Archive The True Meaning of Christmas

tcarrier32

Posts: 1,497

Dec 26, 2010 6:44pm

im not trying to turn this into even more of a pissing match, but i was responding to the comment where one poster was talking about how non believers couldn't claim ignorance when the judgement came. things like that annoy me, its a pretty shitty thing to say in the first place really. By saying that you are essentially ok with other human beings "suffering the wrath of god" just because they dont believe in the same dogma as you.

if there is an all knowing, all powerful presence in this universe he/she/it would fully understand why people would doubt its existence.

Murdski99

Posts: 399

Dec 27, 2010 1:12am

CenterBHSFan;613753 wrote:But we're specifically not talking about other things. We are talking about Christmas. I never said I never bash people. I said I don't bash people for not believing.

Strawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww man points to ya!

I believe in God. You may or may not. I don't bash you for either. Understand now?

Yupp got ya hope. Hope you enjoy reading your story books.

B

BoatShoes

Posts: 5,703

Dec 27, 2010 8:33am

krambman;612956 wrote:Because the Catholic church claims that Mary remained her virgin her entire life, even though the Bible is very clear that she had other children, because we know that Jesus had younger siblings. The Catholic church claims that the word for brothers and sisters can also mean cousins, and that these were adopted siblings. Only the Catholic church holds this view, no Protestant churches believe that she remained a virgin. There's no Biblical basis that Mary remained a virgin her whole life. It developed as a tradition hundreds of years after the fact. Besides, even if she didn't ever have any other kids Jesus was still her firstborn son.

Hard to believe that thousands of people slaughtered each other for many many years over such kinds of disagreements between protestants and catholics. I don't intend for this to be a flame on religion in any way. Just something I thought of when I read Krambman's response. It seems to me, that devout Christ-followers with reasonable minds might be able to hold either view.

CenterBHSFan

Posts: 6,115

Dec 27, 2010 8:38am

BoatShoes;614417 wrote:Hard to believe that thousands of people slaughtered each other for many many years over such kinds of disagreements between protestants and catholics.

Henry VIII was such an ass! lol

CenterBHSFan

Posts: 6,115

Dec 27, 2010 8:45am

Why doesn't somebody just make a thread for the people who just want to bash God and any sort of faith and consequent believers? That way, they can get their ya-ya's out.

Buckeyechick

Posts: 97

Dec 27, 2010 9:30am

CenterBHSFan;614425 wrote:Why doesn't somebody just make a thread for the people who just want to bash God and any sort of faith and consequent believers? That way, they can get their ya-ya's out.

Seriously!!! I mean geeze oh petes I would NEVER assume so much as to bash someone's beliefs or non belief for that matter. I don't get it why it is ok for people to make fun of Christians or any people of faith. It's just mean spirited and to be honest very "little" of the people doing it. People don't agree with someone else’s beliefs or lack thereof and they just make fun of them instead of just being respectful. I am always respectful, heavens I am a devout Christian and my FIL is Muslim and I'd never assume to push my faith on him or to make fun of him, I can't understand why others have to be so blasted nasty!

Buckeyechick

Posts: 97

Dec 27, 2010 9:39am

BoatShoes;614417 wrote:Hard to believe that thousands of people slaughtered each other for many many years over such kinds of disagreements between protestants and catholics. I don't intend for this to be a flame on religion in any way. Just something I thought of when I read Krambman's response. It seems to me, that devout Christ-followers with reasonable minds might be able to hold either view.

As a Christian I agree with you. I am very devout in my personal belief but I cannot imagine ever wanting to (using your example given) slaughter someone for believing something different. Gosh I can't imagine even disliking someone for not believing as I do. Jesus taught love not all of this. We have family who are Muslim, friends who are Jewish, Mormon, Agnostic etc. they are ALL terrific people and blessings to our life. I wouldn't trade a single one of them for the world and they do not, in any which way or form, threaten my belief in God. Do we have religious discussions...sure we do. We debate respectfully, which is awesome, but no one tries and persecute others for believing differently.

