Manhattan Buckeye;1116745 wrote:As opposed to the poison we picked in '08. In a race with 100 runners, you don't need to be the first to defeat the last, 99th place still wins over 100th. Unfortunately for all of us we picked the 100th and are suffering for it.

Let's see....
24 months of job growth
Saved the American Auto Industry
Bringing us back from almost complete economic collapse
Ended the War in Iraq
Ordered the mission that finally killed Osama Bin Laden
First President to ever pass a national Health Care Bill
Ended DADT

Sounds like the "poison" has been pretty good for us

Still above 8% unemployment(really 15-20%)
Saved auto industry? What about Ford? How did they survive?
Bringing us back from economic collapse? Oh you mean 2011 worst year ever for real estate?


I will give credit for dadt, osama and iraq, however afghanistan still going on, unconstitutional attacks on libya, unconstitutional passing of ndaa, obamacare,, energy policy , pretty much everything else has been a failure.

Of course romney, santorum or gingrich will do no better. Good luck to everyone for the next four years

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Let's see....
24 months of job growth
Saved the American Auto Industry
Bringing us back from almost complete economic collapse
Ended the War in Iraq
Ordered the mission that finally killed Osama Bin Laden
First President to ever pass a national Health Care Bill
Ended DADT

Sounds like the "poison" has been pretty good for us

-24 months of "job growth" that would have got a GOP'er impeached. Our jobs recovery is anemic. We're still at historical unemployment, helluva job Barry!

-Saved a dying company, wake me up in six years when we need to bail out GM and their crappy cars again, and we destroyed years of common law bankruptcy rules by screwing bondholders, how is that working out for us?

- the same economic collapse that the administration claims "no one" foresaw, other than those of us that actually worked a day in our lives and saw it in September '07. Way to work that Harvard law degree Barry!

- Um, I think we're still in Iraq

- By acting like the villainous "W", amazing that the best thing Obama has done is preside like his hated precedent.

- who cares? Keep it in the bedroom, and wasn't DADT a Democrat policy.

Here are facts:

1) We have historically low interest rates that are affecting our currency's value.

2) Unemployment is unacceptably high.

3) Taxes will likely increase, because this administration has been unable to balance a budget. I'm not sure Obama has balanced a checkbook.

4) Real estate? Do I even need to explain?

5) Crony capitalism (another gripe about "W"), rewarding faux green jobs companies with gold-plated investments and social nitwits that think that the government shouldn't be involved in the bedroom, unless it is paying for it.

This administration is an unholy combination of Carter and W.

Obama is an abject failure. I agree the Repubs might not be much better, but how can anyone double-down on such a failure? What has he actually accomplished that has been good for this country? The financial rescue was already under way, and GM was teed-up for him (appropriate, since all he seems to do is golf and campaign, in between appointing czars to further weaken the economy). I can see people not WANTING to vote for the others, but I don't know how anyone COULD vote for Obama.

We've averaged $1T+ more in deficits, on average, than the Bush years. $1.5T deficit is almost 10% of GDP. The economy still sucks, so WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING?!? Let's put that in perspective. 10% unemployment, just to use round numbers...Roughly 15M people....$1T is $67k per. I bet those people wonder where in hell all the money is going.

Between that, the jobs record and a failure of leadership to even have a budget to operate under....wow, one can only imagine the rhetoric from the left if we had a Repub in office. Oh, almost forgot the debt ceiling debacle. Obama took a page out of Countrywide for that one with his own version of a Liar Liar NINJA loan.

It's funny to watch them struggle to prop him up, though, which is why they're up to the old tricks of trying to paint everyone as a "Limbaugh Republican" - ignorant, redneck males that want to send women and minorities back 50 years.

When Obamakare gets kicked to the curb he really won't have any legacy other than failure. But perhaps he'll be able to fill-up his Presidential Library with autographs from all the celebs he's brought in to party at the White House.

sjmvsfscs08;1116451 wrote:Romney + Rubio = guaranteed Florida, New Mexico. Virginia, North Carolina, and Missouri will go red. Bank on it.

Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Iowa will go Obama. The likelihood is in that order of best to worst.

Nevada has the worst economy in the country, and a slew of Mormons and Hispanics. Chalk it up to Romney/Rubio.

So....Ohio and New Hampshire.

