LJ;984988 wrote:The S&L crisis had more external factors than deregulation, unlike the current crisis. The S&L crisis would have still happened. The current crisis could have been largely prevented had it not been for GLB.

There was a housing bubble in some sun belt states in particular but deregulation on the federal and state level much increased its extent and damage.

isadore;985014 wrote:There was a housing bubble in some sun belt states in particular but deregulation on the federal and state level much increased its extent and damage.

The housing bubble would hardly have existed if banks wouldn't have been able to bundle the bad loans and dump them as good MBS. It would have worked itself out as builders had already slowed way down in the early 2000's.

QuakerOats;985009 wrote:Please enlighten us further by elaborating on Lehman Brothers; what specifically was "criminal" about their business? What value did they provide to markets? What benefit or cost has accrued due to their absence? Why were they allowed to go bust, when shortly beforehand another entity was saved? Was Kasich's low level manager position at their Columbus satellite branch office significant? What does it have to do with unaffordable and unsustainable compensation packages wrought by public sector bargaining forced upon Ohioans beginning in 1983?

Then compare and contrast all of that with CRA, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the fraudulent cooking of their books by Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick who then pocketed over $200 million in illegal bonuses paid for by the taxpayers, Sarbanes Oxley, and lastly Dodd-Frank: the Housing and Jobs Destruction Act.

Of course, you will have to take off the blinders, abandon the special interest union talking points, and gain a lot of understanding. Good luck.

They used accounting tricks to hide their shaky financial situation. It knowing in complicity with the other banking houses pushed toxic assets on its customers, hidden by the false reports of Moodys and Standard and Poors. The fact that other criminal enterprises were saved while Lehman collapsed in no way excuses any of them, they were crooks. John Kasich was a regional managing director richly rewarded with hundreds of thousands of dollars of bonuses. A person at that level is either complicit or knowingly feigning ignorance. He acted as a go between in trying to pass those toxic assets on to Ohio pension funds.
Investments of that type helped to endanger those funds. The economic collapse brought on by Lehman and other financial house actions brought on our recession and deprived governments of needed revenue. Tax cuts by Kasich furthered deprived them.
If there is a financial crisis at the state level he played a major role in creating it. Public workers have been responsible in their actions at this time of crisis, forgoing pay and benefit increases while our governor has been trying to deprive them of their right to organize. If we only had recall.

LJ;985024 wrote:The housing bubble would hardly have existed if banks wouldn't have been able to bundle the bad loans and dump them as good MBS. It would have worked itself out as builders had already slowed way down in the early 2000's.

LJ in the above comment to you I was not talking about the housing bubble of the 2000s but the one of the 1980s that produced the S and L crisis.

isadore;985043 wrote:LJ in the above comment to you I was not talking about the housing bubble of the 2000s but the one of the 1980s that produced the S and L crisis.

Well that bubble was mainly from interest rates plummeting. Housing was stagnent for so many years.

QuakerOats;984884 wrote:You can keep up the mantra but the facts are: Kasich in no way blamed our woes on public workers. The blame was accurately placed on the growth of government, and the allowance of a third party special interest group to seize unaffordable and unsustainable compensation packages.

In the end, what Kasich should have simply repeated over and over and over was this:

We can either move forward with the necessary changes passed by the legislature, or we will issue wage and benefit checks in the future that will bounce. Pick one.

Growth in Government? What growth? You do understand that government jobs in Ohio have been shrinking for the past few years right? I thought you were better informed than that.

http://www.urbanacitizen.com/main.asp?SectionID=3&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=158280&TM=63790.72

QuakerOats;984877 wrote:As usual, you cannot dispute the content of what I wrote.

You are right. I can't dispute your lack of facts or your opinion

LJ;985055 wrote:Well that bubble was mainly from interest rates plummeting. Housing was stagnent for so many years.

but the savings and loans would not have been so deeply committed if not for the deregulation at the federal and state level.

isadore;985073 wrote:but the savings and loans would not have been so deeply committed if not for the deregulation at the federal and state level.

We have had consistently more and more and more regulations at all government levels; much of it led to today's problems. And as government intervention and interference into free markets has ballooned, so to have the schockwaves which result from distortions created by, guess who ...... the government.

