im surprised people arent more concerned with the amount of public money that he wants to funnel to charter schools who at this point in time do not have to open their books and show how they spent it.

Writerbuckeye;953326 wrote:A laughingstock where -- on forums like Daily Kos or fake sites like Plunderbutt? Please.

Every major newspaper in the state just endorsed what Kasich is trying to do, including a number that are so traditionally Democrat they almost never agree with what Republicans want to do in Ohio.

If he were a "laughingstock" that wouldn't be happening.



Your hyperbole is just that.

This is the second most absurd thing I heard today. The first was a state Representative comparing Kasich to Ronald Reagan as a visionary. Of course then he followed it up with saying he and Kasich was a personal friend to Buz Lukens and Buz was their mentor. I about spit my drink out on that one.

No idea what you believe is absurd (and don't really care) but the fact is that most of the bigger community movers and shakers believe Kasich is on the right path to turning things around. Whether he succeeds or not will depend on how much people really want to change, or whether they're stuck in the same failed system.

Writerbuckeye;954200 wrote:No idea what you believe is absurd (and don't really care) but the fact is that most of the bigger community movers and shakers believe Kasich is on the right path to turning things around. Whether he succeeds or not will depend on how much people really want to change, or whether they're stuck in the same failed system.

change??i lol at this...no matter what happens w/ senate bill 5 our state is in serious trouble...getting rid of unioins while it may save a few tax dollars, isnt going to help any workers in ohio. it is only going to further deteriorate the level of pay/benefits of all jobs in our state. if in fact it is true that public workers make more than private sector peers, guess what it wont be long before kasich gets after you too. no way this is good for our state. ur a fool if you think he cares about ohio. in a few years he will have a kushy job working for one of these private companies that he helped clear the way to get our public funds funneled tol. he has already allowed 1.7 billion dollars of public money go to charter schools that is unaccounted for...even when it is proven that most of these schools are ineffective.

there is a school by mine that is luring students by giving them ipads to come there. we went over there one day and asked for a tour....in three of the five classes i went to the students were in class playing computer flash games on their ipads and the teachers, who i seriously doubt were certified based on several factors including their clothing(baggy jeans, oversized shirts) or lack of speaking english were mostly just hanging out and reading the paper. they are getting between 8-11 thousand per student and i bet most of it is going in the pocket of the businessman who started it. why would you want someone to profit off of your tax dollars? to me all schools that get public money should be non profit. every dollar you get from the tax payer should go to the students. they are probably laughing alll the way to the bank as gov. k keeps people distracted w public schools as they line their pockets with your money and have it set up to get more. with very little accountablility. he even tried to pass legislation to further limit accountablilty for charter schools. bunch a sheep open your eyes.

hope that helps

Gblock;954539 wrote:change??i lol at this...no matter what happens w/ senate bill 5 our state is in serious trouble...getting rid of unioins while it may save a few tax dollars, isnt going to help any workers in ohio. it is only going to further deteriorate the level of pay/benefits of all jobs in our state. if in fact it is true that public workers make more than private sector peers, guess what it wont be long before kasich gets after you too. no way this is good for our state. ur a fool if you think he cares about ohio. in a few years he will have a kushy job working for one of these private companies that he helped clear the way to get our public funds funneled tol. he has already allowed 1.7 billion dollars of public money go to charter schools that is unaccounted for...even when it is proven that most of these schools are ineffective.

there is a school by mine that is luring students by giving them ipads to come there. we went over there one day and asked for a tour....in three of the five classes i went to the students were in class playing computer flash games on their ipads and the teachers, who i seriously doubt were certified based on several factors including their clothing(baggy jeans, oversized shirts) or lack of speaking english were mostly just hanging out and reading the paper. they are getting between 8-11 thousand per student and i bet most of it is going in the pocket of the businessman who started it. why would you want someone to profit off of your tax dollars? to me all schools that get public money should be non profit. every dollar you get from the tax payer should go to the students. they are probably laughing alll the way to the bank as gov. k keeps people distracted w public schools as they line their pockets with your money and have it set up to get more. with very little accountablility. he even tried to pass legislation to further limit accountablilty for charter schools. bunch a sheep open your eyes.

hope that helps

This post got me banned from this thread for 2 weeks because I didn't stop attacking Writer when told to

"...change??i lol at this...no matter what happens w/ senate bill 5 our state is in serious trouble...getting rid of unioins while it may save a few tax dollars, isnt going to help any workers in ohio...."

Maybe that's because the bill wasn't designed to help workers, at lest I hope it wasn't.

The bill isn't about workers. It's about taxpayers.

Con_Alma;954833 wrote:"...change??i lol at this...no matter what happens w/ senate bill 5 our state is in serious trouble...getting rid of unioins while it may save a few tax dollars, isnt going to help any workers in ohio...."

Maybe that's because the bill wasn't designed to help workers, at lest I hope it wasn't.

The bill isn't about workers. It's about taxpayers.

taxpayers dont work?

Yes, but that doesn't change the point of my comment.