Murdski99

Posts: 399

Dec 27, 2010 12:19pm

Buckeyechick;614463 wrote:As a Christian I agree with you. I am very devout in my personal belief but I cannot imagine ever wanting to (using your example given) slaughter someone for believing something different. Gosh I can't imagine even disliking someone for not believing as I do. Jesus taught love not all of this. We have family who are Muslim, friends who are Jewish, Mormon, Agnostic etc. they are ALL terrific people and blessings to our life. I wouldn't trade a single one of them for the world and they do not, in any which way or form, threaten my belief in God. Do we have religious discussions...sure we do. We debate respectfully, which is awesome, but no one tries and persecute others for believing differently.

how's quidditch going this season?

Buckeyechick

Posts: 97

Dec 27, 2010 12:23pm

Murdski99;614643 wrote:how's quidditch going this season?

Probably about as well as being a smart butt is going with you.

Bigred1995

Posts: 1,042

Dec 27, 2010 1:52pm

krambman;612552 wrote:This time of year the songs, movies, and TV specials all seem to have a different interpretation of what Christmas is all about. They say that it means spending time with family and friends, giving and receiving gifts, being thankful for what you have, and promoting peace on earth. All of these are good things, but none of them are really what Christmas is about. Christmas is a day that has been set aside to remember and celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, who some 30 years later would willingly die on a cross for the sins of the world before being raised from the dead three days later. This is the true meaning of Christmas.

1And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. 2(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) 5To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

8And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10And the angel said unto them, "Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger."

13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

15And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, "Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us."


16And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. 17And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. 18And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. 19But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. 20And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

Luke 2:1-20 (King James Version)

Luke 1:5

5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah...

I have an honest question; I'm not bashing or belittling I'm just curious, maybe some of the others that mentioned having a religion class can help answer this as well!

How do you reconcile the fact that Luke places the birth of Christ during the reign of Herod the Great & during the Governorship of Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius)? As I'm sure you know Herod the Great reigned from 34 BCE to his death in 4 BCE, but Publius Sulpicius Quirinius didn't become Governor until 6 AD; that's 10 full years after the death of Herod and a full 12 years after the time Matthew gives for the birth of Christ.

Would you please help me understand this contradiction within Luke and between Luke and Matthew? Thanks!

S

Sonofanump

Dec 27, 2010 2:49pm

Bigred1995;614785 wrote:I have an honest question; I'm not bashing or belittling I'm just curious, maybe some of the others that mentioned having a religion class can help answer this as well!

How do you reconcile the fact that Luke places the birth of Christ during the reign of Herod the Great & during the Governorship of Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius)? As I'm sure you know Herod the Great reigned from 34 BCE to his death in 4 BCE, but Publius Sulpicius Quirinius didn't become Governor until 6 AD; that's 10 full years after the death of Herod and a full 12 years after the time Matthew gives for the birth of Christ.

Would you please help me understand this contradiction within Luke and between Luke and Matthew? Thanks!

They meet this guy while fishing and thought him to be about 30. They did not know exactly how old he was because they did not like have birthday cake back then to celebrate with. They did not know when the census was taken or their uncle thought that that governor died like 25 years ago because they were little tykes then. They could not confirm these facts due to the lack of internetz.

Buckeyechick

Posts: 97

Dec 27, 2010 2:55pm

Sonofanump;614841 wrote:They meet this guy while fishing and thought him to be about 30. They did not know exactly how old he was because they did not like have birthday cake back then to celebrate with. They did not know when the census was taken or their uncle thought that that governor died like 25 years ago because they were little tykes then. They could not confirm these facts due to the lack of internetz.

I know to this day still in some places in the Middle East people in their 60s and up couldn't tell you the day the month or the year they were born. It is more of a "My Mom said I was born around the time of whatever event was going on at that time" kind of thing. So they have a round about idea but not exact. When I asked my FIL his mothers age he gave me a 6 to 7 year time frame of when they THINK she was born.

Bigred1995

Posts: 1,042

Dec 27, 2010 3:37pm

Sonofanump;614841 wrote:They meet this guy while fishing and thought him to be about 30. They did not know exactly how old he was because they did not like have birthday cake back then to celebrate with. They did not know when the census was taken or their uncle thought that that governor died like 25 years ago because they were little tykes then. They could not confirm these facts due to the lack of internetz.

