Glory Days;946609 wrote:no its not that only way, but the increases are much more with promotions obviously.

Sure, just like the private sector. But that doesn't really address the issue.

Footwedge;946321 wrote:I'm voting no big time. Teachers that excel at their work will also vote no. Unions today have an extremely easier life...in comparison to the private sector. Even the somewhat liberal USA Today wrote a headline piece confirming this fact of life.

Why should the private employees have to sweat their asses off...work 55 hours a week, also knowing that the company closing is an everyday possible reality? Yet, the public sector, which makes more money that their private sector collegues, don't have to do a damn thing other than show up for work in order to get paid.

lol, you do realize you just completely contradicted yourself right?

analogkid;946374 wrote:So the BLS says, "The average workweek for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls edged up by 0.1
hour over the month to 34.3 hours following a decrease of 0.1 hour in August." Not everyone in the private sector works long gruelling hours and 50 to 55 hours per week sounds about right for me as a teacher. I also assure you that if "I didn't do a damn thing other than show show up for work in order to get paid", I would not be employed for very long.

Then you don't need a union then if you are such a good employee.

I would love to only be working 50-55 hours a week...and get 2 months off in the summer...and get about 2 times as many holidays throughout the year...

Footwedge;946227 wrote:The bolded part here is absolute bull****..that's for sure. I've seen you fug up basic understandings on percentages on more than one occasion. Why do you feel the need to lie like that? What's it get you? This is an anonymous blog site. It does you no good to inflate yourself in such an irresponsible and deceptive way.

You have some really low self esteem issues there bud.

I highly doubt I "messed up basic understandings on percentages", but maybe its possible. I never said I have never made a mistake in math/science, I obviously did not score a 100% on each and every math class I took in college (plenty of high level math as I have both a BS in Math and my Chem Eng MS specialized in math modeling so I took all of the master's level math classes as well). However, I did not lie about the math, I did score perfect on the ACT, SAT, and GRE on the math/analytical sections.

I have no self esteem issues and am not "inflating" myself, just stating facts to someone whose argument was so bad they had to resort to personal attacks to try to substantiate their argument (aka ad hominem).

I just think it is hilarous that you have called me stupid, said I have low self esteem, and called me a liar all while I have yet to say anything bad about you...yet some how you still think you're winning the debate...ad hominem at its finest .

I'm voting Yes on Issue II go figure

Belly35;946665 wrote:I'm voting Yes on Issue II go figure

Congratulations on being one of the 32% of voters that are supporting it.:laugh:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1322.xml?ReleaseID=1665

Bigdogg;946759 wrote:Congratulations on being one of the 32% of voters that are supporting it.:laugh:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1322.xml?ReleaseID=1665

Hey, sometimes the minority is in the "right". Look how long something like a woman's right to vote was only views upon as the right thing to do by a minority of people .

Footwedge;946431 wrote:Oh bull. Teachers don't work 50-55 hour weeks...and you don't get fired unless you boink a student. How;s your 3.5 month summer vacation looking next year?

So I have spent about 11 hours at work today and as I look out into the teacher parking lot, I notice that fair number of cars are still here (say 20%). I can't say how much teachers work, in general, but it is longer than the contract day when you put it all together.

As to the rest, you are either exaggerating to make a point or are misinformed. Several years ago, I took over three classes for a teacher who got fired with 8 weeks left in the school year. He got fired because his students had lost all respect for him and walked all over him in class, not because of any illegal actions. He was a new teacher so the process happened very quickly. If he had tenure I am not sure how it would have ended. If the administration followed guidelines for evaluation and remediation, the end results should have been the same but it would have taken longer. I do agree that the tenure system needs to be reevaluated and probably eliminated.

As to the 3.5 months of vacation, our school year ends somewhere around June 10th and starts again around August 20th. That is closer to 2.5 months than 3.5 months. I also generally participate in 1 to 3 weeks of professional development over the summer and and work in the building preparing lesson 1 day a week throughout the summer. That still leaves a very generous summer vacation

I am trying to say that teachers are overworked and you should take pity on my poor tired self. I get it, many folks work longer and for more hours than I do. I am just trying to offset some of the exaggerations that are out there about the 7.5 hour work day and 3.5 months of vacation stuff that abounds.

jmog;946630 wrote:Then you don't need a union then if you are such a good employee.

I would love to only be working 50-55 hours a week...and get 2 months off in the summer...and get about 2 times as many holidays throughout the year...

