dwccrew;814451 wrote:You don't really believe that public sector unionism is the only reason the state has gone bankrupt, do you? It has contributed to unsustainable debts, but it is not the sole reason.

When the unions are allowed to donate millions state-wide and billions country-wide in order to select their negotiating partners, then yes, it has contributed greatly to unsustainable debts. The owners, a/k/a the TAXPAYERS, have been unrepresented for far too long and it's nice to see politicians finally listening to us.

I'll be very surprised if SB 5 withstands a referendum vote -- if only because there are now too many people who will vote their pocketbook (or that of friends and family) before the best interest of the state.

If this happens, the real loser will continue to be the state in general...and especially our economy, which is already among the 5 worst in the country over the last 10 years or so.

Writerbuckeye;815059 wrote:I'll be very surprised if SB 5 withstands a referendum vote -- if only because there are now too many people who will vote their pocketbook (or that of friends and family) before the best interest of the state.

I dunno, Writer. I read where they collected 714,000 signatures. I think that will equate to 714,000 votes in November....not nearly enough to overturn SB5.

BGFalcons82;814952 wrote:The owners, a/k/a the TAXPAYERS, have been unrepresented for far too long and it's nice to see politicians finally listening to us.

In the case of teachers the will of the TAXPAYERS is represented through the passage of levies. Given the current climate, the teachers in my district have accepted a higher percentage on health care, a freeze in base pay, and brief hold on step increases. The idea is to push our next levy request back in time while maintaining high standards and preserving jobs. The district hopes to demonstrate an understanding of the difficult economic times as well as its commitment to fiscal responsibility and the teachers are on board. This type of give and take is not isolated to my district and seems to be a representation of the taxpayer's will, real or imagined. Its not just the politicians that are listening.

None of which would have likely happened w/o SB 5 passing. That has changed the culture quite a bit, from all the school board/teacher contract stories I've been able to read. Dynamics have changed.

SB5 certainly weighs upon the mind and contributes to the current dynamic.

1,298,301 That's how many signatures were turned in! A whole lot of pissed off people will be voting against King James.

[video]http://bcove.me/y7v4eh14[/video]

Before anyone dismisses the number of signatures collected, think about it. A lot of folks won't take the time or trouble to sign anything, much less a petition. Voting, however, is another matter. I look for a pretty close vote when this goes before the people.

stlouiedipalma;817894 wrote:Before anyone dismisses the number of signatures collected, think about it. A lot of folks won't take the time or trouble to sign anything, much less a petition. Voting, however, is another matter. I look for a pretty close vote when this goes before the people.

1. I heard there are 350,000 public union employees in Ohio. If they can get 2 or 3 relatives (spouse, child over 18, mom/pop, aunt/uncle, cousin, etc.) to sign the petition, then it's real easy to get to 1,298,301.

2. The music has been completely 1-sided since Kasich put ink to paper. Get ready for the backers to start playing their music a tad louder.

3. Passion is typically stronger when people are against something. The pro-SB 5 crowd will use this referendum vote to tell the taxpayers what they are against.

I agree, the vote will be close in November and turnout will be key.

So, on a referendum such as this, who loses when the weather is cold and rainy?

I always thought that bad weather kept the fence-sitters home. Hard to tell who would benefit from it though.

This pic was taken from my office today (some protesters)....

I wonder if these people had a parade permit or did their union buddies look the other way?

As for SB5, I am glad it is on the ballot and I hope both sides try to prove their case case without hyperbole and misinformation.

Prescott;818013 wrote:
.......and I hope both sides try to prove their case case without hyperbole and misinformation.

That's a good one!

Pretty impressive effort on the referendum petition drive!

Assuming SB5 goes down this fall, the first thing I'd do is pass a new bill requiring that all public union contracts be posted and voted on by the taxpayers before implementation...let the "let the people decide" mob munch on that one for a while.

