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Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Politics ▸ Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!
G

Gblock

Mar 2, 2011 12:21 PM
fan_from_texas;697266 wrote:Requiring filing on time with the appropriate signatures makes sense. That's a far cry from getting sued over typos. I'm not sure this is relevant to the discussion in this thread, but at any rate, I'm certain that people aren't losing lawsuits over IEP typos.



QUOTE]
in our meetings typos was one of the reasons given for schools in ohio losing cases as it showed a level of carelessness, but i have no data just what was told to me from the higher ups
Mar 2, 2011 12:21pm
S

stlouiedipalma

Senior Member

1,797 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:28 PM
WebFire;697245 wrote:Strongly disagree. That's like saying my IT salary at my FT job + coaching salary at the high school = my IT job salary.
l
Teachers have the option to get paid for other activities. That is separate compensation. For SB5 arguments, you can't lump it together.

To add to this, a lot of folks like to equate the huge salaries in teaching to the "short" hours they work. If you take on a lot of supplementals to bolster your income doesn't it also add to the hours you work? Some might want to use your W-2 to show you might make a lot of money, but that doesn't tell the whole story.
Mar 2, 2011 12:28pm
F

fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:29 PM
Gblock;697267 wrote:
fan_from_texas;697266 wrote:Requiring filing on time with the appropriate signatures makes sense. That's a far cry from getting sued over typos. I'm not sure this is relevant to the discussion in this thread, but at any rate, I'm certain that people aren't losing lawsuits over IEP typos.
in our meetings typos was one of the reasons given for schools in ohio losing cases as it showed a level of carelessness, but i have no data just what was told to me from the higher ups

I guess maybe it depends on the level of typos. If an IEP has lots of typos, then sure, it looks rushed/careless. But I can't imagine any educated professional putting something on paper that shows that level of lack of care--anyone at my workplace would be immediately fired if they sent something out the door like that. Generally, I think a ratio of 1 typo per 1,000 words is understandable in something semi-formal, but for something like an IEP, I can't imagine someone not proofreading it multiple times and eliminating all of the typos. It's mind-boggling to me that this would even be an issue.
Mar 2, 2011 12:29pm
F

fan_from_texas

Senior Member

2,693 posts
Mar 2, 2011 12:29 PM
stlouiedipalma;697276 wrote:To add to this, a lot of folks like to equate the huge salaries in teaching to the "short" hours they work. If you take on a lot of supplementals to bolster your income doesn't it aso add to the hours you work? Some might want to use your W-2 to show you might make a lot of money, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

That, of course, is a fair point. It's tough to compare apples-to-apples on these sorts of things.
Mar 2, 2011 12:29pm
G

Gblock

Mar 2, 2011 12:41 PM
fan_from_texas;697278 wrote:I guess maybe it depends on the level of typos. If an IEP has lots of typos, then sure, it looks rushed/careless. But I can't imagine any educated professional putting something on paper that shows that level of lack of care--anyone at my workplace would be immediately fired if they sent something out the door like that. Generally, I think a ratio of 1 typo per 1,000 words is understandable in something semi-formal, but for something like an IEP, I can't imagine someone not proofreading it multiple times and eliminating all of the typos. It's mind-boggling to me that this would even be an issue.
i was giving an explanation as a possible reason as to her pay being well over their max salary for a classroom teacher.
just trying to tell you the type of scrutiny now being put on these documents which are usually 15-30 pages. when i taught h.s. there was a woman who was responsible for examing each one. we probly had 8 teachers each doing about 22 ieps each. she got paid to show up in the summer and figure out all iep students...assign them to a teacher, notify the teacher of the date of each iep, attend the iep meetings and also teach her own classes.
Mar 2, 2011 12:41pm
redstreak one's avatar

redstreak one

Senior Member

1,152 posts
Mar 2, 2011 1:30 PM
^^^^ That leans more towards an Administration type position, IMO! lol

I put in around 60+ hours a week, but I teach, coordinate our online homeschooling, and the junior high and high school athletic director. I write IEP's for the online homeschooled students, coordinate with the jr high teachers who write the IEP's for the kids I have and do not have a secretary to help with the AD duties. Some weeks are close to 80+ hours depending on the season. My contract for AD is for 280 days, and let me just say the pay doesnt equal the work! lol

However, my W-2 looks pretty decent I guess, until you break it down!
Mar 2, 2011 1:30pm
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:14 PM
Con_Alma;697258 wrote:For SB5 arguments they are negotiated via collective bargaining and are addressed in the respective contracts.

