Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Politics ▸ Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!
tsst_fballfan's avatar

tsst_fballfan

Senior Member

406 posts
Apr 4, 2011 2:06 PM
Glory Days;732399 wrote:When did I say they get promotions based on time in service? Even if a soldier never gets promoted ever, they still receive pay increases every 2 years.
This is not entirely correct. If a soldier never gets promoted they reach retention guidelines and are automatically discharged for not making rank.
Apr 4, 2011 2:06pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 4, 2011 5:37 PM
Glory Days;732355 wrote:I understand its not union. but the Federal deficit is that many times larger than Ohio’s, so imagine how much money would be saved if the military was paid on merit and not time in service.
And I addressed that I feel the military budget is way bloated, however, you continually stating how the military pays their personnel only supports my theory of keeping unions out of public sector. The military is able to get its members paid without the need of a union, so why should police and firefighters be different?

And as stated below, you don't just get pay increases by time in service, if you are not excelling and making rank, you reach retention guidelines. It is based on your merit that you get promoted, thus getting significant pay increases. This is how the public sector should operate. The overbloated federal deficit, mainly the military budget, is not overbloated solely because of personnel pay but defense contracts and spending projects.
tsst_fballfan;732437 wrote:This is not entirely correct. If a soldier never gets promoted they reach retention guidelines and are automatically discharged for not making rank.

This.
Apr 4, 2011 5:37pm
F

FALLSGUY

Junior Member

27 posts
Apr 4, 2011 5:55 PM
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS OR SB5! SUPERS AREN"T IN THE UNION! Figure out what you are talking about before you open your mouth!
Apr 4, 2011 5:55pm
F

FALLSGUY

Junior Member

27 posts
Apr 4, 2011 6:02 PM
Look,the people who hate unions are going to say what they are going to say no matter what anyone says. Its the same on the other side. The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining. It is not about saving taxpayer dollars. READ THE BILL. Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this.
Apr 4, 2011 6:02pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Apr 4, 2011 6:24 PM
FALLSGUY;732617 wrote:THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH UNIONS OR SB5! SUPERS AREN"T IN THE UNION! Figure out what you are talking about before you open your mouth!

I'd argue a superintendent's salary has everything to do with the EFFECT unions have had on all salaries within school districts. All of them are inflated for the areas in which they live -- and if you inflate those at the "bottom" of the salary structure, the inflation has to travel up the chain of command to keep things in "balance" between employees and their supervisors.

To argue that a superintendent or principal's pay has nothing to do with collective bargaining and the unions is being disingenuous at best.

And what's going on with SB5 has nothing to do with "hating" unions and more to do with believing unions have no place in the public sector. When FDR believes public unions are a bad thing, you need to listen. That man would have had unions in every other aspect of the American workforce. He understood that the economic pressures of collective bargaining in the public arena cannot be sustained by taxpayers.
Apr 4, 2011 6:24pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 4, 2011 7:49 PM
FALLSGUY;732620 wrote:Look,the people who hate unions are going to say what they are going to say no matter what anyone says. Its the same on the other side. The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining. It is not about saving taxpayer dollars. READ THE BILL. Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this.

Has anyone in this entire thread argued that SB5 ISN'T an attack on collective bargaining? I don't need to read the bill, I'm glad it passed.
Apr 4, 2011 7:49pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Apr 4, 2011 7:55 PM
FALLSGUY;732620 wrote: The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining.


Umm.... duh?
Apr 4, 2011 7:55pm
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Apr 4, 2011 8:07 PM
dwccrew;732610 wrote:And I addressed that I feel the military budget is way bloated, however, you continually stating how the military pays their personnel only supports my theory of keeping unions out of public sector. The military is able to get its members paid without the need of a union, so why should police and firefighters be different?

And as stated below, you don't just get pay increases by time in service, if you are not excelling and making rank, you reach retention guidelines. It is based on your merit that you get promoted, thus getting significant pay increases. This is how the public sector should operate. The overbloated federal deficit, mainly the military budget, is not overbloated solely because of personnel pay but defense contracts and spending projects.
The military doesn’t really have to appeal to the public either to get paid better the way police and fire departments do. And like you said, the tax base is larger, so the money will always be there for the military.
The public sector does operate by getting merit promotions in order to get the large pay increases. Problem is the departments are much smaller with much much less turnover than the military. I don’t know about you, but I never saw anyone not get promoted a few ranks eventually in the military.
Apr 4, 2011 8:07pm
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 4, 2011 10:29 PM
LJ;732687 wrote:Umm.... duh?

Lj with his typical whit. Nice contribution.
Apr 4, 2011 10:29pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Apr 4, 2011 10:35 PM
Bigdogg;732858 wrote:Lj with his typical whit. Nice contribution.

You mean "wit"?
Apr 4, 2011 10:35pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Apr 4, 2011 10:39 PM
"Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this."