Writerbuckeye;815059 wrote: If this happens, the real loser will continue to be the state in general...and especially our economy, which is already among the 5 worst in the country over the last 10 years or so.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/11/22/ohios-new-economy-rank-rises.html

Ohio's ranking of No. 25 is its best ever in the report. Ohio ranked 33rd in 1999, the first report; it was 27th in 2002, and 29th in 2007.

http://econpost.com/ohioeconomy/ohio-gdp-size-rank

The Ohio economy is ranked in the top 10 largest in the United States......The Ohio economy's ranking is the 8th largest in the United States, ahead of North Carolina and behind New Jersey......Coming in second with $54 billion, the government sector was responsible for 11.5% of the Ohio economy in 2008, however, in real terms, the government was responsible for 10% in 2008.Although the breakdown for the various governmental sectors are not yet available for 2008, the state government accounted for as much as 8.5% of the economy in 2007.

http://www.cantonrep.com/sb5/x977391160/INSIDE-SENATE-BILL-5-How-Starks-public-workers-would-be-affected


The analysis found that:

• Local governments, supported by taxpayers, could save $7 million a year in health care and pension costs under Senate Bill 5. Stark County school districts could save even more — $4.6 million from higher health care contributions and $6.2 million in pension savings — by shifting the costs to employees.

• Canton Local Schools stands to save the most in pension costs among school districts — nearly $900,000 a year. Canton City Schools could save more than $1 million a year if all employees paid 15 percent toward their health care.

• Taxpayers routinely have given area school superintendents and treasurers a free ride into their golden years. All Stark County school districts pick up the entire portion of their superintendents’ and treasurers’ pension contributions, which is equal to 10 percent of their pay. Teachers, bus drivers and aides are far more likely to contribute some of their own pay each year toward their future pensions.

• Most employees in Stark County’s public school districts pay 10 percent toward their health insurance premium. Administrators in the Sandy Valley Local School District contribute the least at 2 percent; Marlington Local’s teachers, custodians and food service workers pay the most, with a 12 percent contribution.

• Government workers in 18 of the 33 communities that provide employee health insurance contribute zero toward their health plans. County government workers contribute an average of $1,312 a year, or 9 percent, toward their health insurance. Four years ago, most workers contributed nothing.

• A typical Alliance patrolman would see his paycheck cut by $2,860 a year due to the higher contributions required by Senate Bill 5. A high school teacher in Jackson Local Schools would lose $2,816 in annual income.

• The savings obtained from higher employee health and pension contributions still would not completely offset the revenue that communities expect to lose from the state’s proposal to cut local government funds and eliminate the estate tax. Nor will it help school districts neutralize the loss of federal stimulus funding and cuts in state aid. Canton City and Plain Local schools would stand to lose more than $4 million over the two-year state budget, and 10 other districts would take a $1 million hit, even with the Senate Bill 5 savings.

Belly35;818541 wrote:http://www.cantonrep.com/sb5/x977391160/INSIDE-SENATE-BILL-5-How-Starks-public-workers-would-be-affected


The analysis found that:

• Local governments, supported by taxpayers, could save $7 million a year in health care and pension costs under Senate Bill 5. Stark County school districts could save even more — $4.6 million from higher health care contributions and $6.2 million in pension savings — by shifting the costs to employees.

• Canton Local Schools stands to save the most in pension costs among school districts — nearly $900,000 a year. Canton City Schools could save more than $1 million a year if all employees paid 15 percent toward their health care.

• Taxpayers routinely have given area school superintendents and treasurers a free ride into their golden years. All Stark County school districts pick up the entire portion of their superintendents’ and treasurers’ pension contributions, which is equal to 10 percent of their pay. Teachers, bus drivers and aides are far more likely to contribute some of their own pay each year toward their future pensions.

• Most employees in Stark County’s public school districts pay 10 percent toward their health insurance premium. Administrators in the Sandy Valley Local School District contribute the least at 2 percent; Marlington Local’s teachers, custodians and food service workers pay the most, with a 12 percent contribution.