I mostly agree with your first statement and yours Writer

I am pretty sure that the teaching profession would welcome someone with your background in the sciences and mathematics. I wish we could make it easier for folks to make teaching a second career but its not that difficult. Look into it. It is an amazing profession with rewards well beyond the hours and benefits.

LOL @ trying to justify the summer vacation by saying its "only" 2.5 months and not 3.5. Not to mention you get a thanksgiving break, a christmas break, an easter break, snow days, personal days, sicks days, other holidays, etc. It's a freaking cake job.

sleeper;947171 wrote:LOL @ trying to justify the summer vacation by saying its "only" 2.5 months and not 3.5. Not to mention you get a thanksgiving break, a christmas break, an easter break, snow days, personal days, sicks days, other holidays, etc. It's a freaking cake job.

Interesting enough neither the unions nor the teachers set their hours, our legislators in Columbus do. You got a beef with how short their work schedule is, vote out everyone in Columbus:rolleyes: Welcome to my side!

sleeper;947171 wrote:LOL @ trying to justify the summer vacation by saying its "only" 2.5 months and not 3.5. Not to mention you get a thanksgiving break, a christmas break, an easter break, snow days, personal days, sicks days, other holidays, etc. It's a freaking cake job.

I did not set out trying to justify anything sleeper. Notice that I did not say that it was "only" 2.5 months long (your word in quotes) and I did comment on how generous the vacation time is. I was simply correcting Footie's time line.

Nationally, 46% of all teachers leave the profession within their first 5 years (a statistic provide by the ODE during my last professional development). That statistic for teacher retention argues against your assertion "that it is a freaking cake job." I have served in the military and I have worked 80 hour weeks in the lab doing science that has been published in journals. For me, teaching, done well, is more complex and demanding than either of those endeavors. I come home tired. But, yes, I get a long summer break.

Instead of us peons arguing back and forth, we all should be focusing on the people that make......oh maybe more than $100,000 a year.........or perhaps more than a million a year? This is why SB5 will go down. The big money makers are taking it out on the under $100,000 dollar people.

The current running ad by Kasich saying something like "all we are asking is for the public sector to pay their fair share"............it's shameful and hypocritical.

End of rant for today.

BRF;947498 wrote:Instead of us peons arguing back and forth, we all should be focusing on the people that make......oh maybe more than $100,000 a year.........or perhaps more than a million a year? This is why SB5 will go down. The big money makers are taking it out on the under $100,000 dollar people.

The current running ad by Kasich saying something like "all we are asking is for the public sector to pay their fair share"............it's shameful and hypocritical.

End of rant for today.

Should this include teachers, too? There are about 20-40 teachers making that amount in most of the Columbus area districts annually. Yes, teachers. I'm not talking about administrators.

So should we be targeting any teacher who collects over $100,000 too?

Or perhaps we should talk about the tens of millions of dollars being poured into Ohio from out of state unions to pay for TV ads on this issue? Maybe we need to target those folks, since they've got so much money to throw around trying to sway an election that isn't even in their own state.

See, when you start playing the class warfare "game" you can come up with all kinds of angles to attack.

Here's a question for you people this morning: Do you have your blame strategery laid out once you finish shooting off your own foot and the layoffs start?

Just curious.

^^^A few property tax increases, additional school levies, and increased local sales taxes will insure all the unionized public employees will get to keep their good paying jobs and cushy benefits. Shouldn't be an issue.

fish82;947940 wrote:Here's a question for you people this morning: Do you have your blame strategery laid out once you finish shooting off your own foot and the layoffs start?

Just curious.

layoffs could/will happen if SB5 is approved too. whats your point?

I'm a product of the Union Teacher System, passed along "tracking" just so I could play sports and get me out of the school quickly as possible. Granted I was not an idea student and had a learning problem that the system never addressed nor attended to research.
I did have one or two teachers that did understand and worked on my behalf the others could have cared less. All they really cared about is that I made sure their cars where not victims of midnight auto supplies.
Graduated with a 1.9 +/- GPA, 8th grade reading / grammar level I’m just one of 100 that graduated with me from the inter-city public school system that did not reach their potential but put in our time along with the teachers. My success came from my drive to be someone … inspired by my mom not to live on welfare and entitlements. You get more what is worked for.. not given.

I have supported the school system with my taxes and school levies but now is a time to support "ME" ……. My taxes, My property, My grand children education, My future financial responsibilities, My local school system responsibilities.

Unions Teacher: The free lunch system is over, pay your share “spread the wealth” is that not what your Public Servant and Community Organize has been requesting. Does that only apply to others and not Union Teachers?

