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Filial Responsibility

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se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
May 9, 2011 3:03 PM
justincredible;763259 wrote:How does this scenario play out, which is a 100% true scenario in my case:

I am my fathers only biological child, though he has a few step-kids. I haven't had contact with my father since I was 12 years old. He packed up and moved from Ohio to Indiana without telling me when I was 12 or 13. I legally changed my last name to my mothers maiden name when I was 16 years old.

Would I be legally responsible for supporting the sonofabitch? I'd rather leave him out in the cold.

I would have no issues supporting my mother if it came to that but there is no damn way I'd give a dime to support my father.
According to Con_Alma, you should be responsible for his well being.
May 9, 2011 3:03pm
tk421's avatar

tk421

Senior Member

8,500 posts
May 9, 2011 4:57 PM
justincredible;763259 wrote:How does this scenario play out, which is a 100% true scenario in my case:

I am my fathers only biological child, though he has a few step-kids. I haven't had contact with my father since I was 12 years old. He packed up and moved from Ohio to Indiana without telling me when I was 12 or 13. I legally changed my last name to my mothers maiden name when I was 16 years old.

Would I be legally responsible for supporting the sonofabitch? I'd rather leave him out in the cold.

I would have no issues supporting my mother if it came to that but there is no damn way I'd give a dime to support my father.

+1000. I live with my mom and help out, but if my dad ever came knocking for money or anything, he can kiss my ass.
May 9, 2011 4:57pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
May 9, 2011 5:45 PM
Exactly.

Justin, if you chose to help the asshat, I'd nominate you for sainthood. But you should NOT be obligated.

If an elderly person is is "left out in the cold," and they were good parents, then blame the kids for being terrible people. It is NOT (or at least "should NOT be") the legal system's authority to mandate that anyone should be forced to care for any other legal adult, whether they need it or not.
May 9, 2011 5:45pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 9, 2011 8:00 PM
Today's world is "even stephen". Today's culture only chooses to help those that were good to them.

There was a day when we did what was right even if we didn't benefit from it.

There was a day when even if we were wronged personally, we chose to act graciously and through such acts show the world who was the greater person.

I say add to the legacy of your last name...especially if a family member has spit on that name through their own actions...even if that spit was directed towards you. Remember it's not your last name it's your entire family's name. Improve upon it if someone has acted wrongly...especially if they acted wrongly towards you.

Do you "have to do it"? Of course not. The more we choose not to, the more we will see such mandates forcing us to...and that's sad.
May 9, 2011 8:00pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 9, 2011 8:03 PM
se-alum;763332 wrote:According to Con_Alma, you should be responsible for his well being.


Thank you for spreading my views. I'm pretty good at it myself though!
May 9, 2011 8:03pm
Pick6's avatar

Pick6

A USA American

14,946 posts
May 9, 2011 8:04 PM
Disregarding whatever law, there are exceptions to whether or not you should take care of your parents. However, there are many people who are capable, had a good relationship with their parents, etc that choose not to because they are lazy. Probably a lot of them are the same bitching about our government debt. This forces a law to be made.
May 9, 2011 8:04pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
May 9, 2011 8:28 PM
Con_Alma;763529 wrote:Thank you for spreading my views. I'm pretty good at it myself though!


Yes you are, despite their idiocracy.
May 9, 2011 8:28pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
May 9, 2011 8:30 PM
Well, what the hell happened before Medicaid existed?....and you might as well include unwed mothers in the equation too. I'm not for ANY law that mandates that anyone should have to take care of anyone else, and that includes family members or the taxpayers...except on a very minimal level. Why government should be involved in what should be a family matter, period. It pains me to think that we have degenerated into society that shirks its familial ties and responsibility. I can't help but wonder if some of that is by government subsidizing that lack of responsibility. What you subsidize...you get more of. What you tax, you get less of. Maybe we simply need to tax people who don't take care of family and pass their responsibility on to the state.
May 9, 2011 8:30pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 9, 2011 8:35 PM
HitsRus;763556 wrote:Well, what the hell happened before Medicaid existed?....and you might as well include unwed mothers in the equation too. I'm not for ANY law that mandates that anyone should have to take care of anyone else, and that includes family members or the taxpayers...except on a very minimal level. It pains me to think that we have degenerated into society that shirks its familial ties and responsibility. I can't help but wonder if some of that is by government subsidizing that lack of responsibility.