Ohio's economy is recovering, so that helps Obama. But Kasich is seeing his approval numbers improve steadily, so that helps Romney. Consider it an Obama lean.

BUT, New Hampshire loves Romney, does it not? He was their neighbor to the south for decades. Say it goes Romney.

That would be a 269-269 tie, and the US House of Representatives gets to decide the election.

Boom. Craziest election in history.

If that were the case we'd be looking at President Romney. No way the House votes for Obama.

Manhattan Buckeye;1116781 wrote:-24 months of "job growth" that would have got a GOP'er impeached. Our jobs recovery is anemic. We're still at historical unemployment, helluva job Barry!

-Saved a dying company, wake me up in six years when we need to bail out GM and their crappy cars again, and we destroyed years of common law bankruptcy rules by screwing bondholders, how is that working out for us?

- the same economic collapse that the administration claims "no one" foresaw, other than those of us that actually worked a day in our lives and saw it in September '07. Way to work that Harvard law degree Barry!

- Um, I think we're still in Iraq

- By acting like the villainous "W", amazing that the best thing Obama has done is preside like his hated precedent.

- who cares? Keep it in the bedroom, and wasn't DADT a Democrat policy.

Here are facts:

1) We have historically low interest rates that are affecting our currency's value.

2) Unemployment is unacceptably high.

3) Taxes will likely increase, because this administration has been unable to balance a budget. I'm not sure Obama has balanced a checkbook.

4) Real estate? Do I even need to explain?

5) Crony capitalism (another gripe about "W"), rewarding faux green jobs companies with gold-plated investments and social nitwits that think that the government shouldn't be involved in the bedroom, unless it is paying for it.

This administration is an unholy combination of Carter and W.

Didn't GM just post a record quarterly profit? i don't know if they are dying or not, but I don't think they'll need another bailout.

dwccrew;1116813 wrote:If that were the case we'd be looking at President Romney. No way the House votes for Obama.



Didn't GM just post a record quarterly profit? i don't know if they are dying or not, but I don't think they'll need another bailout.

Not difficult to post a record profit when your debt was wiped away (to the tune of billions on the taxpayers' wallet). If my wife and I make $15,000 a month and have debt obligations of $5,000 month, then all of a sudden the debt obligation is significantly reduced, it shouldn't be a shock that our net gain/month is significantly raised. That doesn't necessarily make us more productive, it just lessened our debt costs.

Manhattan Buckeye;1116871 wrote:Not difficult to post a record profit when your debt was wiped away (to the tune of billions on the taxpayers' wallet). If my wife and I make $15,000 a month and have debt obligations of $5,000 month, then all of a sudden the debt obligation is significantly reduced, it shouldn't be a shock that our net gain/month is significantly raised. That doesn't necessarily make us more productive, it just lessened our debt costs.

I haven't looked at it to know if we are talking Net Income or Earnings (EBITDA). Debt/Interest is below the line, as would a bunch of tax credits I think they received.

It's not some magical thing the PEO (POTUS Exec. Officer) did. The big thing was forced wage reductions and restructuring of the pension obligation made their labor costs much more competitive. All of that (except maybe the tax credits) would have happened in a typical reorg. Truthfully the capital markets were closed, but too much value in assets for some buyer (likely foreign) not to step-up. And I don't believe that would have been in our long-term interest to just have a firesale of assets and lose the jobs.

I also think, although it will cost the taxpayer billions, not stepping in would have cost the taxpayer billions more (lost taxes on wages, sales and profits, but the big one would have been assumption of the pension under the PGBC).

In another time I think you let GM and Chrsyler go under. Certainly the capital would probably have been their for a reorg, if it made sense. But the efficiency of capitlism/free markets fails when the market isn't able to absorb those displaced workers. It's an example where the short-run transition costs dominate the long-run benefits, and the academic/theoretical models fail under such a scenario.

I'd also point out that Chrysler was bailed out in the 80's and did well for a number of years, REALLY well in the late 90's up to the sale to Daimler. I think the auto industry will track the airlines being in and out of bankruptcy because it has powerful unions and is so tied to oil prices and interest rates. The airlines have clear economic value and might be worthy of some subsidy. The auto industry is much more debateable, and the argument would have to center on strategic/defense.