• Government workers in 18 of the 33 communities that provide employee health insurance contribute zero toward their health plans. County government workers contribute an average of $1,312 a year, or 9 percent, toward their health insurance. Four years ago, most workers contributed nothing.

• A typical Alliance patrolman would see his paycheck cut by $2,860 a year due to the higher contributions required by Senate Bill 5. A high school teacher in Jackson Local Schools would lose $2,816 in annual income.

• The savings obtained from higher employee health and pension contributions still would not completely offset the revenue that communities expect to lose from the state’s proposal to cut local government funds and eliminate the estate tax. Nor will it help school districts neutralize the loss of federal stimulus funding and cuts in state aid. Canton City and Plain Local schools would stand to lose more than $4 million over the two-year state budget, and 10 other districts would take a $1 million hit, even with the Senate Bill 5 savings.

Most of these so called "facts" have already been debunked. I also assume you are purposely omitting the fact that school administrative staff are NOT in the union?

Glory Days;818523 wrote:http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/11/22/ohios-new-economy-rank-rises.html



http://econpost.com/ohioeconomy/ohio-gdp-size-rank

http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2010/07/26/daily23.html

http://www.bucyrustelegraphforum.com/article/20110627/NEWS01/106270311/Ohio-economy-tanking-trend?odyssey=nav|head

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/01/24/copy/demondrop.html?sid=101

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2740532/posts

Kasich asks teachers to design merit pay plan.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/07/13/teachers-to-design-merit-pay-plan.html?sid=101

Writerbuckeye;818708 wrote:http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2010/07/26/daily23.html

http://www.bucyrustelegraphforum.com/article/20110627/NEWS01/106270311/Ohio-economy-tanking-trend?odyssey=nav|head

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/01/24/copy/demondrop.html?sid=101

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2740532/posts

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/04/05/copy/savings-fostered-by-law-anything-but-a-sure-thing.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/02/28/john-kasichs-analysis-of-the-savings-on-sb-5-is-based-on-junk-science-and-faulty-math/

http://www.oxfordpress.com/news/oxford-news/educators-question-savings-from-sb-5-1141773.html?cxtype=rss_news_440804

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2011/04/kasich_administration_says_sen.html

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/education/entries/2011/04/22/bargaining_bill.html

I read the ABJ story on this today. So the plan is....there is no plan.

Teachers from other districts rating you?.....pfft!

is it me, or is Kasich continually trying to distance himself from this plan?

i think the only thing that matters in this whole thing is giving local governments the flexibility to deal with their budgets how they deem fit - if mansfield wants to lay off 3 firefighters because they don't need them and are in fiscal distress, they should be able to.

derek bomar;829388 wrote:i think the only thing that matters in this whole thing is giving local governments the flexibility to deal with their budgets how they deem fit - if mansfield wants to lay off 3 firefighters because they don't need them and are in fiscal distress, they should be able to.

huh? they do now. there are hundreds of laid off firefighters, police officers, and teachers all across the state right now.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/12/eveningnews/main20078915.shtml

"So far this year, Cleveland has laid off 321 employees to close a $35 million budget hole. And this city's not alone -- more than 460,000 state and local government jobs have been lost since June 2009.

Glory Days;829452 wrote:huh? they do now. there are hundreds of laid off firefighters, police officers, and teachers all across the state right now.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/12/eveningnews/main20078915.shtml

"So far this year, Cleveland has laid off 321 employees to close a $35 million budget hole. And this city's not alone -- more than 460,000 state and local government jobs have been lost since June 2009.

Except when there's a union, they don't get to decide WHO to lay off, now do they? Those with seniority can bump lower level employees, even if the fire department doesn't want to keep the older fireman because he's gotten lazy and doesn't do as good a job...or for some similar reason. Same with teachers. An excellent first-year teacher will be the first one out the door, even if they are far better at their job than someone else with seniority.