I rephrase for you. The bill is about the consistently shrinking amount of tax revenue and seeks to provid more flexibility to match expenses with the amount of taxes taxpayers are willing to pay in any given year, six month period or quarter.

If "workers" rely on the government to "help" in the future, meaning they know they will not be able to provide the same value as currently or in the past, then they are already in trouble. A union won't help them for the need for their services will continue to plummet.


I beg the State, please, please don't try and help me as a worker. You'll screw it up. I'll take care of it myself.

The bill is about taxpaying not vocational status.

Con_Alma;954852 wrote:Yes, but that doesn't change the point of my comment.

I rephrase for you. The bill is about the consistently shrinking amount of tax revenue and seeks to provid more flexibility to match expenses with the amount of taxes taxpayers are willing to pay in any given year, six month period or quarter.

If "workers" rely on the government to "help" in the future, meaning they know they will not be able to provide the same value as currently or in the past, then they are already in trouble. A union won't help them for the need for their services will continue to plummet.


I beg the State, please, please don't try and help me as a worker. You'll screw it up. I'll take care of it myself.

The bill is about taxpaying not vocational status.

that has nothing to do with the point i was making about other potential effects besides paying less taxes...

Gblock;954891 wrote:that has nothing to do with the point i was making about other potential effects besides paying less taxes...

Yes, I understand. I was adding on to that point not disputing it.

The bill being about taxpayers not workers is an additional point added on to your comments that getting rid of unions isn't going to help workers.

Con_Alma;954833 wrote:"

Maybe that's because the bill wasn't designed to help workers, at lest I hope it wasn't.

QUOTE]

well i think that any bill that is bad for workers(public and private) cant be good for taxpayers in the long run as they are the same people..we will see i guess depending on how much is saved and how much in quality of service or workers is sacrificed over time. often i have found that when i have tried to save on anything i usually end up wishing i had went with the higher quality product or service.

1. Issue 2 isn't going to pass.

2. It isn't about saving money as much as it is about better being able to spend in concert with what is made available to them.

3. quality of service will be impacted either way...pass or not pass. The same amount of money will come in if the Issue passes or doesn't. If it doesn't pass it will simply take longer to rid employment expenses.

Con_Alma;954917 wrote:1. Issue 2 isn't going to pass.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Here is a poll that has it 37-25 which means an enormous number of people are either still undecided or are probably in favor of Issue 2 but are not public about it. http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/ohiopolitics/entries/2011/10/28/new_poll_shows_issue_2_opposed.html

There have been 2 other ballot measures that trailed by this amount in recent years, but on election day flipped by over 20 percentage points.

even if it doesnt i expect the same bill with a new name in a year or so

Gblock;954989 wrote:even if it doesnt i expect the same bill with a new name in a year or so

Me too. I thought I read somewhere there are 2 other bills already with sponsors that have differing language and key points that they are waiting to see if they will need to introduce.

One way or another, expenses must match revenue. If that means having fewer employees making a certain compensation package the total service output will be reduced.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/27/1030642/-Issue-2:-Labor-backed-group-says-polls-overstate-chances-of-victory-on-Ohioinitiative

QuakerOats;954981 wrote:I wouldn't be so sure of that. Here is a poll that has it 37-25 which means an enormous number of people are either still undecided or are probably in favor of Issue 2 but are not public about it. http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/ohiopolitics/entries/2011/10/28/new_poll_shows_issue_2_opposed.html

There have been 2 other ballot measures that trailed by this amount in recent years, but on election day flipped by over 20 percentage points.

This report is based on the 2011 Fall Akron Buckeye Poll, a telephone survey of a random sample of registered voters in Ohio, with a cell phone component. The survey was conducted between October 11 and October 23, 2011 by the Center for Marketing and Opinion Research, LLC of Canton, Ohio. The number of respondents was 602 and the overall margin of error is plus or minus 4 percentage points. Smaller subsamples have higher margins of error. The data are weighted by demography to reflect 2010 U.S. Census data in Ohio; the unweighted results are very similar to weighted results.

Not a big fan of telephone polls, lots of invalid data. No doubt it will get close before next week. I am wondering why there is no discussion here on issue three. Every newspaper in Ohio is against it. Strangely enough our moderator on here never approved my post about it. Yes he is the little man he thinks he is.

https://www.uakron.edu/dotAsset/2268451.pdf

Bigdogg;955298 wrote:Not a big fan of telephone polls, lots of invalid data. No doubt it will get close before next week. I am wondering why there is no discussion here on issue three. Every newspaper in Ohio is against it. Strangely enough our moderator on here never approved my post about it. Yes he is the little man he thinks he is.

Um, dude...your thread has been listed since October 28th.

http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?29710-State-Issue-3-%E2%80%9COhio-Healthcare-Freedom-Amendment%E2%80%9D

Bigdogg;955298 wrote:Every newspaper in Ohio is against it.

Except those of the state's two largest cities.

Congratulations, you've elevated your lying to Footwedge territory.

I get the feeling Issue 2 isn't going to pass.

