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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 18, 2011 2:16pm
Columbus Dispatch says 'Yes on Issue 2' as well.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2011/10/17/state-issue-2.html?
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2011/10/17/state-issue-2.html?
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Oct 18, 2011 5:53pm
but it didnt. but way to spread more lies :thumbup:QuakerOats;937811 wrote:Because they didn't realize then that it would lead to fiscal destruction over the course of the next 25 years.
Now they know.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Oct 18, 2011 5:58pm
fail on the part of elected officials.QuakerOats;937815 wrote:Columbus Dispatch says 'Yes on Issue 2' as well.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2011/10/17/state-issue-2.html?
Elected officials should be in control of public expenditures. For the nearly three decades since the advent of Ohio’s extremely lopsided collective-bargaining law, elected officials have had too little control over the overwhelming majority of their budgets: salaries and benefits for public employees.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Oct 18, 2011 8:45pm
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/10/issue_2_opponents_unveil_study.html
Ohio's public workers have reduced personnel costs by more than $1 billion since 2008 through wage freezes, pay cuts and other concessions.
[Tuesday's report, called "Shared Sacrifices," shows that various public workers have agreed to concessions through the current collective bargaining process. Ohio taxpayers have saved $1.06 billion through these concessions since 2008, the report says, including a $350 million package of wage freezes, unpaid days off and increased health care costs state workers agreed to under former Democratic Gov. Ted Strickland.
Meanwhile, recent federal statistics show the compensation gap between public and private workers is narrow. Wages and benefits for public workers cost $40.40 per hour in June, according to statistics the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics released in September. At the same time, total compensation for private-sector workers at a company with 500 workers or more was $40.68, according to the bureau.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 19, 2011 10:16am
If it "didn't" we wouldn't be having this conversation. Nice try ....Glory Days;937960 wrote:but it didnt. but way to spread more lies :thumbup:
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
Oct 19, 2011 4:36pm
New poll is out. Guess there is going to be a few unhappy people on this site.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_OH_1019513.pdf
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_OH_1019513.pdf
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WebFire
Posts: 14,779
Oct 19, 2011 4:39pm
Even as a supporter, I have said all along it will get defeated.
ernest_t_bass
Posts: 24,984
Oct 19, 2011 5:03pm
Let's just wait until after the actual voting.Bigdogg;938906 wrote:New poll is out. Guess there is going to be a few unhappy people on this site.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_OH_1019513.pdf
Writerbuckeye
Posts: 4,745
Oct 19, 2011 5:47pm
As have I. Many of the lies touted by its supporters are too ingrained. Factor in the folks who will be voting their own pocketbooks and for those of their friends and families (many without really understanding the issue completely) and it doesn't have much chance.WebFire;938910 wrote:Even as a supporter, I have said all along it will get defeated.
I hope the Ohio General Assembly comes back after the vote and finds a way to implement some of these needed changes, hopefully with the cooperation of people now opposed to SB 5 but in favor of some of its elements.
The Plain Dealer editorial had it right: change may be scary, but doing the same thing we've been doing is even scarier.
BRF
Posts: 8,748
Oct 19, 2011 5:52pm
How about that ballot language that came out in the Akron Beacon Journal today? Whew.............mucho pages.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 21, 2011 10:01am
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/book-steve-jobs-annoyed-obama-during-meeting
"Jobs also criticized America's education system, saying it was "crippled by union work rules," noted Isaacson. "Until the teachers' unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform." Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year."
"Jobs also criticized America's education system, saying it was "crippled by union work rules," noted Isaacson. "Until the teachers' unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform." Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year."
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Al Bundy
Posts: 4,180
Oct 21, 2011 2:08pm
I don't see Ohio supporting the extra funding that would be needed to make that happen.QuakerOats;940597 wrote:http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/book-steve-jobs-annoyed-obama-during-meeting
"Jobs also criticized America's education system, saying it was "crippled by union work rules," noted Isaacson. "Until the teachers' unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform." Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year."
Thread Bomber
Posts: 1,851
Oct 22, 2011 6:53pm
http://www.youtube.com/user/StopIssue2?v=ZF0HlZkCqag&feature=pyv&ad=9325518415&kw=ohio house of representatives#p/a/u/0/07AFUJKxKd4
redstreak one
Posts: 1,152
Oct 22, 2011 8:48pm
There are several good things in SB5, however they rolled this out completely wrong. They went after the whole kit and kaboodle and vilifying the public sector workers. Then they sent out the olive branch of peace and wanted to talk! Kasich didnt want to talk and negotiate, he wanted to break the unions.
