has a huge advantage, it's not as ridiculous a question as people are making it out to be.
May 25, 2011 3:28am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

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7,566 posts
May 25, 2011 4:14 AM
"While I'd take Bird, mainly because I think they're equal except in passing where he has a huge advantage,"

The advantage is equally huge on defense....Bird was a real s.o.b. defending and that was in the era where teams had to play man to man. Bird was also more of a creator, both in terms of his own shot and assisting others. It seemed like every game he did something that would make you think "hell the hell did he pull that off?".
May 25, 2011 4:14am
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brutus161

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May 26, 2011 6:06 AM
I'm a Mavs fan, and Dirk is one of my all-time favorite players, but I would still take Bird 100 times out of 100.
May 26, 2011 6:06am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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May 26, 2011 5:50 PM
You'll never convince the old timers that any player now was better than any player in the old days. It's hilarious.

Dirk by a mile, Larry played in a watered down league.
May 26, 2011 5:50pm
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gerb131

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May 26, 2011 5:51 PM
Dirk. Just based on name alone.
May 26, 2011 5:51pm
Little Danny's avatar

Little Danny

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May 26, 2011 7:57 PM
sleeper;782243 wrote:You'll never convince the old timers that any player now was better than any player in the old days. It's hilarious.

Dirk by a mile, Larry played in a watered down league.
The old timers have seen both play. Therefore, they are the best to judge on who is better.

Even when Bird was in the league people were amazed how good he was. They just saw this ugly white guy with no top lip. He wasn't supposed to be so good. Back in the 80s there was a huge divide between Larry Bird fans and everyone else. The brothers hated him and the white guys pretty much supported him. If there were message boards around at the time I could imagine the boards would be just lit up on Larry Bird conversation.
May 26, 2011 7:57pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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May 26, 2011 8:58 PM
Little Danny;782293 wrote:The old timers have seen both play. Therefore, they are the best to judge on who is better.

Even when Bird was in the league people were amazed how good he was. They just saw this ugly white guy with no top lip. He wasn't supposed to be so good. Back in the 80s there was a huge divide between Larry Bird fans and everyone else. The brothers hated him and the white guys pretty much supported him. If there were message boards around at the time I could imagine the boards would be just lit up on Larry Bird conversation.

Nostalgia is a real phenomenon. Nothing will ever be better than "the good ole days".

Get over yourself, Larry Bird played in a league that was heavily watered down. Dirk would take Larry to lunch, it's not even close, and the old timers know it.
May 26, 2011 8:58pm
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Ironman92

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May 26, 2011 9:04 PM
Did the "watered" down 80's help him prove his 3 point shooting expertise by dominating the 3 point shooting contest....with his warmups still on? Did his 3 titles in a league with the 5 time world champion Lakers not mean that they were better than the Lakers those years. When everyone who knows anything about basketball says Bird is one of the best players ever...does that not mean anything?

If there were 5 tiers of the HOF with Tier 5 being the best of the best....everyone would have Bird on Tier 5....most would have Dirk on 2-4....mostly 3 I'd guess.

And funny enough...Dirk has yet to win anything....is he above Dominic Wilkins?
May 26, 2011 9:04pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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May 26, 2011 9:09 PM
THe old timers know it? lol

No great player of any generation is going to admit or believe the newer guys are better or that they could not compete with them....they were the best of the best for a reason...they believed no one could top them and other than Magic...no one even came close to to topping Bird.

Is Dirk above Tim Duncan sleeper?

A month ago Dirk was a player that was going to the HOF and going to put up a mess of career points....now he's taking it to Larry Bird, Awesome.


He's better than Jordan too. Obviously
May 26, 2011 9:09pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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27,879 posts
May 26, 2011 9:10 PM
Ironman92;782320 wrote:Did the "watered" down 80's help him prove his 3 point shooting expertise by dominating the 3 point shooting contest....with his warmups still on? Did his 3 titles in a league with the 5 time world champion Lakers not mean that they were better than the Lakers those years. When everyone who knows anything about basketball says Bird is one of the best players ever...does that not mean anything?

If there were 5 tiers of the HOF with Tier 5 being the best of the best....everyone would have Bird on Tier 5....most would have Dirk on 2-4....mostly 3 I'd guess.

And funny enough...Dirk has yet to win anything....is he above Dominic Wilkins?
It's a lot easier to win when the entire league is full of D-league type talent. The better question, and maybe I'll start a poll, is what bench would Larry ride his entire career in today's NBA?
May 26, 2011 9:10pm
GOONx19's avatar

GOONx19

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May 26, 2011 9:27 PM
Ironman92;782320 wrote:Did the "watered" down 80's help him prove his 3 point shooting expertise by dominating the 3 point shooting contest....with his warmups still on? Did his 3 titles in a league with the 5 time world champion Lakers not mean that they were better than the Lakers those years. When everyone who knows anything about basketball says Bird is one of the best players ever...does that not mean anything?

