BGFalcons82;907058 wrote:And whom helped get the corrupt senators and public serv....excuse me HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH...ants elected? Could it possibly be union contributions? Having the ability to influence who sits across the negotiating table is also corruption.

what about all the non union contributions made?

It's Illinois and Chicago. That means one party controlled what happened: Democrats. And those Democrats were bought and sold with union dollars. That's how the game is played in most states where unions are powerful.

Hopefully, Ohio can step away from this trend and keep SB 5 on the books.

In a perfect world, Ohio would become a Right To Work state and unions would be an after thought.

Glory Days;907283 wrote:what about all the non union contributions made?

What is a "non-union" contribution? Over 75% of Americans don't belong to a union, so are you referring to individual Americans?

If so, does 75% of the population contribute to a political party as a bloc so as to select their negotiating partner in a non-union contract negotiation...whatever the hell that is.

BGFalcons82;907334 wrote:What is a "non-union" contribution? Over 75% of Americans don't belong to a union, so are you referring to individual Americans?

If so, does 75% of the population contribute to a political party as a bloc so as to select their negotiating partner in a non-union contract negotiation...whatever the hell that is.

i am talking about big businesses etc.

Glory Days;907374 wrote:i am talking about big businesses etc.

Like Solyndra, perhaps .......

QuakerOats;907768 wrote:Like Solyndra, perhaps .......

yeah that didnt workout too well haha. a lot of corruption there without union help.

Right to work(for free)...RTW states are no better off imo. Businesses basically pit states against each other to get tax breaks...give low paying jobs for a few years and then move to the next state.

Glory Days;907782 wrote:yeah that didnt workout too well haha. a lot of corruption there without union help.

Yes, but sponsored and administered by community organizer and union sympathizer types that permeate throughout the obama administration.

New poll: SB 5 supporters make gains among voters
By Darrel Rowland
The Columbus Dispatch Tuesday September 27, 2011 6:49 AM
Ohioans’ opposition to Senate Bill 5 has dropped from 24 points to 13 in the past two months, a new Quinnipiac Poll today shows.
“Backers of SB 5 have only six weeks to make up the difference, although public opinion appears to be moving in their direction,” said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, in a release.

I don't know if there's enough time between now and the election to counter the lies that are out there regarding this bill. Unfortunately, there are too many gullible people who have bought into the whole "attack on the middle class" nonsense -- not realizing it's the middle class that's truly getting the shaft when public unions have too much power.

Those polls clearly show the public wants public workers to pay more of their own insurance and pension costs, so if this bill goes down I can see the Ohio Legislature re-introducing legislation that focuses on those areas more.

Ohio Society of CPA's supports Issue 2 /SB5.

http://www.ohioscpa.com/developing-issues/issue-2

My problem with this bill is the same as day 1, it doesn't spell out exactly what will happen with merit pay! Get me those kind of details and I might support it. Keep them up the politicians sleeves until after the vote and I call shenanigans!

redstreak one;920898 wrote:My problem with this bill is the same as day 1, it doesn't spell out exactly what will happen with merit pay! Get me those kind of details and I might support it. Keep them up the politicians sleeves until after the vote and I call shenanigans!

What do you mean "what will happen with merit pay"? Do you know what merit pay is? It's based on a teachers performance in the classroom, period.

redstreak one;920898 wrote:My problem with this bill is the same as day 1, it doesn't spell out exactly what will happen with merit pay! Get me those kind of details and I might support it. Keep them up the politicians sleeves until after the vote and I call shenanigans!

Why does there need to be a statewide system for merit pay, or even a statewide standard? Let the individual boards of education, cities and every other government entity affected by this figure out a way that works for them and their budgets.

This should NOT be a cookie cutter process like now exists with union step increases, longevity pay, etc. It should be as unique as the cities and schools that are doing it.

In other words, there IS no plan for merit pay. You just say "merit pay" and that makes it good and right.

Merit pay is merit pay. There is no plan except for salary ranges for a given position. That's how the private sector works. Exactly what do you want defined?

sleeper;921080 wrote:What do you mean "what will happen with merit pay"? Do you know what merit pay is? It's based on a teachers performance in the classroom, period.

How will that performance be measured? There doesn't seem to be any plan in place.

Thise of you who want merit pay a well defined process apparently haven't worked in the private world much.

As an engineer I have yet to have a yearly appraisal with my boss that was NOT at least partly if not mostly subjective ratings from my boss. No set quantitative measuments to base raises and bonuses off of.

Goals are vague and ratings on those goals are subjective and I have been in the private world for about a decade.

jmog;921173 wrote:Thise of you who want merit pay a well defined process apparently haven't worked in the private world much.

As an engineer I have yet to have a yearly appraisal with my boss that was NOT at least partly if not mostly subjective ratings from my boss. No set quantitative measuments to base raises and bonuses off of.

Goals are vague and ratings on those goals are subjective and I have been in the private world for about a decade.

I am in the private sector too, but as a tax payer I want to know what the plan is even if it is subjective. There doesn't seem to be any plan in place.

Al Bundy;921176 wrote:I am in the private sector too, but as a tax payer I want to know what the plan is even if it is subjective. There doesn't seem to be any plan in place.

The plan should be determined by each school district, not as a state wide law.

Glad to see this issue on the ballot. Since I live in Texas currently, I may have to use that property in Vinton County I own....and dust off the absentee ballot.

BRF;921143 wrote:In other words, there IS no plan for merit pay. You just say "merit pay" and that makes it good and right.

Jesus, what are you scared of? Merit pay is simply an amount based on what the budget can afford and linked to a performance review by a supervisor. Have you never had a performance review? It isn't hard to come up with a system for rewarding those who meet certain goals and then do so as the budget allows.

Some of you people act like if there isn't something outlined from step A to Z that it isn't feasible. The private sector, which encompasses tens of millions of people, has been doing this without too many issues for decades.

As I said: let each individual entity (school board, city, county, whatever) come up with its own set of goals and standards to be used by supervisors, and then as each budget period allows, figure out who should be given a merit increase.

Not.
That.
Difficult.

And yes, there will be situations where a supervisor abuses their power over someone they don't like. However, most of the time the rest of the work force doesn't take to kindly to that sort of thing either so it isn't too common.

Al Bundy;921169 wrote:How will that performance be measured? There doesn't seem to be any plan in place.

There doesn't need to be a plan. Merit pay is merit pay. Is it always perfect? No. Does it seem to favor the good workers over the bad in the long run? Yes.

http://www.aproundtable.org/pdfs/faqonOH_SB5.pdf

Fact sheet.