But it's a bit disingenuous to claim to have saved THE auto industry. Toyota, Honda and other foreign manufacturers with plants here in the US were doing 'ok', and Ford pulled itself through (but Ford benefited, too, with many matching concessions from the UAW). Many of the foreign plants are down south where they have a competitive wage advantage. Also helps they aren't as unionized. But the big advantage they enjoyed, by virtue of only being here 20-30 years, is they didn't have the huge pension overhang.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Let's see....

Let's...

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:24 months of job growth

You expected to see job losses continue forever? The American economy is the best one in the history of the world--it's really tough to kill.

What's debatable is how strong the recovery has been and whether it's strong enough, considering the GDP growth percentages are pretty tepid at best....the economy is a huuuuuge liability for Obama.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Saved the American Auto Industry

How much of this credit are you going to give Bush? Care to mention that 1) there are billions that the US gov't will never get back, 2) they filed for bankruptcy regardless of the bailout, and 3) Fiat now runs the show at Chrysler, because they have better management clearly.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Bringing us back from almost complete economic collapse

It's tough to say he brought us back from a complete economic collapse, when the TARP bailout really did that and that was Bush. What he did was stuff funds into the state budgets via stimulus which in fairness prevented huge layoffs on that level...but what good does that do us when he's just printing the money and the economy sorta looks like we're just half-way through a "lost decade" like Japan had. Trading two years of extreme misery for ten years of moderate misery isn't really a bargain.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Ended the War in Iraq

You mean the guy who opposed the surge that won the war gets credit for ending it? GTFOOHWTS. Military generals ended the war, not Obama.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Ordered the mission that finally killed Osama Bin Laden

Obama definitely gets props from me on this. His advisers were 50/50 on it and he pulled the trigger.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:First President to ever pass a national Health Care Bill

NOT A GOOD THING.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Ended DADT

+1 for Obama here too.

Ty Webb;1116765 wrote:Sounds like the "poison" has been pretty good for us

No, not at all. There isn't much there that 1) Bush didn't start, and 2) Romney couldn't do better.

GM will need another bailout when the government stops propping them up buying cars and lending them 0% money and what have you. When will that happen? Not until the money they prop everything up with isn't worth anything.

Here is something that the R's need to explain. How would they deal with this? Sequestration. Since if it is not fixed, it will occur January 2013. It could have huge impacts on the economy. And Congress isn't doing jack on it.....
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2012/03/14/defense-industry-lets-deal-with-sequestration-aready/

There is alot of stuff that congress and the president are not doing. Anybody want to fix Social Security? With Obama in full campaign mode...nothing will get done again this year unless it directly buys him votes.

HitsRus;1118545 wrote:There is alot of stuff that congress and the president are not doing. Anybody want to fix Social Security? With Obama in full campaign mode...nothing will get done again this year unless it directly buys him votes.

True, but what are the R's going to do about it if it is not fixed? How would they address it? I haven't heard a peep from them about it.

from what I can tell is that both parties continue to act as is it won't happen. Business as usual.

My guess is that Congress (particularly the House) is quietly hoping that this issue goes away. This is what Boehner got for appeasing the tea party and now he will be held responsible if the cuts are made.

I'm somewhat surprised that we haven't heard jack-s*** from Speaker Boehner lately. Every so often he has a "North Korea moment" and says something outrageous to remind us that he is still Speaker of the House. No jobs bills introduced, nothing. For a guy who campaigned hard on "Jobs", he hasn't done anything since the midterms. Maybe he's worried his days as Speaker are numbered.

If anything...Romney has stated that defense spending would not be cut...and he is the most 'moderate of the Republican candidates.

While Romney is just a candidate, Panetta is actually Sec. of Defense, and he is doing NOTHING to prepare for this.

As for jobs...LOL... one word...Keystone.... end of arguement.

stlouiedipalma;1119217 wrote:Every so often he has a "North Korea moment" and says something outrageous to remind us that he is still Speaker of the House.

In contrast to Pelosi who did that on a daily basis.

gut;1119254 wrote:In contrast to Pelosi who did that on a daily basis.

Yes but you fail to remember that as long as the handout's keep cranking out of DC, liberals are free to have absurd and asinine North Korea Moments with impunity.

Based on their action (or, more appropriately, inaction) thus far, I'd have to say that the whole "tea party revolution" of 2010 has been one massive fail. Thhey haven't done anything and the Republican establishment has egg on its face.