Only a fool would allow those who have created the distortions (the government) to then pass even more legislation to supposedly correct the problems ---- how ridiculous is that. We need to blow the government up and get back to truly free markets.

Abe Vigoda;985071 wrote:You are right. I can't dispute your lack of facts or your opinion

I figured as much.

QuakerOats;985106 wrote:We have had consistently more and more and more regulations at all government levels; much of it led to today's problems. And as government intervention and interference into free markets has ballooned, so to have the schockwaves which result from distortions created by, guess who ...... the government.

Only a fool would allow those who have created the distortions (the government) to then pass even more legislation to supposedly correct the problems ---- how ridiculous is that. We need to blow the government up and get back to truly free markets.

Oh gosh if we could only return to those halcyon days of yesteryear. We had 72 hour workweeks and no minimum wage, 6 year olds in factories, no safety protection or compensation for workers. When banks went under no protections for the depositors as in 1929. Now with the repeal of banking regulations we get to see what we were protected from for 3 generations. I know this is tea party rhetoric but after Tim McVeigh and Oklahoma City, I dont think this is the best choice of terms, "We need to blow the government up."

isadore;985178 wrote:Oh gosh if we could only return to those halcyon days of yesteryear. We had 72 hour workweeks and no minimum wage, 6 year olds in factories, no safety protection or compensation for workers. When banks went under no protections for the depositors as in 1929. Now with the repeal of banking regulations we get to see what we were protected from for 3 generations. I know this is tea party rhetoric but after Tim McVeigh and Oklahoma City, I dont think this is the best choice of terms, "We need to blow the government up."

Yeah, that's what the SB5 bill was about ---- a return to sweatshops, overturning Wage & Hour, and general lawlessness. Keep drinking the kool aid; you are a fabulous spokesperson for public sector union greed. BTW, is your conscience ever bothered by the fact that your greed continues to break the backs of middle class taxpayers?

QuakerOats;985231 wrote:Yeah, that's what the SB5 bill was about ---- a return to sweatshops, overturning Wage & Hour, and general lawlessness. Keep drinking the kool aid; you are a fabulous spokesperson for public sector union greed. BTW, is your conscience ever bothered by the fact that your greed continues to break the backs of middle class taxpayers?

The only thing breaking backs is unregulated, big business, and politicians lining their own pockets.

Abe Vigoda;985263 wrote:The only thing breaking backs is unregulated, big business, and politicians lining their own pockets.

They are anything but "unregulated", which is precisely why they have fled this country en masse. The government has regulated most industries directly out of business; of course, those under the spell of public sector union monopolies would have no idea of that. The bottom line is, public sector compensation packages are at 1.4 times that of the private sector, and that formula has broken the backs of middle class taxpayers. Not sure how you can sleep at night.

QuakerOats;985231 wrote:Yeah, that's what the SB5 bill was about ---- a return to sweatshops, overturning Wage & Hour, and general lawlessness. Keep drinking the kool aid; you are a fabulous spokesperson for public sector union greed. BTW, is your conscience ever bothered by the fact that your greed continues to break the backs of middle class taxpayers?

No my comment to you had to do what happened in the 19th and early 20th century with unregulated capitalism. It produced untold suffering for the workers and families. It is a fact that you chose to ignore. Gosh I see all these government workers who happened to be part of that middle class you supposedly have sympathy. These people despite the efforts of corporationists have kept their right to negotiate.

It has been free market capitalism that has created enormous amounts of wealth and lifted entire societies out of the depths of real poverty. It has been the greatest solution to the human condition in all of history. But your side is sure doing a good job destroying all that it created. Fu#$ing incredible.