Tell you what - I'm an idiot who can't read the bill (public school education) - why don't you explain how this has anything to do with transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires multi million dollar corporations, I want to know where to pick up my share.
Apr 4, 2011 10:39pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Apr 4, 2011 11:22 PM
Bigdogg;732858 wrote:Lj with his typical whit. Nice contribution.

A whit of wit is about all you have.
Apr 4, 2011 11:22pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Apr 4, 2011 11:51 PM
GUYS! GUYS! WATER IS WET! FIRE IS HOT! VEGETABLES ARE GOOD FOR YOU! AND SB5 IS AN ATTACK ON COLLECTIVE BARGAINING!!!!

Apr 4, 2011 11:51pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Apr 5, 2011 1:23 AM
FALLSGUY;732620 wrote:Look,the people who hate unions are going to say what they are going to say no matter what anyone says. Its the same on the other side. The people who have an open mind and can think on their own will realize that SAB 5 IS an attack on all collective bargaining. It is not about saving taxpayer dollars. READ THE BILL. Its about neutering unions in favor of transferring taxpayer dollars to millionaires and multi million dollar corporations. All of us who have incomes under $100,000 will pay for this.
Please explain the underlined portion. I fail to see how saving tax dollars is going to line the pockets of anyone but the taxpayers. I think if you are against SB5 you are attacking the middle class. I am middle class and SB5 is not effecting my job at all. Is anyone else here middle class? If so, please explain how SB5 is effecting you. And if it doesn effect you, try not to use the non-factual fear mongering tactics that the union has told you to believe.
Glory Days;732696 wrote:The military doesn’t really have to appeal to the public either to get paid better the way police and fire departments do. And like you said, the tax base is larger, so the money will always be there for the military.
The public sector does operate by getting merit promotions in order to get the large pay increases. Problem is the departments are much smaller with much much less turnover than the military. I don’t know about you, but I never saw anyone not get promoted a few ranks eventually in the military.

I actually knew of one person who did not get promoted ever and was eventually discharged. But this particular person had a lot of disciplinary problems. Had their been a union involved, he probably wouldn't have been discharged.

I don't disagree with every part of your opinion, but we do disagree on the important aspects of this bill.
Apr 5, 2011 1:23am
tsst_fballfan's avatar

tsst_fballfan

Senior Member

406 posts
Apr 5, 2011 7:51 AM
Private sector unions need neutered as well IMHO. Why should someone be FORCED to join a union and be FORCED to pay union extortion (dues) and be FORCED to abide by union contractual guidelines as a condition of employment if they do not want to join a union? :shrugs:
Apr 5, 2011 7:51am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Apr 5, 2011 8:33 AM
tsst_fballfan;733087 wrote:Private sector unions need neutered as well IMHO. Why should someone be FORCED to join a union and be FORCED to pay union extortion (dues) and be FORCED to abide by union contractual guidelines as a condition of employment if they do not want to join a union? :shrugs:

They shouldn't, plain and simple.
Apr 5, 2011 8:33am
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Apr 5, 2011 9:28 AM
LJ;732871 wrote:You mean "wit"?

As in you are a nit?
Apr 5, 2011 9:28am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Apr 5, 2011 9:31 AM
Bigdogg;733133 wrote:As in you are a nit?
Gibby throws a fit.
Many are full of shit.

I like to rhyme.
Apr 5, 2011 9:31am
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Apr 5, 2011 9:37 AM
From your article:

"I am a fiscal conservative and belong to the tea party," Ash wrote. "I am appalled that the OEA feels they can commandeer funds from my paycheck without my approval."

Every single union member should be appalled by this. People should be able to do this on a voluntary basis, not a mandatory basis. I can't imagine the gall that it would take to conceive that this is acceptable!
Apr 5, 2011 9:37am
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Apr 5, 2011 9:44 AM
Bigdogg;733133 wrote:As in you are a nit?

So you don't like what people have to say so you call them names? Nice.
Apr 5, 2011 9:44am
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Apr 5, 2011 10:24 AM

Nothing but pure bull-shit! I'm tired of paying fees. I like the protection that a union brings (not the protection of bad teachers, but protection from sticky situations, etc.), but I CANNOT stand the dues/fees we MUST pay.
Apr 5, 2011 10:24am
P

Prescott

Senior Member

2,569 posts
Apr 5, 2011 10:27 AM
Is anyone else here middle class?If so, please explain how SB5 is effecting you.
I'm in the middle class and SB5 has no direct effect on me. It will have a larger effect on me, if it is repealed.
Apr 5, 2011 10:27am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Apr 5, 2011 10:27 AM
ernest_t_bass;733190 wrote:Nothing but pure bull-shit! I'm tired of paying fees. I like the protection that a union brings (not the protection of bad teachers, but protection from sticky situations, etc.), but I CANNOT stand the dues/fees we MUST pay.
My wife shares this sentiment as a non-Union teacher.
Apr 5, 2011 10:27am