It's primary day here in the Land of Lincoln. Compared to some of the Southern states, the advertising has been relatively tame. I was invited to a town-hall meeting with Mitt the other day in Collinsville but I decided it would be much more entertaining to watch the Buckeyes play Gonzaga. I think I made the correct choice.

The slow march of inevitablility is getting boring. These guys need to schedule some more debates and get the bood boiling again. Otherwise they will put us all to sleep until the convention.

stlouiedipalma;1122143 wrote:Based on their action (or, more appropriately, inaction) thus far, I'd have to say that the whole "tea party revolution" of 2010 has been one massive fail. Thhey haven't done anything and the Republican establishment has egg on its face.

Another short term memory lapse ............ I think they won back the House of Representatives from the marxists in 2010, on behalf of all those who believe in fiscal sanity.

Get the White House and the Senate in 2012, and we can finally turn this trainwreck around.

QuakerOats;1122168 wrote:Another short term memory lapse ............ I think they won back the House of Representatives from the marxists in 2010, on behalf of all those who believe in fiscal sanity.

Get the White House and the Senate in 2012, and we can finally turn this trainwreck around.

Yes, because 2006 was sooooo much better for the country....

stlouiedipalma;1122143 wrote:Based on their action (or, more appropriately, inaction) thus far, I'd have to say that the whole "tea party revolution" of 2010 has been one massive fail. Thhey haven't done anything and the Republican establishment has egg on its face.

More ignorance. Does the Left practice your "gotcha" lines above in focus groups, then trot them out to the public to see how many salute the idiocy?

Quaker already noted the historic ass-pounding the Left received in November, 2010 signifying the strength of the Tea Party. Here's today's strength, a/k/a Paul Ryan's budget blueprint - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/20/house-republicans-to-unveil-budget-blueprint/ Without the Tea Party...would the budget discussions focus on cutting deficits? Would there be a conservative-leaning House of Representatives? Would there be a daily assault on people that just want their government to live within its means and budgets?

I hope the haters, such as yourself, stay on their drumbeat. Y'all didn't see the giant broom 15 months ago and based on your post, y'all won't see it again in 8 months.

Thread Bomber;1122180 wrote:Yes, because 2006 was sooooo much better for the country....

Uh, yeah...it kinda was.

BGFalcons82;1122185 wrote:I hope the haters, such as yourself, stay on their drumbeat. Y'all didn't see the giant broom 15 months ago and based on your post, y'all won't see it again in 8 months.

Shhhhhhh.....dammit BG, you'll blow our cover.

It's quite comforting to know that our inevitable nominee will stop faking his conservatism after he's sealed up the nomination:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/top-romney-adviser-mitt-will-erase-his-conservative-positions-once-hes-the-nominee/2012/03/21/gIQAMYOlRS_blog.html

Think Progress flags an amazing exchange on CNN, in which Eric Fehrnstrom, a top adviser to Mitt Romney, seems to confirm that the conservative positions Romney has been forced to take during the primary won’t be a big deal because he can simply erase them once he becomes the GOP nominee:

Here’s the exchange:
[INDENT]HOST: Is there a concern that Santorum and Gingrich might force the governor to tack so far to the right it would hurt him with moderate voters in the general election?[/INDENT][INDENT]FEHRNSTROM: Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. Everything changes. It’s almost like an Etch A Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and restart all over again. [/INDENT]There you have it. Dems, predictably, are pouncing on the remark, arguing that it validates their message that Romney has no core and will say or do anything to get elected.

But you’d think this exchange should have more meaning for conservatives. Fehrnstrom has come awfully close to admitting that the most damaging conservative positions Romney has had to adopt in the primary will be “reset,” and — to continue the Etch A Sketch analogy — can be erased at will if necessary. You’d think conservative reporters and commentators might want to press for a bit of clarification here.

One other point: Note how casually these remarks were greeted by the panel of commentators, as if his kind of thing is just business as usual. As I and others, such as Steve Benen, have been pointing out, it seems likely that many commentators will forget all about Romney’s flirtation with far right positions and grant him the presumption of moderation the second he becomes the nominee. It will be widely accepted that Romney didn’t really mean any of the things he said to get through the primary; all that silly stuff was just part of the game. The above foreshadows this perfectly.

I don't know that I've ever been more depressed with a Republican nominee for president. Bob Dole and John McCain think this guy is lame. Really he doesn't even need to fake being a conservative with the tens of millions of carpet-bombing dollars he's spent.