1. Bible is the Inspired Word of God and is infallible! Either it is or isn't! If it isn't how can we believe anything in it, especially when there are major contradiction such as this?
2.

Luke 1:3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus

it's not like he was writing from memory!
3. Other people from that time are able to accurately place events in time (see Josephus) why not Luke?
4. Matthew doesn't seem to have an issue remembering when Jesus was born (about two years before the death of Herod).

S

Sonofanump

Dec 27, 2010 3:40pm

Sounds like Luke was a better deciple than historian.

Bigred1995

Posts: 1,042

Dec 27, 2010 3:47pm

Sonofanump;614899 wrote:Sounds like Luke was a better deciple than historian.

So, the Bible was indeed just written by men and not inspired by god and therefore chalked full of errors? How do we know if anything in the Bible is accurate?

thePITman

Posts: 3,867

Dec 28, 2010 10:38am

I thank God every day for giving us his Son, not only Jesus' Birth but also His Resurrection. Every day, not just on certain days. Christmas is a time where I focus more on the Birth, and Easter more on the Resurrection. But either way, WHEN we celebrate it shouldn't matter. I'm glad that commercialized Christmas, no matter how much it may try to do away with "Merry Christmas" for "Happy Holidays", will still have the giving of gifts, symbolizing the Three Wisemen and their gifts for Jesus on his birthday.

People may believe what they believe.

J

jmog

Posts: 6,567

Dec 28, 2010 4:21pm

Sonofanump;612872 wrote:So why does this phrase exist and later in the blessing of the gifts the priest states "ever virgin Mary"?

Because to be honest, Catholics screw up the idea of Mary. The Bible explicitly describes her having other children, but the Catholics truly believe she continued to be a virgin until her death.

J

jmog

Posts: 6,567

Dec 28, 2010 4:27pm

Heelz;613570 wrote:I just took a Religion course in college and learned about the original version of why we celebrate Christmas with the trying to to convert Pagans but I believe the Jesus is Lord and savior and all of the Sunday school stuff that we are taught in Christianity its all how you take it. I dont think you can take everything in the Bible literally if you do than you will be so confused as the Bible has so many contradictions from the Old to the New testaments. If you really bother to read it.

I've read teh Bible cover to cover a number of times, care to point out the "so many contradictions"?

Murdski99

Posts: 399

Dec 28, 2010 4:29pm

jmog;615971 wrote:Because to be honest, Catholics screw up the idea of Mary. The Bible explicitly describes her having other children, but the Catholics truly believe she continued to be a virgin until her death.

because catholics are retarded

Bigred1995

Posts: 1,042

Dec 28, 2010 6:18pm

jmog;615985 wrote:I've read teh Bible cover to cover a number of times, care to point out the "so many contradictions"?

You can start with "teh"

one I posted...

How do you reconcile the fact that Luke places the birth of Christ during the reign of Herod the Great & during the Governorship of Cyrenius (Publius Sulpicius Quirinius)? As I'm sure you know Herod the Great reigned from 34 BCE to his death in 4 BCE, but Publius Sulpicius Quirinius didn't become Governor until 6 AD; that's 10 full years after the death of Herod and a full 12 years after the time Matthew gives for the birth of Christ.

Would you please help me understand this contradiction within Luke and between Luke and Matthew? Thanks!

Bigred1995

Posts: 1,042

Dec 29, 2010 7:22pm

Bigred1995;616106 wrote:You can start with "teh" one I posted...

ttt for the benefit of jmog; I wouldn't want him to forget about me!

Heelz

Posts: 780

Dec 29, 2010 8:13pm

jmog;615985 wrote:I've read teh Bible cover to cover a number of times, care to point out the "so many contradictions"?

Well starting with the idea of Heaven, in the beginning it states that everyone goes to the same place "Sheol" which is just a subteranian pit that everyone goes to regardless of moral choices in life. Then later in the bible it talkes of the kingdom of heaven and the idea of Sheol is forgotten