Well said. Because my parents were idiots and treated me like crap isn't a great reason to pass their debts on to everyone else.
May 9, 2011 8:35pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
May 9, 2011 8:36 PM
Con_Alma;763527 wrote:Today's world is "even stephen". Today's culture only chooses to help those that were good to them.
It's not that they were good "to them." It's that they've earned being taken care of.
Con_Alma;763527 wrote:There was a day when we did what was right even if we didn't benefit from it.
Taking care of a father who was neglectful, lazy, substance-abusing, government-assisted "sperm donor" = the "right" thing to do.

So, is that sperm donation what makes it the "right" thing to do?

If not, why don't we just pair up a "buddy" system? There's a local man with a mental handicap. We think you should take care of him. You don't have a choice.
Con_Alma;763527 wrote:There was a day when even if we were wronged personally, we chose to act graciously and through such acts show the world who was the greater person.
I think this the right thing to do, but I've highlighted the part that is relevant to this discussion.
Con_Alma;763527 wrote:I say add to the legacy of your last name...especially if a family member has spit on that name through their own actions...even if that spit was directed towards you. Remember it's not your last name it's your entire family's name. Improve upon it if someone has acted wrongly...especially if they acted wrongly towards you.
This is the "oughtness" of this discussion. I agree that this is what a person "should" do, but I don't think forcing ethics is a wise trail to travel from a legal standpoint.
Con_Alma;763527 wrote:Do you "have to do it"? Of course not. The more we choose not to, the more we will see such mandates forcing us to...and that's sad.

It's very sad. Sad that we think that "do what you should ... or we'll make you" is an acceptable legislative practice.

There are people in our communities who cannot take care of themselves. Maybe they're our own parents. Maybe they're a single woman who has intellectually handicapped twins that were a result of a rape. Either way, we OUGHT to help them ...

... but it is NOT the governing body's place to force us.
May 9, 2011 8:36pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
May 9, 2011 8:37 PM
HitsRus;763556 wrote:Well, what the hell happened before Medicaid existed?....and you might as well include unwed mothers in the equation too. I'm not for ANY law that mandates that anyone should have to take care of anyone else, and that includes family members or the taxpayers...except on a very minimal level. It pains me to think that we have degenerated into society that shirks its familial ties and responsibility. I can't help but wonder if some of that is by government subsidizing that lack of responsibility.

You said it far better than I could.
May 9, 2011 8:37pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
May 9, 2011 8:40 PM
I've already told my parents that if they need to be taken care of when they are older that I will do it.....Old Yeller style.
May 9, 2011 8:40pm
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
May 9, 2011 8:51 PM
Con_Alma;763527 wrote:Today's world is "even stephen". Today's culture only chooses to help those that were good to them.

There was a day when we did what was right even if we didn't benefit from it.

There was a day when even if we were wronged personally, we chose to act graciously and through such acts show the world who was the greater person.

I say add to the legacy of your last name...especially if a family member has spit on that name through their own actions...even if that spit was directed towards you. Remember it's not your last name it's your entire family's name. Improve upon it if someone has acted wrongly...especially if they acted wrongly towards you.

Do you "have to do it"? Of course not. The more we choose not to, the more we will see such mandates forcing us to...and that's sad.

So you're saying I'd be a bad person for not taking care of the man who essentially his new wife and step kids over his biological son? It's not about doing the right thing, the man is nothing more than some guy to me. Sure, if I saw him drowning in a pond or something I'd do everything I could to save him but no way in hell would I ever feel obligated to support him in old age if there was no one else left in his life. Also, he hasn't spit on the last name. I changed it, remember? :)
May 9, 2011 8:51pm
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
May 9, 2011 9:37 PM
Con_Alma;763563 wrote:Well said. Because my parents were idiots and treated me like crap isn't a great reason to pass their debts on to everyone else.