I’m vote YES on issue II and III

Belly35;947958 wrote:I'm a product of the Union Teacher System, passed along "tracking" just so I could play sports and get me out of the school quickly as possible. Granted I was not an idea student and had a learning problem that the system never addressed nor attended to research.
I did have one or two teachers that did understand and worked on my behalf the others could have cared less. All they really cared about is that I made sure their cars where not victims of midnight auto supplies.
Graduated with a 1.9 +/- GPA, 8th grade reading / grammar level I’m just one of 100 that graduated with me from the inter-city public school system that did not reach their potential but put in our time along with the teachers. My success came from my drive to be someone … inspired by my mom not to live on welfare and entitlements. You get more what is worked for.. not given.

I have supported the school system with my taxes and school levies but now is a time to support "ME" ……. My taxes, My property, My grand children education, My future financial responsibilities, My local school system responsibilities.

Unions Teacher: The free lunch system is over, pay your share “spread the wealth” is that not what your Public Servant and Community Organize has been requesting. Does that only apply to others and not Union Teachers?

I’m vote YES on issue II and III

its just my opinion, but with SB5, inner city teachers would be paid less, lowering the quality of the teaching(because its hard enough now to get good teachers in a shitty school system) and therefore more students being in a worse position than you.

Belly35;947958 wrote:I'm a product of the Union Teacher System, passed along "tracking" just so I could play sports and get me out of the school quickly as possible.

Do you realize that has nothing to do with unions, and really... nothing to do with teachers? Especially now-a-days. I am utterly amazed at how the ADMINISTRATION (who aren't in the teacher's union) will pass some kids, send them to alternative school, etc... BUT THEY WON'T LET THEM FAIL! You know why? It's all about NUMBERS. If a kid doesn't graduate, then that hurts the district's graduation rates. What you describe is 100% Admin.

analogkid;947139 wrote:I mostly agree with your first statement and yours Writer

I am pretty sure that the teaching profession would welcome someone with your background in the sciences and mathematics. I wish we could make it easier for folks to make teaching a second career but its not that difficult. Look into it. It is an amazing profession with rewards well beyond the hours and benefits.

If money was no issue, I would love to teach, shorter work years, shorter work weeks, etc.

Glory Days;947961 wrote:its just my opinion, but with SB5, inner city teachers would be paid less, lowering the quality of the teaching(because its hard enough now to get good teachers in a shitty school system) and therefore more students being in a worse position than you.

If inner city teachers get paid less, it would be due to:

a) School district not having the money to pay more, which is the whole point;

or

b) School district doesn't want to pay more, which would make that district a bad employer, and not the fault of SB5.

Belly35;947958 wrote:I have supported the school system with my taxes and school levies but now is a time to support "ME" ……. My taxes, My property, My grand children education, My future financial responsibilities,

finally someone who is honest about why they are supporting issue 2 without all the bs....nice job sir:thumbup:


and as far as levies and tax increases go guess what...Teachers pay the same increases you do

BRF;947498 wrote:Instead of us peons arguing back and forth, we all should be focusing on the people that make......oh maybe more than $100,000 a year.........or perhaps more than a million a year? This is why SB5 will go down. The big money makers are taking it out on the under $100,000 dollar people.

The current running ad by Kasich saying something like "all we are asking is for the public sector to pay their fair share"............it's shameful and hypocritical.

End of rant for today.

Oh my goodness, now you are truly a socialist...lets get those that make $100k a year!

$100k per year! Let's get those RICH BASTARDS!

I'm sick of people who do not understand that $100k/yr with a family is middle class for crying out loud.

$100k/yr actual bring home (after taxes, SS, state, local, medicare, etc) is around $60k/yr.

That is $5k/month.

Student Loans-$1000
House-$1200
Carsx2-$700
Utilities-$500
Groceries-$600
Charity-$850
Gasoline-$300

Ok, so monthly bills for this hypothetical person adds up to $5200 (roughly). Guess what gets chopped down to make budget? Charity giving goes first...

Lets not act like those making $100k with a family is banking huge amounts of cash, because they are probably just making their bills if they have student loans and a family.

Read and view the video the proof is in the documentation

Success in Wisconsin ...... saving to schools districts, lower class size, more teacher hired, budget balances and teachers pay less than the private sector per salary earned.

If you don't read or view the video don't comment mofo


http://www.publicsectorinc.com/forum/2011/10/hoping-ohio-follows-the-badger.html#trackbacks