QuakerOats;727297 wrote:The tangible personal property tax was replaced by the CAT tax .... lower rate, but MUCH broader base.

Try again ...............

But the CAT tax is not finding its way to fund education as it was originally designed to when it 'replaced' the tangible property tax. Those funds were originally paid directly to the local school district are now paid to the state and then funnelled tothe local school district. Interesting that the state of Ohio is now changing the direction of those funds from the local school district to other places...

wkfan;728163 wrote:But the CAT tax is not finding its way to fund education as it was originally designed to when it 'replaced' the tangible property tax. Those funds were originally paid directly to the local school district are now paid to the state and then funnelled tothe local school district. Interesting that the state of Ohio is now changing the direction of those funds from the local school district to other places...

Hold up there, wise gentleman. The state lottery was sold to the masses by saying it would pay for education. "Since it was for the children, who would be against it?", they asked. Now we have out of state lotteries, a Keno game, umpteen lottery games, scratch-offs, a lottery TV show and who knows what else to fund the children. And here we are arguing daily on multiple threads about how much MORE to spend on education. How much is enough? Apparently we aren't there yet. Is there anyone out there that could weave all of the state income taxes, lottery "profits", property taxes, school district income taxes, and local income taxes that are generated for education? I bet the number would be astonishing.

I don't remember CAT being passed to pay for education, but it seems to be the bell-weather when it comes to selling taxes to the peeps, so I wouldn't be surprised. I thought it was Taft's attempt to help the state gain more industry and become less taxing overall to look attractive to new businesses.

For every dollar sold, 61 cents go to prizes, 29 cents goes to profits, 6 cents goes to retailers and 4 cents pays for operations (which is down from 5 cents last year). One-hundred percent of the profits goes to the Ohio Lottery Profits Education Fund.

"I think what they may not realize is how much money that amounts to in any given year," said Kathy Burke, Director of the Ohio Lottery. "For example, last year it was $728 million that we sent to education," she said.

Burke said Ohioans may not understand what piece of the total education budget that is in the State of Ohio. "It's between 4.5 percent to 5 percent of the total education budget, which is probably smaller than most people realize," said Burke.

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/nov/17/how-much-lottery-money-goes-ohio-education-ar-294253/

redstreak one;728257 wrote:For every dollar sold, 61 cents go to prizes, 29 cents goes to profits, 6 cents goes to retailers and 4 cents pays for operations (which is down from 5 cents last year). One-hundred percent of the profits goes to the Ohio Lottery Profits Education Fund.

"I think what they may not realize is how much money that amounts to in any given year," said Kathy Burke, Director of the Ohio Lottery. "For example, last year it was $728 million that we sent to education," she said.

Burke said Ohioans may not understand what piece of the total education budget that is in the State of Ohio. "It's between 4.5 percent to 5 percent of the total education budget, which is probably smaller than most people realize," said Burke.

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/nov/17/how-much-lottery-money-goes-ohio-education-ar-294253/

I can't believe the misinformation is still out there that the Lottery was supposed to pay all of the education bill in Ohio. It was NEVER going to do that, because of the small (relatively speaking) amount of money it generates.

Since we will now have casinos in the state, I see no reason not to create (via the Ohio Legislature or referendum if needed) a Gambling Commission to oversee all these games of chance and operations, and figure out a way to channel taxes generated from them toward education. I know it will never come close to paying the entire bill, but every little bit helps.

If Ohio would adopt a more libertarian stance on marijuana and prostitution, we might be able to use sin taxes to run a good percentage of government operations and eventually do away with the income tax.

BGFalcons82;728214 wrote:I don't remember CAT being passed to pay for education, but it seems to be the bell-weather when it comes to selling taxes to the peeps, so I wouldn't be surprised. I thought it was Taft's attempt to help the state gain more industry and become less taxing overall to look attractive to new businesses.

I don't believe the CAT tax was ever 'sold' to pay for education. Rather, it was supposed to be a replacement for the Tangible Property Tax. The CAT tax revenues went elsewhere (other than education) while the school districts were 'held harmless' for the gradual phase out of the Tangible Property Tax with the promise that the CAT tax revenues would replace those received from the Tangible Property Tax. The theory was, as I have been told my my local school district Treasurer, was that the CAT tax rates could be 'tweaked' to raise or lower the amount funneled into education.