but you shouldn't have to take care of them, period. If they didn't save enough money up, that's their fault. If they were assholes their whole life, then they should take the results of being said asshole. I agree that they shouldn't be taken care of by other peoples money, but the sons shouldn't be forced to take care of them if they don't want too(regardless of your "back in my days" argument)
May 9, 2011 9:37pm
tk421's avatar

tk421

Senior Member

8,500 posts
May 9, 2011 9:44 PM
Adults shouldn't have any obligation to take care of other adults unless they are married. If you have kids and they grow up and hate your guts and won't take care of you, tough shit. It's not their responsibility. You bring a life into this world, you are responsible for it until 18 in most cases, your kids shouldn't have to do anything for you if they don't want. So, if everyone thinks kids should take care of their parents, does that mean kids should have parents bills put on their credit reports? If mom/dad have tons of bills when they get older and can no longer pay them, are you going to volunteer to pay them off? You want the government to stick you with their debt?
May 9, 2011 9:44pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 10, 2011 7:30 AM
justincredible;763580 wrote:So you're saying I'd be a bad person for not taking care of the man who essentially his new wife and step kids over his biological son? ...
Nowhere have I stated that anyone would be bad for not taking care of another. Nowhere.
May 10, 2011 7:30am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 10, 2011 7:31 AM
DeyDurkie5;763649 wrote:... I agree that they shouldn't be taken care of by other peoples money,...
Help me understand where the money comes from if it shouldn't come from other people?
May 10, 2011 7:31am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 10, 2011 7:33 AM
tk421;763665 wrote:... If mom/dad have tons of bills when they get older and can no longer pay them, are you going to volunteer to pay them off? You want the government to stick you with their debt?


How about if I stick you with my parents debt and you can split it up with everyone else on Ohio Chatter? Essentially that's what will happen on a grander scale.
May 10, 2011 7:33am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 10, 2011 7:36 AM
O-Trap;763567 wrote:...
... but it is NOT the governing body's place to force us.


Here's when it becomes the government's place. When these liabilities start impacting others not affiliated at all. When unpaid debts are passed on in future costs or direct taxesthe government has a responsibility to step in on my behalf.
May 10, 2011 7:36am
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
May 10, 2011 8:13 AM
There are clearly two sides to this argument, and both are correct.
The difference is that one has a more "likeability" (or out of sight out of mind, if you will) about it and the other is distasteful.

Even though I physically and emotionally take care of my parents, they've been smart enough to manage their own finances in a way that there will be no financial burden upon me if/when the time comes when I can no longer give them or manage the kind of care that they need (medically).
I'm one of the lucky ones.

I find it hard to imagine other scenarios such as the ones mentioned here or the scenario where they just couldn't afford long term medical care (nursing home). What then?
May 10, 2011 8:13am
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

Senior Member

8,651 posts
May 10, 2011 8:47 AM
Con_Alma;763865 wrote:When unpaid debts are passed on in future costs or direct taxesthe government has a responsibility to step in on my behalf.

Why would you, or the government be responsible for paying your parents unpaid debts? Isn't that on the companies that loaned them the money?
May 10, 2011 8:47am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 10, 2011 8:50 AM
Yes. Notice the first part of my sentence that explained that unpaid debts are passed on in future costs.
May 10, 2011 8:50am
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
May 10, 2011 8:59 AM
Con_Alma;763862 wrote:Nowhere have I stated that anyone would be bad for not taking care of another. Nowhere.
Perhaps saying "bad person" was the wrong choice of words but your posts imply that taking care of him would be the right thing. Meaning I'd be in the wrong for not helping.
May 10, 2011 8:59am
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
May 10, 2011 9:05 AM
I am not making a right on wrong judgement on others. That's for them to discern. My opinion relates to my own view and approach to those affairs which I can affect.
May 10, 2011 9:05am
DeyDurkie5's avatar

DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
May 10, 2011 10:06 AM
Con_Alma;763863 wrote:Help me understand where the money comes from if it shouldn't come from other people?

it's their fault for fucking their life up and not saving up money, if their child doesn't want to take care of them then they are on the streets..isn't that what homeless people are now?
May 10, 2011 10:06am