Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 2:52pm
LeBron is far above Kobe as an athlete.
Kobe is FAR above LeBron in terms of basketball skills.
IMO this is just like comparing Shaq and Tim Duncan.
Kobe is FAR above LeBron in terms of basketball skills.
IMO this is just like comparing Shaq and Tim Duncan.
dazedconfused
Posts: 2,662
Dec 4, 2009 3:19pm
i want rings...i don't care if lebron is ranked 467th
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 3:51pm
No help from Kobe
If LeBron James(notes) is looking for advice on how to play with Shaquille O’Neal(notes), he’d be wasting his time asking Kobe Bryant.
“I clearly know, but I’m not saying nothing,” Bryant said. “That’s something that I had to do.”
So what did you do?
“I figured it out,” Bryant said. “That’s something that [James] needs to do. I won’t give him advice.”
Did James call you for advice on O’Neal?
“I won’t give him none. I’ve given him enough already.”
If LeBron James(notes) is looking for advice on how to play with Shaquille O’Neal(notes), he’d be wasting his time asking Kobe Bryant.
“I clearly know, but I’m not saying nothing,” Bryant said. “That’s something that I had to do.”
So what did you do?
“I figured it out,” Bryant said. “That’s something that [James] needs to do. I won’t give him advice.”
Did James call you for advice on O’Neal?
“I won’t give him none. I’ve given him enough already.”
jpake1
Posts: 2,389
Dec 4, 2009 4:14pm
Shaq being on that list makes it a head scratcher. But I do agree with #1, hell, even the top 3.
hoops23
Posts: 15,696
Dec 4, 2009 5:00pm
lol what? LeBron has better vision, is the better playmaker, better rebounder, better 3 point shooter, and better defender than Kobe..Trueblue23 wrote: LeBron is far above Kobe as an athlete.
Kobe is FAR above LeBron in terms of basketball skills.
IMO this is just like comparing Shaq and Tim Duncan.
How exactly does Kobe have better "skills"? The only thing Kobe has on LeBron is his midrange game... That's it.
hoops23
Posts: 15,696
Dec 4, 2009 5:01pm
This is coming from the guy who wanted to keep Shaq over Kobe, lmao.. Blindness.JakeGiant wrote:royal_k wrote: The way I look at it is who would you build your team around if you were starting one.
Pretty simple....Lebron
If one wants to win really bad, it'd be Kobe. Four rings and him putting the USA on his back during the critical moments of Gold Game against Spain tells me as such.
Yep, I agree on better team player/leader as well.
royal_k
Posts: 4,423
Dec 4, 2009 5:16pm
Anyone that believes Kobe is a better team player and or leader has lost their mind, let alone credibility.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 5:56pm
SQ I'm not calling your bluff on that stat or anything, but do you have a link? If I remember correctly Melo leads in most of those crunch time stats, but I may be wrong.SQ_Crazies wrote:For the last 2 or 3 years LeBron has led the league in scoring in "crunch time" (last 4 minutes of the game). I also read a stat somewhere about game winning or tying shots and the percentages...MJ was something like 27%, Kobe and LeBron were both between 25 and 26%.gabuckeye wrote: I don't like the NBA, but watching Kobe in the Olympics would make me choose him, because he is a very clutch performer, and has proven that throughout his career. LeBron is not consistent enough yet in the crunch time to make me pick him as the number one player.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:00pm
Please don't think I'm "hating" or anything.. but IMO the skill thing isn't close. Kobe is one of the most skilled players in the history of the game. LeBron is not a better 3pt shooter than Kobe, and Kobe is a better on ball defender than LBJ. LBJ is easily a better weakside defender than Kobe. KB is averaging 2.3 steals and .2 blocks, while LeBron has averaged 1.3 steals and .7 blocks, which is somewhat evidence to show that LB is a better weakside defender.LTrain23 wrote:lol what? LeBron has better vision, is the better playmaker, better rebounder, better 3 point shooter, and better defender than Kobe..Trueblue23 wrote: LeBron is far above Kobe as an athlete.
Kobe is FAR above LeBron in terms of basketball skills.
IMO this is just like comparing Shaq and Tim Duncan.
How exactly does Kobe have better "skills"? The only thing Kobe has on LeBron is his midrange game... That's it.
I think of it this way.. when Shaq was overpowing defenders and backing them down, he dominated NOT because of skill, but because of physical strenghth. I think it's a similar case to LeBron getting to the rack so well.
I love this debate though, it's one of the best in sports.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:02pm
Eh, I can try to find it. Not going to be easy to find though--it was from sometime last season and it isn't a normal stat.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:04pm
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTMSQ_Crazies wrote: Eh, I can try to find it. Not going to be easy to find though--it was from sometime last season and it isn't a normal stat.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:06pm
TB--it is the best debate in sports because it's a legit debate, they're both among the best to ever play and they're playing at the same time.
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
There is what you're looking for--that's based on last season, 4th quarter or OT, 5 minutes left and neither team winning by 5 or more. Kobe comes in first in points per 48 minutes of clutch time (which is sort of a weird way to look at it, not to mention he played in 10 games more than LeBron that fell into this scenario). LeBron is second. We know how LeBron likes to spread the ball out and is often said to "always make the right play"--even in crunch time. So the most glaring stat to me that differentiates them, because the points per are seperated by .8 points (not much) is the FG% in these situations. LeBron's at 56%, Kobe's at 46%.