QuakerOats;985272 wrote:They are anything but "unregulated", which is precisely why they have fled this country en masse. The government has regulated most industries directly out of business; of course, those under the spell of public sector union monopolies would have no idea of that. The bottom line is, public sector compensation packages are at 1.4 times that of the private sector, and that formula has broken the backs of middle class taxpayers. Not sure how you can sleep at night.

it would be nice if you actually gave a source for a little statistic. This study refutes it.
The analysis finds that:
Public and private workforces differ in important • ways. For instance, jobs in the public sector require much more education on average than those in the private sector. Employees in state and local sectors are twice as likely as their private sector counterparts to have a college or advanced degree.
Wages and salaries of state and local employees are • lower than those for private sector workers with comparable earnings determinants (e.g., education). State employees typically earn 11 percent less; local workers earn 12 percent less.
Over the last 20 years, the earnings for state and • local employees have generally declined relative to comparable private sector employees.
The pattern of declining relative compensation • remains true in most of the large states we examined, although some state-level variation exists.
Benefits (e.g., pensions) comprise a greater share of • employee compensation in the public sector.
State and local employees have lower total • compensation than their private sector counterparts. On average, total compensation is 6.8 percent lower for state employees and 7.4 percent lower for local workers, compared with comparable private sector employees.

http://www.slge.org/vertical/Sites/%7BA260E1DF-5AEE-459D-84C4-876EFE1E4032%7D/uploads/%7B03E820E8-F0F9-472F-98E2-F0AE1166D116%7D.PDF

QuakerOats;985318 wrote:It has been free market capitalism that has created enormous amounts of wealth and lifted entire societies out of the depths of real poverty. It has been the greatest solution to the human condition in all of history. But your side is sure doing a good job destroying all that it created. Fu#$ing incredible.

Unions and regulation provided the basis for raising a true middle class in America after capitalism economic collapse in 1929. And now as the greedy are allowed to operate with little encumberance we see its effects. Basic signs of unrestricted capitalism, frequent economic collapses, maldistribution of income and decreasing social mobility.

isadore;985335 wrote:Unions and regulation provided the basis for raising a true middle class in America after capitalism economic collapse in 1929. And now as the greedy are allowed to operate with little encumberance we see its effects. Basic signs of unrestricted capitalism, frequent economic collapses, maldistribution of income and decreasing social mobility.

Unions and over-regulation have provided the basis for mass evaporation of American manufacturing jobs overseas and have contributed greatly to the economic malaise of 2011. And now the effects of unionism, socialism and forced wealth redistribution have combined to plunge the worldwide economy and hundreds of millions of people into a funk we haven't seen since the Great Depression.

As long as corporations are permitted to exploit the resources of other nations without any regulations and paying slave labor wages, they will continue to do so. In time what you will see is a return of the labor movement until the corporations find somewhere else to exploit.

believer;985822 wrote:Unions and over-regulation have provided the basis for mass evaporation of American manufacturing jobs overseas and have contributed greatly to the economic malaise of 2011. And now the effects of unionism, socialism and forced wealth redistribution have combined to plunge the worldwide economy and hundreds of millions of people into a funk we haven't seen since the Great Depression.

Deregulation of the financial industry is the basis for the present economic collapse. Lack of a national economic policy similar to Germany's contributes to the loss of jobs even as the productivity of American workers grows.
The efforts of union have helped provide the safety net that makes our present situation better than that found in the great depression with social security, unemployment benefits and other protections mitigating the situation.

Those "protections" are broke; socialism NEVER works because you always run out of other people's money. Are you using a laptop from one of the Occupy sites, or are you just a radical marxist holed up in a university?

isadore;985918 wrote:Deregulation of the financial industry is the basis for the present economic collapse. Lack of a national economic policy similar to Germany's contributes to the loss of jobs even as the productivity of American workers grows.
The efforts of union have helped provide the safety net that makes our present situation better than that found in the great depression with social security, unemployment benefits and other protections mitigating the situation.

The problem wasn't deregulation, the problem is we bailed out these companies in the first place. Let them fail, and the market fixes itself.

QuakerOats;991122 wrote:Those "protections" are broke; socialism NEVER works because you always run out of other people's money. Are you using a laptop from one of the Occupy sites, or are you just a radical marxist holed up in a university?

I like that vision of myself with my laptop fighting for the 99%. But no, just part of the civilian labor force who hopes that we keep those protections so that the lives of working people in America will not be brutish and short.

sleeper;991124 wrote:The problem wasn't deregulation, the problem is we bailed out these companies in the first place. Let them fail, and the market fixes itself.

The problem was brought on by the deregulation of the banking industry, the movement toward a more unregulated market produced enormous suffering.