I don't think it will pass either, but it will be sweet irony when thousands of teachers are laid off. I can't wait to lawl.

I Wear Pants;955959 wrote:I get the feeling Issue 2 isn't going to pass.

So what if it doesn't? Does that mean the state will go back to "business as usual" and not take up the issue again in the Statehouse? Try to look past November 8th as the "be-all end-all" date of public union reform.

If it passes, SB5 is ratified. If it fails, SB"6" is coming our way. My hunch is that they'll take out the inflamatory language, add some clauses to address first-responders, and add a little salt for taste.

Remember, the folks that gave us SB5 are still in charge.

[LEFT]"The silent majority will emerge in favor of commonsense reform in Ohio.
In eight days, Ohio voters will go to the polls to decide the fate of Senate Bill 5, which institutes reasonable reforms in the way public employees are compensated. A yes vote on Issue 2 is a vote to keep the law in place.
Gov. John Kasich signed SB 5 into law last March, recognizing the need for local government flexibility in dealing with widespread budget pressures. By requiring government workers to pay a portion of their health and retirement benefits and instituting a system of compensation based on merit, local governments are able to avoid the layoffs and tax increases that have become commonplace in recent years.
Of course, the left has run a well-funded and intense smear campaign largely funded out of union headquarters in Washington, D.C. They have relied on the politics of fear to frame this initiative as an assault on police, fire fighters and teachers. And to wit, recent public polling data suggests the unions are winning: Last week’s Quinnipiac poll had Ohioans supporting repeal 57-32. Clearly $30 million goes a long way in an off-year election.
But this has always been a race for the independent vote, and the “silent majority” will break toward a yes vote in the final week before Election Day. The major tenets of SB 5 remain consistently popular across the political spectrum, and especially with self-identified independent voters:

• Voters support requiring public employees to pay at least 15 percent of their health insurance costs by a 60-33 margin.
• Voters support requiring public employees to contribute at least 10 percent of their wages toward their pensions by a 57-34 margin.
• Voters support determining pay increases based on merit rather than seniority by a 49-40 margin.

And those voters who do not identify with either major party are not loudly voicing their opinions either way, for a few reasons. The most prominent is fear of union retribution. The small business owner that supports SB 5 as a hedge against property tax increases probably isn’t putting up a sign for fear of a union-backed boycott. The teacher who supports merit pay as a way to be fairly compensated for hard work doesn’t dare oppose Ohio’s powerful teachers union. And the school administrators who need flexibility in balancing their budgets know that going toe-to-toe with unions could have catastrophic consequences should SB 5 be repealed.
But perhaps more importantly, the average Ohio family doesn’t have the luxury of a paid day off to take a bus to Columbus to scream and wave a sign in support of SB 5. Nor should they be expected to be so passionate. At the heart of the SB 5 debate is the conflict of concentrated benefits with dispersed costs. Of course the unions are going to spend $30 million on a hysterical smear campaign to oppose a very moderate piece of legislation. Automatic pay increases, “free” benefits and insulation from reform are their lifeblood. The average Ohioan just has to pay a little bit more in local property taxes and state income taxes, but unionized government employees experience an absolute windfall.
But at the end of the day, taxpayers know that the status quo is broken at both the state and local levels. And they are aware, in the words of the Buckeye Institute, that the Grand Bargain is dead. No longer do government workers take less pay but better benefits for the opportunity to perform a public service. Now they get great benefits and a bigger paycheck than the rest of us, with nearly no accountability to those of us paying the bills.
The left knows that Quinnipiac’s 57-32 situation isn’t going to happen next Tuesday. In fact, a recent internal labor memo warns that a blowout is not “remotely possible” and that Quinnipiac’s polling language is misleading. The same day the Democratic Governors Association dropped an emergency $150,000 check on the pro-repeal coalition.
I think internal polling is slowly showing independents breaking toward a yes vote, as it should. This is not a partisan issue or an attack on Ohio public workers, most of whom do honorable and effective work. It is rather an attempt to curtail the power of their unions, who have effectively bankrupted Ohio’s local governments with inflexible demands and outsized political influence. A yes vote on Issue 2 is a vote for a sustainable government sector in Ohio.



Read more: http://atr.org/expect-independents-support-ohios-issue-a6563#ixzz1ceScJpot[/LEFT]

BGFalcons82;956043 wrote:So what if it doesn't? Does that mean the state will go back to "business as usual" and not take up the issue again in the Statehouse? Try to look past November 8th as the "be-all end-all" date of public union reform.

If it passes, SB5 is ratified. If it fails, SB"6" is coming our way. My hunch is that they'll take out the inflamatory language, add some clauses to address first-responders, and add a little salt for taste.

Remember, the folks that gave us SB5 are still in charge.

I don't believe I made a statement regarding anything other than the passage or the failure of Issue 2. Which as of right now I'm voting "Yes" on.

I Wear Pants;955959 wrote:I get the feeling Issue 2 isn't going to pass.

Agreed. It's going to be closer than people think though.