Now it might not pass because of this backlash!~
Now it might not pass because of this backlash!~
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wkfan
Posts: 1,641
Oct 24, 2011 10:18am
This can be done, and is being done, today regardless of SB5.QuakerOats;940597 wrote:Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit
Writerbuckeye
Posts: 4,745
Oct 24, 2011 11:49am
Agree it would have been better strategically to have offered a sit down first, but let's not forget that Democrats in the General Assembly pretty much threw their hands in the air and didn't even try to change much once things got rolling.redstreak one;941720 wrote:There are several good things in SB5, however they rolled this out completely wrong. They went after the whole kit and kaboodle and vilifying the public sector workers. Then they sent out the olive branch of peace and wanted to talk! Kasich didnt want to talk and negotiate, he wanted to break the unions.
Now it might not pass because of this backlash!~
Also, Kasich did reconsider and offer a sitdown -- at which time the unions had decided to go forward with the vote and make their power play, whether it was the best thing for their workers or the state as a whole.
If it does get defeated as I believe will happen, I really hope serious talks take place to try and implement some of its aspects. If we just let the status quo stay unchanged, we've done nothing to improve things and Ohio's economic environment will continue to decline.
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jmog
Posts: 6,567
Oct 24, 2011 12:26pm
Not true regardless of SB5. In most areas if layoffs come, they are forced by contract to allow "bumping" which means that in the end the teacher in the department(s) with the lowest amount of experience is layed off, regardless of which teacher is better.wkfan;943376 wrote:This can be done, and is being done, today regardless of SB5.
I know this for a fact in my area of Ohio, my school district alone had this happen last year.
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wkfan
Posts: 1,641
Oct 24, 2011 12:27pm
Firing and laying off are two entirely different things.jmog;943511 wrote:Not true regardless of SB5. In most areas if layoffs come, they are forced by contract to allow "bumping" which means that in the end the teacher in the department(s) with the lowest amount of experience is layed off, regardless of which teacher is better.
I know this for a fact in my area of Ohio, my school district alone had this happen last year.
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
Oct 24, 2011 1:29pm
Kasich caught spreading lies on FOX once again about how much public employees pay toward their health care benefits and pensions. On average, County and State workers pay 15% for their healthcare plans and 93% of public employees already pay for their own pension contribution with no pick up from their employers.
[video=youtube_share;m7lFen55Mlg][/video]
[video=youtube_share;m7lFen55Mlg][/video]
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Oct 24, 2011 2:44pm
it is also no surprise when hired as a public employee.jmog;943511 wrote:Not true regardless of SB5. In most areas if layoffs come, they are forced by contract to allow "bumping" which means that in the end the teacher in the department(s) with the lowest amount of experience is layed off, regardless of which teacher is better.
I know this for a fact in my area of Ohio, my school district alone had this happen last year.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 24, 2011 3:24pm
Just another example of the extent to which union 'leaders' will go to in lying about Issue 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=K0pHdffE4oE
It is desperation time for public sector union power, and they know it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=K0pHdffE4oE
It is desperation time for public sector union power, and they know it.
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Bigdogg
Posts: 1,429
Oct 24, 2011 4:11pm
You obviously know nothing about nurses. My wife is a surgical manager at at hospital. She has worked in a union and non union settings. By far the patient care is better in the union settings. Just one more example of you giving an uninformed opinion absent of facts. What about Kasich sitting there straight up fabricating lies?QuakerOats;943657 wrote:Just another example of the extent to which union 'leaders' will go to in lying about Issue 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=K0pHdffE4oE
It is desperation time for public sector union power, and they know it.
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Oct 24, 2011 4:24pm
Cite? Not taking her word, she can't do any better than you.Bigdogg;943746 wrote:You obviously know nothing about nurses. My wife is a surgical manager at at hospital. She has worked in a union and non union settings. By far the patient care is better in the union settings. Just one more example of you giving an uninformed opinion absent of facts. What about Kasich sitting there straight up fabricating lies?
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jmog
Posts: 6,567
Oct 24, 2011 4:29pm
Not totally separate to be honest.wkfan;943513 wrote:Firing and laying off are two entirely different things.
If it is ok for firing to be based on "merit" then why not layoffs based on "merit"?
I'm sorry, but if my school district has to layoff some teachers due to budget deficits I would rather them be able to keep the "best" teachers and layoff those that are not as good.
So you are still wrong.
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QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 24, 2011 4:48pm
What a load of bullsh!tBigdogg;943746 wrote:You obviously know nothing about nurses. My wife is a surgical manager at at hospital. She has worked in a union and non union settings. By far the patient care is better in the union settings. Just one more example of you giving an uninformed opinion absent of facts. What about Kasich sitting there straight up fabricating lies?