If there were 5 tiers of the HOF with Tier 5 being the best of the best....everyone would have Bird on Tier 5....most would have Dirk on 2-4....mostly 3 I'd guess.

And funny enough...Dirk has yet to win anything....is he above Dominic Wilkins?

First of all, who the hell cares about the 3 point contest. Daequan Cook easily won the contest a few years ago; he must be as good as Bird. Plus, warmups are meant to be easy to shoot in. Not a factor.

Second, there has never been a hall-of-fame caliber player named Dominic.
May 26, 2011 9:27pm
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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May 26, 2011 9:55 PM
My bad on the "c" "k" issue...boo to me...this damn IPhone corrects/guesses what I mean to type.

At age 55 I imagine he'd have trouble on the bench at a Y league.

This past month has launched Dirk beyond most all players ever.

1. Jordan
2. Dirk
3. Magic
4. Joel Anthony
May 26, 2011 9:55pm
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Iliketurtles

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8,191 posts
May 26, 2011 10:45 PM
Ironman92;782396 wrote:My bad on the "c" "k" issue...boo to me...this damn IPhone corrects/guesses what I mean to type.

At age 55 I imagine he'd have trouble on the bench at a Y league.

This past month has launched Dirk beyond most all players ever.

1. Jordan
2. Dirk
3. Magic
4. Joel Anthony
Your list is off we all know Joel Anthony is #1.
May 26, 2011 10:45pm
GOONx19's avatar

GOONx19

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7,147 posts
May 26, 2011 11:48 PM
Ironman92;782396 wrote:My bad on the "c" "k" issue...boo to me...this damn IPhone corrects/guesses what I mean to type.

LOL, "C" and "K" issue? There's no K in his name either. Seriously, the guy is known entirely by his first name, and its pronunciation makes it nearly impossible to spell wrong. Yet you're trying to make an argument about NBA history.
May 26, 2011 11:48pm
S

sportswizuhrd

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May 27, 2011 12:01 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4678670/first-take-rick-carlisle-talks-dirk-bird-comparisons

Carlisle(former Bird teammate) says the one thing that Bird had that Dirk didnt was being surrounded by 3-4 HOF caliber guys and Dirk really hasn't. Cant say I disagree there. McHale, Johnson, Parish, Maxwell, Archibald....Dirk has had Jason Kidd and Steve Nash.
May 27, 2011 12:01am
Ironman92's avatar

Ironman92

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May 27, 2011 5:47 AM
Yeah...my epic failure has made it's way to this thread for sure. I suppose thinking is important.

Bird > Dirk....but now that is just my opinion....I've already deemed myself retarded on this thread...so now I must stay away. Lol

Have a good debate guys. If you need me I'll be on the Mark McGuire and Cal Ripkin thread where I belong .
May 27, 2011 5:47am
E

enigmaax

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4,511 posts
May 27, 2011 8:18 AM
sleeper;782315 wrote:Nostalgia is a real phenomenon. Nothing will ever be better than "the good ole days".

Get over yourself, Larry Bird played in a league that was heavily watered down.

For young guys, "the good ole days" are right now. The same principle applies - you see guys who played 20 years ago as fossils who couldn't have possibly kept up with today's bigger, stronger, faster athletes. Everyone wants to think they witnessed/are witnessing "the all-time greatest"

As for the league being watered down - there were at least 7 less teams during the Bird era. That means that something like a hundred guys who never would have been professionals now get that opportunity. The more people you add, the less talented you have to be to make it. The dynamic of good/great teams isn't a whole lot different between eras - there were a handful then and there's a handful now. But with so many additional players spreading the middle/lower end of the talent pool a little more thinly, you actually end up with worse teams on the bottom. That makes for a more watered down league.
May 27, 2011 8:18am
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royal_k

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May 27, 2011 8:41 AM
Anyone that has seen both play would know...Bird > Dirk...And that's a fact.

lol at the league being watered down. The Celtics and Lakers teams of that era would still dominate today.
May 27, 2011 8:41am
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Skyhook79

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5,739 posts
May 27, 2011 9:07 AM
enigmaax;782898 wrote:For young guys, "the good ole days" are right now. The same principle applies - you see guys who played 20 years ago as fossils who couldn't have possibly kept up with today's bigger, stronger, faster athletes. Everyone wants to think they witnessed/are witnessing "the all-time greatest"

As for the league being watered down - there were at least 7 less teams during the Bird era. That means that something like a hundred guys who never would have been professionals now get that opportunity. The more people you add, the less talented you have to be to make it. The dynamic of good/great teams isn't a whole lot different between eras - there were a handful then and there's a handful now. But with so many additional players spreading the middle/lower end of the talent pool a little more thinly, you actually end up with worse teams on the bottom. That makes for a more watered down league.

sleeper wasn't aware the NBA existed until 2003 so you will have to cut him some slack.
May 27, 2011 9:07am
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Rebel_ I.N.S.

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May 27, 2011 1:17 PM
Bird & it's not even close.
May 27, 2011 1:17pm