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM
There is what you're looking for--that's based on last season, 4th quarter or OT, 5 minutes left and neither team winning by 5 or more. Kobe comes in first in points per 48 minutes of clutch time (which is sort of a weird way to look at it, not to mention he played in 10 games more than LeBron that fell into this scenario). LeBron is second. We know how LeBron likes to spread the ball out and is often said to "always make the right play"--even in crunch time. So the most glaring stat to me that differentiates them, because the points per are seperated by .8 points (not much) is the FG% in these situations. LeBron's at 56%, Kobe's at 46%.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:07pm
That's weird.
But like I just explained--you have to look more into those numbers than just the points per 48 minutes of clutch time. I'm not trying to backtrack or anything, I'd look at that if LeBron was on top of that list as well--it's not like we didn't already know they'd both likely be in the top 3.
But like I just explained--you have to look more into those numbers than just the points per 48 minutes of clutch time. I'm not trying to backtrack or anything, I'd look at that if LeBron was on top of that list as well--it's not like we didn't already know they'd both likely be in the top 3.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:10pm
LeBron's stats per 48 minutes of clutch time:
55.9 points, 56% FG, 42% 3's, 85% FT, 14.3 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 1.7 blocks, 3.5 steals.
Kobe's:
56.7 points, 46% FG, 40% 3's, 92% FT, 8.4 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal.
LeBron also attempts 8 less FG's than Kobe per 48 minutes of clutch time.
I'll easily take LeBron as the more clutch player.
55.9 points, 56% FG, 42% 3's, 85% FT, 14.3 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 1.7 blocks, 3.5 steals.
Kobe's:
56.7 points, 46% FG, 40% 3's, 92% FT, 8.4 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal.
LeBron also attempts 8 less FG's than Kobe per 48 minutes of clutch time.
I'll easily take LeBron as the more clutch player.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:11pm
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:15pm
LeBron's team is better than anyone's when he's on the floor compared to off:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM
LeBron OWNS the #1 in Roland Ratings (his stat's vs. his counterpart's stats while on and off the court), no one is close:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ROLRTG8.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM
LeBron OWNS the #1 in Roland Ratings (his stat's vs. his counterpart's stats while on and off the court), no one is close:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ROLRTG8.HTM
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:15pm
And I'll take Kobe.. as would the majority of the NBA hahaSQ_Crazies wrote: LeBron's stats per 48 minutes of clutch time:
55.9 points, 56% FG, 42% 3's, 85% FT, 14.3 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 1.7 blocks, 3.5 steals.
Kobe's:
56.7 points, 46% FG, 40% 3's, 92% FT, 8.4 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal.
LeBron also attempts 8 less FG's than Kobe per 48 minutes of clutch time.
I'll easily take LeBron as the more clutch player.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:16pm
Mediocore stats IMO. Not Kobe's fault his team is stacked.SQ_Crazies wrote: LeBron's team is better than anyone's when he's on the floor compared to off:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM
LeBron OWNS the #1 in Roland Ratings (his stat's vs. his counterpart's stats while on and off the court), no one is close:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ROLRTG8.HTM
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Dec 4, 2009 6:16pm
All that matter...the MVPuppets are back!!!
http://inside.nike.com/blogs/nikebasketball/2009/12/04/mvpuppets-were-back
Pause the music on the left side and hit play.
http://inside.nike.com/blogs/nikebasketball/2009/12/04/mvpuppets-were-back
Pause the music on the left side and hit play.
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:18pm
Well they'd look stupid then wouldn't they? LeBron is clearly the more clutch player--the numbers aren't even close. The only reason most of the NBA would is because of all the game winning/tying shots Kobe has hit in his career. Like I said earlier, which is an article I can't find right now, the percentages are pretty close--they both shoot roughly 25% in that situation. But Kobe has many more examples because he's taken a hell of a lot more of those shots. I think being clutch in the last 5 minutes means a lot more than one shot anyways.
And you can call those mediocre stats, but the per 48 minutes of clutch time are far from mediocre. Those are legit right there and your man is FARRRRR behind.
And you can call those mediocre stats, but the per 48 minutes of clutch time are far from mediocre. Those are legit right there and your man is FARRRRR behind.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:18pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:22pm
Just wanted to post that again so it didn't get lost on the last pageSQ_Crazies wrote: LeBron's stats per 48 minutes of clutch time:
55.9 points, 56% FG, 42% 3's, 85% FT, 14.3 rebounds, 12.6 assists, 1.7 blocks, 3.5 steals.
Kobe's:
56.7 points, 46% FG, 40% 3's, 92% FT, 8.4 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal.
LeBron also attempts 8 less FG's than Kobe per 48 minutes of clutch time.
I'll easily take LeBron as the more clutch player.
8 less FG attempts as well, don't forget that--that's important. If he took 8 more, shooting his 56% his assist numbers would likely be down around Kobe's but his points would be way higher. But Kobe is the better clutch scorer....mhmm..
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:33pm
Feel how you will...
Atleast we all know the Lakers are the best team in the league
Atleast we all know the Lakers are the best team in the league
SQ_Crazies
Posts: 7,977
Dec 4, 2009 6:36pm
Well I won't debate that. They should be the best team in the league--I haven't seen a more stacked NBA team in my life as far as I can recall.
Trueblue23
Posts: 7,463
Dec 4, 2009 6:37pm
But but but.. the Cavs have Shaq and Mo!!SQ_Crazies wrote: Well I won't debate that. They should be the best team in the league--I haven't seen a more stacked NBA team in my life as far as I can recall.
Just givin ya a hard time man