Maybe they are, but you still can't say compare teacher salaries with supplementals added it. Like I said, if I make $50k at my FT job, and $5k at a part-time job, I still only make $50k at my FT job, not $55k.
Mar 2, 2011 2:14pm
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:16 PM
stlouiedipalma;697276 wrote:To add to this, a lot of folks like to equate the huge salaries in teaching to the "short" hours they work. If you take on a lot of supplementals to bolster your income doesn't it also add to the hours you work? Some might want to use your W-2 to show you might make a lot of money, but that doesn't tell the whole story.
Which is another reason you cannot add in supplementals to compare salaries or hours worked. You can only compare base teacher salary. Supplementals are separate, voluntary work, just like a PT job for a private worker.
Mar 2, 2011 2:16pm
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:29 PM
Look at all those losers not working and wearing hats inside.
Mar 2, 2011 2:29pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:30 PM
WebFire;697418 wrote:Which is another reason you cannot add in supplementals to compare salaries or hours worked. You can only compare base teacher salary. Supplementals are separate, voluntary work, just like a PT job for a private worker.

If it is for the same company it can be compared.
Mar 2, 2011 2:30pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:35 PM
bases_loaded;697443 wrote:Look at all those losers not working and wearing hats inside.

Losers..... wow man! They prolly taking the furlough(Unpaid Cost saving says) or it's there day off! Don't just speculate.
Mar 2, 2011 2:35pm
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 2, 2011 2:46 PM
They are in there because their union leader told them to...they will hoot and holler and boo.

Someone explain why we have/need unions these days.
Mar 2, 2011 2:46pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 2, 2011 3:27 PM
Current speaker is saying "the cost of government is the cost of labor".
Mar 2, 2011 3:27pm
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 2, 2011 3:32 PM
When it fails there will be protests and if it passes all the unions will tell us how great it is. Unions are the sorest of losers.
Mar 2, 2011 3:32pm
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Mar 2, 2011 4:38 PM
LJ;697447 wrote:If it is for the same company it can be compared.

I still disagree. If I am full time IT at $50k, and my boss offers me some after hours work painting the basement floor, my IT salary is still $50k.
Mar 2, 2011 4:38pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Mar 2, 2011 4:43 PM
WebFire;697574 wrote:I still disagree. If I am full time IT at $50k, and my boss offers me some after hours work painting the basement floor, my IT salary is still $50k.

That's your comparison? How lame.

True or not: just about every supplemental contract a teacher can get is for an activity that involves learning? Sports, year book, paper, plays. All related to what a teacher does best (supposedly), which is to teach and help kids learn. It's not in a classroom typically, but the basics of teaching and learning are the same.

Why you folks are splitting hairs on this is somewhat telling, I guess. You simply don't want your salary to look too high (whatever that is) so you're trying to keep it as low as possible.

It's lame, too, by the way.
Mar 2, 2011 4:43pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
Mar 2, 2011 4:44 PM
Bill passes, 17-16 in favor....If I heard correctly!
Mar 2, 2011 4:44pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Mar 2, 2011 4:47 PM
WebFire;697574 wrote:I still disagree. If I am full time IT at $50k, and my boss offers me some after hours work painting the basement floor, my IT salary is still $50k.

At least you get paid for doing extra responsibilities. In the real world, if you're boss tells you to do something that's outside your scope of work, you do it.

Teachers are spoiled. I hope the hammer comes down hard on these people, time for reality.
Mar 2, 2011 4:47pm
imex99's avatar

imex99

Senior Member

4,927 posts
Mar 2, 2011 5:52 PM
ProgressOhio
Voted Yes On SB 5? We Will Not Forget Or Forgive! #StandUpOh http://fb.me/GrmrxTcU

Mar 2, 2011 5:52pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

Senior Member

16,351 posts
Mar 2, 2011 6:03 PM
imex99;697695 wrote:


Congrats to these fine Americans!
Mar 2, 2011 6:03pm
tk421's avatar

tk421

Senior Member

8,500 posts
Mar 2, 2011 6:03 PM


No more collective bargaining. Whatever will we do? How shall we force our raises every year now?
Mar 2, 2011 6:03pm
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 2, 2011 6:05 PM
imex99;697695 wrote:ProgressOhio
Voted Yes On SB 5? We Will Not Forget Or Forgive! #StandUpOh http://fb.me/GrmrxTcU



Thank you for posting this...now I know who write emails to thanking them for not caving to union leaders. If you really wanna feel bad about yourself put it to vote for the public...it won't be a one vote margin
Mar 2, 2011 6:05pm
tk421's avatar

tk421

Senior Member

8,500 posts
Mar 2, 2011 6:08 PM
You really think the public is going to vote for allowing the unions to run over the taxpayers? 300,000 people are going to have special privileges and rights that the rest of Ohio doesn't have? I don't think so.

I wish they would do this in every state. What I really wish for is no unions in this country at all. They aren't needed and do nothing but line their own pockets.
Mar 2, 2011 6:08pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Mar 2, 2011 6:10 PM
I'm glad it passed. Now I would like to see how they are going to evaluate a pay scale based on merit. This is the next important step to saving Ohio.

To the teachers, welcome to the real world.
Mar 2, 2011 6:10pm