As we can see, the Tangible pProperty Tax is being phased out quicker than expected, the hold harmless portion is going away...and the CAT tax revenues are being used to help balance the State budget shortfall.

Interesting....

Writerbuckeye;728315 wrote:I can't believe the misinformation is still out there that the Lottery was supposed to pay all of the education bill in Ohio. It was NEVER going to do that, because of the small (relatively speaking) amount of money it generates.

Since we will now have casinos in the state, I see no reason not to create (via the Ohio Legislature or referendum if needed) a Gambling Commission to oversee all these games of chance and operations, and figure out a way to channel taxes generated from them toward education. I know it will never come close to paying the entire bill, but every little bit helps.

If Ohio would adopt a more libertarian stance on marijuana and prostitution, we might be able to use sin taxes to run a good percentage of government operations and eventually do away with the income tax.

I'm down with all of this.

The lottery proceeds are used to replace as much money as possible coming out of the general fund that was going towards education. It makes funds from the general fund available for other uses.

CenterBHSFan;722969 wrote:Are they in public unions?

No, they are in middle/upper management with a private, employee-owned company. I retired from this company over 3 years ago before the downturn.

BTW, it is a Sub-Chapter S corporation and hasn't paid Federal Income Taxes for 20 years now.

Writerbuckeye;728315 wrote:I can't believe the misinformation is still out there that the Lottery was supposed to pay all of the education bill in Ohio. It was NEVER going to do that, because of the small (relatively speaking) amount of money it generates.

I brought up the "lottery is paying for education" shtick as a satirical tongue-in-cheek argument. The legislation to make the lottery legal was stalled in the Ohio legislature 30+ years ago and the "do it for the children" mantra was paraded out to act as pablum for the masses. I referenced it again as the pablum has completely worn off and as a reminder that the voters have been duped before.

I don't believe the CAT tax was ever 'sold' to pay for education.

I used the word, "sold", in a marketing sense and not in a sense that goods were exchanged for cash. It's a too-common ploy to invoke "children" to tug at people's heartstrings in order to get what they want. Like the 26.99 year olds that qualify as children under ObamaKare in order to stay on daddy's plan that you and I ultimately pay for.

Standing and applauding Kasich and the legislature for the new law which is a great first step in controlling government spending and runaway public sector compensation costs, and giving local entities the tools they need to effectively manage their operations. This is a huge win for Ohio, and to all those who had the courage to do the right thing - thank you.

QuakerOats;730394 wrote:Standing and applauding Kasich and the legislature for the new law which is a great first step in controlling government spending and runaway public sector compensation costs, and giving local entities the tools they need to effectively manage their operations. This is a huge win for Ohio, and to all those who had the courage to do the right thing - thank you.

+1

I've watched all the news reports on this process and haven't been too impressed with how the opposition has carried themselves throughout. They've been loud, rude and obnoxious, and I can't imagine this is going to help them with their ballot initiative. If I'm the Governor, I would have had crews taking lots of footage of the most obnoxious protesters, and I would be using that in ads against any ballot measure trying to repeal it.

Ohio has a choice here: to keep doing the same old thing, the same old way and see its economy continue to wither and die; and its best and brightest children pick and move after they graduate from college...

Or be bold and change the culture of corruption and stagnation that the union mentality brings with it; find new ways to make government more efficient and less intrusive; and create an inviting and vibrant atmosphere in which companies want to stay and expand, or re-locate here, and our best want to stay and build their own lives with families.

Writerbuckeye;730460 wrote:Or be bold and change the culture of corruption and stagnation that the union mentality brings with it; find new ways to make government more efficient and less intrusive; and create an inviting and vibrant atmosphere in which companies want to stay and expand, or re-locate here, and our best want to stay and build their own lives with families.

And you truly believe that SB5 will accomplish these things?

wkfan;730464 wrote:And you truly believe that SB5 will accomplish these things?

By itself? No.

wkfan;730464 wrote:And you truly believe that SB5 will accomplish these things?

sounds great...reminds me of the subway commercial where the chicken cordon blue sub looks amazing..fresh ham, savory chicken piled high on fresh bread...

I wanted to order one after watching the commercial until i saw the guy in front of me order one...it looked nothing like the advertisement. in reality it was a few pieces of dried out chicken that looked like it was sitting all day thrown in with some ham sloppily thrown together. but i guess you get what you pay for. i honestly think that all workers in ohio will eventually get paid less under kasich and that our services will be of less quality. it will be cheaper tho. when i want a good sub i usually have to pay more for it at jersey mikes, or wg grinders. there is a reason subway subs are 5 dollars. ohio is going to we the walmart of the US. cheap but not high quality.

Gblock;730490 wrote:sounds great...reminds me of the subway commercial where the chicken cordon blue sub looks amazing..fresh ham, savory chicken piled high on fresh bread...

I wanted to order one after watching the commercial until i saw the guy in front of me order one...it looked nothing like the advertisement. in reality it was a few pieces of dried out chicken that looked like it was sitting all day thrown in with some ham sloppily thrown together. but i guess you get what you pay for. i honestly think that all workers in ohio will eventually get paid less under kasich and that our services will be of less quality. it will be cheaper tho. when i want a good sub i usually have to pay more for it at jersey mikes, or wg grinders. there is a reason subway subs are 5 dollars. ohio is going to we the walmart of the US. cheap but not high quality.

Thanks so much for reinforcing the stereotype of the LAZY public worker who will only do so much and has a chip on his shoulder (always thinks he's worth more than he probably is).

As for the bill, I don't expect this bill to do what I described all by itself -- but it's a START. Now we have to follow up and change the culture of this state that is so ingrained into union thinking.

There's a reason Ohio has lost so much of its manufacturing base, and not all of it has to do with companies simply outsourcing for cheaper labor. That's a fine and dandy excuse, but if people here were better prepared to offer the kind of skills companies today seek (more technologically oriented and trained) at least we'd have a workforce that could compete. Do some more tinkering with state regulations that have made this one of the most anti-business climates in the country, and we might actually see companies seeking our state out as a place to do business.

I can guarantee you one thing: if SB5 is repealed and the union mentality stays ingrained, Ohio will continue to swirl down the tubes, just like it has been doing the past 20 years.

If you want an example of how ingrained union thinking has basically destroyed a once thriving area, look no further than Youngstown.

Writerbuckeye;730603 wrote:Thanks so much for reinforcing the stereotype of the LAZY public worker who will only do so much and has a chip on his shoulder (always thinks he's worth more than he probably is).

As for the bill, I don't expect this bill to do what I described all by itself -- but it's a START. Now we have to follow up and change the culture of this state that is so ingrained into union thinking.

There's a reason Ohio has lost so much of its manufacturing base, and not all of it has to do with companies simply outsourcing for cheaper labor. That's a fine and dandy excuse, but if people here were better prepared to offer the kind of skills companies today seek (more technologically oriented and trained) at least we'd have a workforce that could compete. Do some more tinkering with state regulations that have made this one of the most anti-business climates in the country, and we might actually see companies seeking our state out as a place to do business.

I can guarantee you one thing: if SB5 is repealed and the union mentality stays ingrained, Ohio will continue to swirl down the tubes, just like it has been doing the past 20 years.

If you want an example of how ingrained union thinking has basically destroyed a once thriving area, look no further than Youngstown.

i m lazy because i dont think that this bill is good for ALL ohio workers? show me a right to work state that workers make more money than comparable workers in other states.... i guess you can dismiss me by calling me lazy and using the same rhetoric you accuse me of but you have no idea how hard i worked in my life...i have been working since age 13...all while playing three sports..two in college and paying my own way for undergrad and masters. ihave never got a dime from the state or my parents. so if it makes you feel better to down grade me to not address my point about this bill not being good for all workers or the fact that it could have unitended consequences ok thats fine but that doesnt make it true.

Gblock;730490 wrote:sounds great...reminds me of the subway commercial where the chicken cordon blue sub looks amazing..fresh ham, savory chicken piled high on fresh bread...

I wanted to order one after watching the commercial until i saw the guy in front of me order one...it looked nothing like the advertisement. in reality it was a few pieces of dried out chicken that looked like it was sitting all day thrown in with some ham sloppily thrown together. but i guess you get what you pay for. i honestly think that all workers in ohio will eventually get paid less under kasich and that our services will be of less quality. it will be cheaper tho. when i want a good sub i usually have to pay more for it at jersey mikes, or wg grinders. there is a reason subway subs are 5 dollars. ohio is going to we the walmart of the US. cheap but not high quality.

Your words, chief. Don't get all defensive when YOU are the one who said it.

Writerbuckeye;730633 wrote:Your words, chief. Don't get all defensive when YOU are the one who said it.

all workers means private sector as well, im not talking about unions or my services that i provide im talking about services and goods that we all use. i think kasich is also going to go after private sector jobs and lower the amount you can make there as well as replacing them with inferior workers. i look at our own district who now uses a private bus company to supply our busses and drivers, they are cheaper but it has caused twice the amount of problems and headaches. this is where i think our services will suffer. i honestly believe it will lower the pool of good people who want to be teachers, or police or fireman..

...you try to demonize unions as the problem but its too easy a target...i have never even thought about being in a union except when i get my first two checks of the year and they are bigger without the union dues being taken out. the compensation in our district has barely changed in 15 years since ive been hired and people say its "running rampant"..if we were the problem where has the complaints been for all these years...just because the economy went to shit we are being demonized as greedy?? i worked for dirt for years making half of what my private sector peers made without complaining and now that their choices of employment arent working out they want to even the field...nobody wanted to even the field for me. nobody has ever called me greedy till this year. not once not ever. never been called lazy till this year. never been called a union thug till this year. so please stop with the ideology crap.

i understand if you are in the private sector and you are broke or struggling you want to pay less taxes, i get it because i pay taxes too. I pay hilliard school taxes and they have a levy coming up. im sure that if it passes i will ahve to pay 500-800 more in taxes. and in 4 years or so i might have to do it again. i dont have kids that even go to their schools. but i recognize my responsibility as a resident of that area. everything is going up in price..gas, food, insurance, cable yea it sux but the price doesnt go down just because i dont want to pay it. i also recognize it will help my property value to keep good schools and to keep people from more forclosures. Lowering salaries of workers will trickle into the private sector as you will see people spend less and lose their homes further making property values go down even more. all while kasich moves on to the whitehouse or another cushy jobs. i get that you dont want to pay more taxes, i dont either but please dont hide behind this high horse ideology just say you dont want to pay more taxes. even tho i can say your taxes still arent going to go down.

Maybe i am wrong as i said what you guys say sounds great...i guess we will see.

I feel sorry for you if you truly believe Kasich has the power to force companies to pay lower wages -- or that he'd do it.

Unbelievable.

Writerbuckeye;730670 wrote:I feel sorry for you if you truly believe Kasich has the power to force companies to pay lower wages -- or that he'd do it.

Unbelievable.

where did i say that?

companies dont need incentive to want to pay lower wages..they obviously want to pay the lowest wage possible? wtf? lowering qualifications required for a job=lower pay. when the prisons go private do you think the workers there will make more or less?

Gblock;730672 wrote: companies dont need incentive to want to pay lower wages..they obviously want to pay the lowest wage possible? wtf? lowering qualifications required for a job=lower pay. when the prisons go private do you think the workers there will make more or less?

Wrong. We could go out and re-hire our entire workforce for 20% less, but we would ruin our business in less than 3 months because the group of people being brought in would not be able to do the work sufficiently and efficiently. Companies seek productive workers, not necessarily the 'cheapest', in fact, hardly ever the cheapest because that is usually a prescription for failure.

The bottom line in my view is, many who have never been held accountable for their work and performance, are now going to be held accountable ...... and some fear that and will do whatever it takes to protect the status quo. Well, guess what, welcome to the real world; get used to it.

CenterBHSFan;721626 wrote:Ooook, I see. Yeah, I derped!

Lol yeah, to cut $12 million by switching swab pad brands they'd have to be buying really damn expensive swabs.

QuakerOats;730710 wrote:Wrong. We could go out and re-hire our entire workforce for 20% less, but we would ruin our business in less than 3 months because the group of people being brought in would not be able to do the work sufficiently and efficiently. Companies seek productive workers, not necessarily the 'cheapest', in fact, hardly ever the cheapest because that is usually a prescription for failure.

The bottom line in my view is, many who have never been held accountable for their work and performance, are now going to be held accountable ...... and some fear that and will do whatever it takes to protect the status quo. Well, guess what, welcome to the real world; get used to it.

But they want to pay productive workers the least amount possible to still retain them

whats the real world? a show on mtv?

I feel sorry for you if you truly believe Kasich has the power to force companies to pay lower wages -- or that he'd do it.

Unbelievable.