As some one said earlier....'show me your papers.'

Geez...what are we becoming?
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/133428

Belly35;642580 wrote:But it is OK to scan and pat down citizen against their will... who the gulity one in that situation...

Haven't you seen my numerous posts against those scanners and methods?

Belly35;642572 wrote:It’s not that I want bigger government nor do I want more government control. If the Federal Government has the ability and a department establish that can be utilized for the security of the American people and the prevention of terrorist and illegal’s movement within the America, use that department to it fullest potential.

Why spend millions and million for TSA when the first step of limited terrorist travel has not been implemented.
What is the goal of Homeland Security and the TSA?

So if terrorists and illegals have fraudulent documentation, you don't think they can get fraudulent passports? Please Belly, tell me you are not this naive. I can't believe you of all people on here would think this is actually a good idea.

To fraudulent duplicate any document is easy give the proper equipment. Some document much easier than others. Driver license, birth certificates and SS card are some of the easiest. Remember that to receive a passport you have to have those legal documents with the legal registration numbers for each document. The document can be fraud so are the numbers, with a proper data base and technology linking those documents to the proper individual and numbers would provide additional prevention of identity thief.
The idea of the passport is the prevent of illegal and terrorist from getting them to travel easy within the United Sates. Harder to duplicate a passport the difficulties would be similar to duplicate money. My passport is read under a black light. I don’t know what information is provided under that black light and the code that is displayed but information is there. Will the illegal and terrorist try, it will happen I’m sure, will it be easy and successful not as much as a simple driver licenses.
Let me keep reminding some … this passport is not a “let me see your papers” when stopped by police, this is a document of proof and legality that permits you to travel.

Note: I made a career out of duplication of documents ….

Is this a good idea maybe / maybe not? If we are serious about the war on terrorist and the infiltration of illegal within our country should we not consider all the opinion for the security of the American people?

Many times the solution or part of the solution is already in place but is over look for a more grand idea.

Belly35;642580 wrote:But it is OK to scan and pat down citizen against their will... who the gulity one in that situation...

Against their will? Air travel is optional. If you want to fly you agree to go through a body scanner or be patted down. Besides, there's tons of studies that prove that body scanners are highly effective in preventing terrorism. Israel's been using them for years and hasn't had an attempted hijacking since they were implemented. We've had more airline terrorism than Israel has in the past 10 years. Just stop and think about that for a minute.

Besides, the guys who flew the planes into the Twin Towers had passports they had obtained legally in their home countries. Requiring every US citizen to have a passport to travel within the country creates way more problems than it solves. This is still one of the dumbest ideas I've read.

Belly35;643576 wrote:The idea of the passport is the prevent of illegal and terrorist from getting them to travel easy within the United Sates.

So we punish legal and law abiding U.S. citizens because of illegals and terrorists? Give in to the fear that terrorists want to invoke upon this country? Fearmongering is what gets people to come up with ideas such as this one.

Belly35;643576 wrote:
Let me keep reminding some … this passport is not a “let me see your papers” when stopped by police, this is a document of proof and legality that permits you to travel.

Why should we need documents that permit us to travel within the country? That takes away your freedom to travel. Once you are required to provide a passport just to travel within your own country, your freedoms have been chipped away. What is the point of citizenship then if you are treated like a foreigner in your country of residence?

Sorry, but there is many other ways to combat terrorism and illegal immigration without stripping freedoms away from law abiding US citizens.

Belly35;643576 wrote:Is this a good idea maybe / maybe not? If we are serious about the war on terrorist and the infiltration of illegal within our country should we not consider all the opinion for the security of the American people?

Many times the solution or part of the solution is already in place but is over look for a more grand idea.

Sure we should consider all ideas, but not at the expense of our freedoms should we implement any ideas that will inhibit or restrict our own personal liberties to combat those that we look to prevent from traveling or what have you.

Let's not forget what one of the fathers of this great nation said over 200 years ago, it still rings true.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin