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Cleveland Browns 2011 Super Awesome In-Season Thread

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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 5, 2011 12:29 PM
Browns stretch after the bye is brutal...not because of WHO they face but WHERE they face them. The go to Oakland, come home for Seattle and then return to the West Coast for SF. They'll be lucky to come out with that home game against Seattle.
Oct 5, 2011 12:29pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 6, 2011 12:06 PM
Some of the Browns fan base isn't very bright. I'm already getting sick of the "why are we worried about Colt, he threw for 350 yards and is on pace for 4000 yards, 24 TD's & 12 INT's."

Now I know the kid needs MORE time to be properly evaluated but does it REALLY matter WHAT his stats are if the majority of them come in mop up time when the opposing D is in a prevent, the D shows him NO respect and they only win 4 games?

What's REALLY starting to piss me off is that Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur are trying to "date rape" (force on us) this "pass first" philosophy. It's one thing if this roster were teeming with legit WR's but they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole/throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This team is equipped to RUN. Pass blocking is typically more difficult for an O-Lineman and guys like Pashos are known to be better run blockers. Why the infatuation with the "we gotta pass because it's a passing league" bullshit when they can control the clock and let their defense win football games. They're trying to get TOO cute here and, frankly, are jacking off while wearing a rubber (wasting time).

Don't know about others but I'd rather see wins than a 'sexy" offense.
Oct 6, 2011 12:06pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

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1,588 posts
Oct 6, 2011 12:44 PM
The worst part for me is that if they are hell-bent on being pass first then our best pass-catchers (ie Hillis) need to be on the field for the majority of the game.
Oct 6, 2011 12:44pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
Oct 6, 2011 12:54 PM
BR1986FB;923631 wrote:Some of the Browns fan base isn't very bright. I'm already getting sick of the "why are we worried about Colt, he threw for 350 yards and is on pace for 4000 yards, 24 TD's & 12 INT's."

Now I know the kid needs MORE time to be properly evaluated but does it REALLY matter WHAT his stats are if the majority of them come in mop up time when the opposing D is in a prevent, the D shows him NO respect and they only win 4 games?

What's REALLY starting to piss me off is that Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur are trying to "date rape" (force on us) this "pass first" philosophy. It's one thing if this roster were teeming with legit WR's but they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole/throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This team is equipped to RUN. Pass blocking is typically more difficult for an O-Lineman and guys like Pashos are known to be better run blockers. Why the infatuation with the "we gotta pass because it's a passing league" bullshit when they can control the clock and let their defense win football games. They're trying to get TOO cute here and, frankly, are jacking off while wearing a rubber (wasting time).

Don't know about others but I'd rather see wins than a 'sexy" offense.
Yeah. A certain amount of logic needs to be applied. Or at least all the numbers and not just cherry-picking the best ones. Like, when it takes 60 passes to get 350 yards, 350 isn't that impressive because you're getting a bit under six yards per attempt. And that number of attempts basically SCREAMS "team was down big, so running game was abandoned".
Oct 6, 2011 12:54pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 6, 2011 1:20 PM
Heretic;923695 wrote:Yeah. A certain amount of logic needs to be applied. Or at least all the numbers and not just cherry-picking the best ones. Like, when it takes 60 passes to get 350 yards, 350 isn't that impressive because you're getting a bit under six yards per attempt. And that number of attempts basically SCREAMS "team was down big, so running game was abandoned".
No shit. You complete 40+ passes, you'd better have close to 500 yards passing. Even Charlie Frye snickers at those numbers after him and Brady Quinn are done spooning. DA's bringing the coke for the menage.
Oct 6, 2011 1:20pm
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Commander of Awesome

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23,151 posts
Oct 6, 2011 1:46 PM
BR1986FB;923746 wrote: Even Charlie Frye snickers at those numbers after him and Brady Quinn are done spooning. DA's bringing the coke for the menage.
lol
Oct 6, 2011 1:46pm
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OQB

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6,679 posts
Oct 6, 2011 1:54 PM
BR1986FB;923631 wrote:Some of the Browns fan base isn't very bright. I'm already getting sick of the "why are we worried about Colt, he threw for 350 yards and is on pace for 4000 yards, 24 TD's & 12 INT's."

Now I know the kid needs MORE time to be properly evaluated but does it REALLY matter WHAT his stats are if the majority of them come in mop up time when the opposing D is in a prevent, the D shows him NO respect and they only win 4 games?

What's REALLY starting to piss me off is that Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur are trying to "date rape" (force on us) this "pass first" philosophy. It's one thing if this roster were teeming with legit WR's but they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole/throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This team is equipped to RUN. Pass blocking is typically more difficult for an O-Lineman and guys like Pashos are known to be better run blockers. Why the infatuation with the "we gotta pass because it's a passing league" bullshit when they can control the clock and let their defense win football games. They're trying to get TOO cute here and, frankly, are jacking off while wearing a rubber (wasting time).

Don't know about others but I'd rather see wins than a 'sexy" offense.
GREAT post!!
Oct 6, 2011 1:54pm
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Writerbuckeye

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4,745 posts
Oct 6, 2011 2:06 PM
I agree with your post BR, but there's a part of me that thinks maybe the front office and Shurmur are making absolutely sure (in their minds) that the wideouts we now have aren't the answer -- before they cut bait and move in a different direction.

The only way to do that is put this offense in a pass first mode and turn it loose so you can evaluate it.

One of the things this front office has done very well, for the most part, is evaluate talent. They want to make sure who can do what, and whether they are a fit for where this team wants to end up.

I also believe part of what's happening is a test of Colt. How else are you going to get a good feel for what he can or cannot do, unless you make passing the central part of the offense?

Now, I understand that doing this means you also potentially put wins in jeopardy, because you might be able to win games pounding Hillis and using the passing game more sparingly.

I don't think they'd totally eschew a chance to win by throwing so much that it just wrecks the game plan, but I do think they probably adjust as game situations change. When last week's game got out of hand, they went to all passing out of necessity, and to see how Colt would respond.

Remember: this group is looking at the longer term, otherwise they'd have signed some older and viable free agents to at least make it possible for some more wins this season. Instead, they are focusing on youth, giving those players a chance to be "the guy" and hopefully win.

As much as I don't totally agree with how they're going about this, I do at least accept that it's a viable strategy and could pay big dividends down the road.
Oct 6, 2011 2:06pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 6, 2011 2:29 PM
My problem with that is how are you going to get a "true" read on McCoy if his supporting receiver cast is shit?

A lot of these problems are fixable with a good O-Line too. I'd be interested to see his effectiveness if he didn't have to deal with happy feet. Would he still hold onto the ball too long? Would he still play it safe with the dink & dunk?
Oct 6, 2011 2:29pm
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Y-Town Steelhound

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1,388 posts
Oct 6, 2011 5:39 PM
How his receivers play doesn't matter when you can plainly tell that he has no ability to adjust to adverse weather conditions. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Colt McCoy has a chance to be a very good NFL quarterback, just not in Cleveland. He can't throw when the ball is wet.
Oct 6, 2011 5:39pm
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DeyDurkie5

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11,324 posts
Oct 6, 2011 7:19 PM
BR1986FB;923631 wrote:Some of the Browns fan base isn't very bright. I'm already getting sick of the "why are we worried about Colt, he threw for 350 yards and is on pace for 4000 yards, 24 TD's & 12 INT's."

Now I know the kid needs MORE time to be properly evaluated but does it REALLY matter WHAT his stats are if the majority of them come in mop up time when the opposing D is in a prevent, the D shows him NO respect and they only win 4 games?

What's REALLY starting to piss me off is that Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur are trying to "date rape" (force on us) this "pass first" philosophy. It's one thing if this roster were teeming with legit WR's but they're trying to put a square peg in a round hole/throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This team is equipped to RUN. Pass blocking is typically more difficult for an O-Lineman and guys like Pashos are known to be better run blockers. Why the infatuation with the "we gotta pass because it's a passing league" bullshit when they can control the clock and let their defense win football games. They're trying to get TOO cute here and, frankly, are jacking off while wearing a rubber (wasting time).

Don't know about others but I'd rather see wins than a 'sexy" offense.
You wanted a pass first mentality before the season, why the sudden change after four games? This is what you guys were calling for. I see what you are saying, but come on give the kid some time. He's completing these passes with NO down field threat. I like the offense we are going too, just don't see the need to rush and expect greatness so soon.
Oct 6, 2011 7:19pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 6, 2011 7:30 PM
DeyDurkie5;924152 wrote:You wanted a pass first mentality before the season, why the sudden change after four games? This is what you guys were calling for. I see what you are saying, but come on give the kid some time. He's completing these passes with NO down field threat. I like the offense we are going too, just don't see the need to rush and expect greatness so soon.
If they had quality WR's I'd LOVE them to have that mentality. I thought prior to the season that these guys would be fine, but they're not. Passing IS usually the only way you beat teams like the Steelers.

Unless the only 3 WR's seeing the field are Cribbs, MoMass & Little this offense will continue to piss in the wind. But while they are trying to build up to the "pass first" mentality, why cut off their nose to spite their face by abandoning their strength, the run?
Oct 6, 2011 7:30pm
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DeyDurkie5

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11,324 posts
Oct 6, 2011 7:35 PM
BR1986FB;924163 wrote:If they had quality WR's I'd LOVE them to have that mentality. I thought prior to the season that these guys would be fine, but they're not. Passing IS usually the only way you beat teams like the Steelers.

Unless the only 3 WR's seeing the field are Cribbs, MoMass & Little this offense will continue to piss in the wind. But while they are trying to build up to the "pass first" mentality, why cut off their nose to spite their face by abandoning their strength, the run?
I think it's because they have found their core group of players and are trying to implement their system so they are good to go and familiar with it for years to come. Why digress and abandon the system you want because it hasn't worked 4 games into a season that had no training camp to begin with? McCoy is going to have rough games where people think he isn't the answer, but to the front office(unless we get luck) he is the one. I think he is the one too when it comes to this team, he is a winner. Once they get weapons needed on offense to really stretch the field, this offense should take off. I just don't see why everyone's panties are in a bunch when it comes to the browns. They are young, and have the core needed but injuries on the o-line have affected the growing process. I will say this though, Shurmur needs to address the hillis situation fast before it gets out of control. He is CLEARLY our lead back and without him we digress on offense by a shitload.
Oct 6, 2011 7:35pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 7, 2011 5:25 AM
I'm not saying abandon the path they are headed down. I AM saying run the ball more than 17 fucking times in a game when that's your strength.
Oct 7, 2011 5:25am
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DeyDurkie5

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11,324 posts
Oct 7, 2011 6:44 AM
BR1986FB;924713 wrote:I'm not saying abandon the path they are headed down. I AM saying run the ball more than 17 fucking times in a game when that's your strength.
I am pretty sure shurmur already commented and said that when you get down by a lot early, your running goes out the window. He said he was going to establish the run in the second half, then the pick six happened.
Oct 7, 2011 6:44am
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bases_loaded

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6,912 posts
Oct 7, 2011 7:32 AM
When you're down that much, that quick you have to abandon the run.
Oct 7, 2011 7:32am
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 7, 2011 7:54 AM
DeyDurkie5;924722 wrote:I am pretty sure shurmur already commented and said that when you get down by a lot early, your running goes out the window. He said he was going to establish the run in the second half, then the pick six happened.
Understood in a blowout but their ratio's of run to pass are a bit ridiculous.

Cincy- 40 pass, 26 run
Indy- 32 pass, 34 run (most balanced & most convincing win)
MIA- 39 pass, 19 run (lucky they pulled this out of their ass)
Tenn- 61 pass, 22 run (understood that they were getting drilled)

For them to have a chance in games these ratio's have to be closer to 1:1 like the Indy game. This team will NOT win, consistently, with McCoy slinging the ball all over the stadium.
Oct 7, 2011 7:54am
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bases_loaded

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6,912 posts
Oct 7, 2011 8:26 AM
They played from behind in every game with more passing attempts. By behind I mean at least a TD.
Oct 7, 2011 8:26am
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Writerbuckeye

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4,745 posts
Oct 7, 2011 11:41 AM
bases_loaded;924770 wrote:They played from behind in every game with more passing attempts. By behind I mean at least a TD.
Yep. It's hard to run the ball and win games when you're always trying to catch up.

I still believe they are going to run if possible, but there is no doubt in my mind they want to pass a certain amount to evaluate everything related to the passing game.

As pathetic as the passing game has appeared at times, I am not going to get worked up about it at this point because of the ridiculously short time they had to implement this offense, and the piss poor play of the OL in most of these games.

This line has not had more than one game together as a unit, and if Mack is out because of his appendectomy, that will still be the case for another week or two. It's almost impossible to expect even average line play when you keep switching players. There's also no doubt in my mind that this has gotten into Colt's head and is the reason he's so fidgety right now. When the Browns had a stable line last year, Colt looked like a very different QB.
Oct 7, 2011 11:41am
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DeyDurkie5

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11,324 posts
Oct 7, 2011 7:42 PM
bases_loaded;924770 wrote:They played from behind in every game with more passing attempts. By behind I mean at least a TD.
Writerbuckeye;924949 wrote:Yep. It's hard to run the ball and win games when you're always trying to catch up.

I still believe they are going to run if possible, but there is no doubt in my mind they want to pass a certain amount to evaluate everything related to the passing game.

As pathetic as the passing game has appeared at times, I am not going to get worked up about it at this point because of the ridiculously short time they had to implement this offense, and the piss poor play of the OL in most of these games.

This line has not had more than one game together as a unit, and if Mack is out because of his appendectomy, that will still be the case for another week or two. It's almost impossible to expect even average line play when you keep switching players. There's also no doubt in my mind that this has gotten into Colt's head and is the reason he's so fidgety right now. When the Browns had a stable line last year, Colt looked like a very different QB.
That's what I'm getting at. We have been down for the most part in these games, so it's hard to establish that 1:1 ratio.
Oct 7, 2011 7:42pm
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BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Oct 8, 2011 9:35 AM
I think it would be a good idea if the Cleveland Browns banned Tony Grossi & Mary Kay Cabot from any inside access/coverage of the team. Just a thought as Grossi seems to like to stir unneeded shit up.
Oct 8, 2011 9:35am
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DeyDurkie5

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11,324 posts
Oct 8, 2011 9:43 AM
BR1986FB;926008 wrote:I think it would be a good idea if the Cleveland Browns banned Tony Grossi & Mary Kay Cabot from any inside access/coverage of the team. Just a thought as Grossi seems to like to stir unneeded shit up.
Grossi is the absolute worst. Don't know how he got that job.
Oct 8, 2011 9:43am
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iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Oct 8, 2011 10:15 AM
DeyDurkie5;926011 wrote:Grossi is the absolute worst. Don't know how he got that job.
I have complained about that douche multiple times. He has no inside sources and brings 0 intelligence to his articles. Dude is terrible.
Oct 8, 2011 10:15am
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Writerbuckeye

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4,745 posts
Oct 8, 2011 11:50 AM
Very irresponsible journalism to simply throw that out there with no corroboration or source. Sometimes, I think sports writers are the worst at this sort of thing because (1) it's sports and not something bigger, like misquoting a politician and (2) if it riles sports fans up it actually helps readership go up, which helps advertising rates.
Oct 8, 2011 11:50am