Job-Related Ethical Advice ...

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O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:22 PM
I JUST started working a new job this week. Today, I was given my actual placement. I'll be managing marketing campaigns for certain "non-profit" groups.

The problem is, I don't agree with the principles that these groups stand for. They are religiously and/or politically motivated groups, and while I may share SOME sentiments with them, their big campaigns are ones on which I disagree with them.

However, marketing is marketing, and I'm able to do it for them, and do it as successfully as if the circumstances were different.

So I suppose the question is, if you were in my position, would you voice your view? Would you tell them that even though you were willing and able to run a successful campaign for the clients, you had objections to the causes they're currently pushing?
Dec 16, 2010 8:22pm
Ty Webb's avatar

Ty Webb

Senior Member

2,798 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:24 PM
I wouldn't be bitching about having a job when it took you soo long to find one
Dec 16, 2010 8:24pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:25 PM
Shut up and market, get the experience and move on to something you'll feel better about yourself. Being out of work is the alternative and I know how long it took for you to get what you have. It really is inconsequential imo.
Dec 16, 2010 8:25pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:27 PM
Ty Webb;603508 wrote:I wouldn't be bitching about having a job when it took you soo long to find one

Don't misunderstand. I am happy to have my job, and I LOVE the marketing side of it.

However, if you had spent a year finding a job, accepted one, and then were given the responsibility for raising funds for (and this is not at all the case, or even the severity, I don't think) Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, would you ask your superior about it, given that you trust that he is going to hear you out?
Dec 16, 2010 8:27pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:28 PM
It appears your job is to be their marketer, not a part of their underlying cause. They likely aren't interested in your viewpoint other than your marketing skills. Not that you should take offense to that, it is just what you do.
Dec 16, 2010 8:28pm
Ty Webb's avatar

Ty Webb

Senior Member

2,798 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:29 PM
O-Trap;603513 wrote:Don't misunderstand. I am happy to have my job, and I LOVE the marketing side of it.

However, if you had spent a year finding a job, accepted one, and then were given the responsibility for raising funds for (and this is not at all the case, or even the severity, I don't think) Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, would you ask your superior about it, given that you trust that he is going to hear you out?
I would do whatever my supervisor asked me to
Dec 16, 2010 8:29pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:29 PM
ytownfootball;603511 wrote:Shut up and market, get the experience and move on to something you'll feel better about yourself. Being out of work is the alternative and I know how long it took for you to get what you have. It really is inconsequential imo.
Yeah. I am CERTAINLY not saying I'd quit the job. I was thinking more along the lines of asking about a different department or something like that. I can block that out and do the job, but I struggle with aiding the success of a cause I'm against.
Dec 16, 2010 8:29pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:31 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;603514 wrote:It appears your job is to be their marketer, not a part of their underlying cause. They likely aren't interested in your viewpoint other than your marketing skills. Not that you should take offense to that, it is just what you do.

Hmm ... that explanation seems to make sense. I hate feeling like I HAVE to detach myself from it, because it would be me not "smoking what I'm selling," as it's said.

Push comes to shove, if my options are to either do it or be unemployed, I'm doing it. It just bugs me, I suppose. I think your way of explaining it makes sense to me, though. Thanks.
Dec 16, 2010 8:31pm
coyotes22's avatar

coyotes22

Go Tigers

11,298 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:43 PM
That would be a tough situation to be in, esp for work.

But, as someone else said, kinda grit your teeth, take the experience, and see if it gets you moved up the ladder, and on to better things, that you are comfortable with.

Good luck.
Dec 16, 2010 8:43pm
Mohican00's avatar

Mohican00

Dirty White Boy

3,394 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:50 PM
The underlying problem will always reveal itself in some way. If I were in your shoes I'd bite my tongue and keep plugging away at job opportunities.
Dec 16, 2010 8:50pm
E

enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Dec 16, 2010 8:55 PM
Do you feel strongly enough about the principles that representing them (or, selling them to people) is compromising your integrity? If your job was to sell broken shit to people and make them believe it was a good product, would you do it just because you haven't had a job in awhile? You going to be proud of yourself looking in the mirror knowing that you helped launch a bunch of hogwash?
Dec 16, 2010 8:55pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 9:05 PM
enigmaax;603545 wrote:Do you feel strongly enough about the principles that representing them (or, selling them to people) is compromising your integrity? If your job was to sell broken shit to people and make them believe it was a good product, would you do it just because you haven't had a job in awhile? You going to be proud of yourself looking in the mirror knowing that you helped launch a bunch of hogwash?

That first question is, I guess, the one I'm wrestling with.

I try to have integrity. Sometimes I don't, but I try when I'm cognizant of it.
Dec 16, 2010 9:05pm
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

Senior Member

8,651 posts
Dec 16, 2010 9:08 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;603514 wrote:It appears your job is to be their marketer, not a part of their underlying cause. They likely aren't interested in your viewpoint other than your marketing skills. Not that you should take offense to that, it is just what you do.

I think that's great advice.
Dec 16, 2010 9:08pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Dec 16, 2010 9:16 PM
Don't take offense O, but shit rolls down hill and lands at the feet of the new guy. Once you've been there awhile and proven to tow the company line irrespective of personal conflicts, chances are pretty good it will be recognized and allowances will be made as far as choosing your assignments.

If work was always something you wanted or liked doing it would be called something else. It's not easy to go against principles founded on personal beliefs, but rewards generally come of it from my experience, at least as it pertains to work :)
Dec 16, 2010 9:16pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 9:20 PM
Thanks, ytown!
Dec 16, 2010 9:20pm
Apple's avatar

Apple

Prost!

2,620 posts
Dec 16, 2010 11:07 PM
O-Trap, I find myself in conflict with some of the things I do at work. I too work in the marketing dept. and there are times the department advocates things that go against my political beliefs and it irritate me and I sometimes feel like a hypocrite. Sometimes I feel like screaming "NO!!!!!!" But as others here have said, I just grit my teeth and remember I need the paycheck. I understand your situation and also know you are a professional and will act so accordingly. If the job becomes a big problem with you personally, you'll know when to respond to change your situation.
Dec 16, 2010 11:07pm
Murdski99's avatar

Murdski99

Senior Member

399 posts
Dec 16, 2010 11:38 PM
This is dumb, you get paid to do marketing...don't let something retarded as that slip out to a superior(especially when it's concerning religion lol)
Dec 16, 2010 11:38pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 16, 2010 11:48 PM
So, Murdski, if you WERE hired and assigned a marketing position for Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, you'd be A-Okay with it, and you'd be able to do your job without any reservation? Filming videos about God hating gay people and hating America in general?

Like I said, this isn't on THAT kind of scale, and I would have to speak up in a case like that, but the issue is the same.
Dec 16, 2010 11:48pm
Murdski99's avatar

Murdski99

Senior Member

399 posts
Dec 17, 2010 12:34 AM
O-Trap;603745 wrote:So, Murdski, if you WERE hired and assigned a marketing position for Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, you'd be A-Okay with it, and you'd be able to do your job without any reservation? Filming videos about God hating gay people and hating America in general?

Like I said, this isn't on THAT kind of scale, and I would have to speak up in a case like that, but the issue is the same.

Yes I would, because that is what you are getting paid to do. Don't be a pussy when it comes to your religion, just ignore it and get the job done. Doesn't mean you believe in what they believe if you do your job.
Dec 17, 2010 12:34am
TBone14's avatar

TBone14

Senior Member

6,383 posts
Dec 17, 2010 1:50 AM
You are a professional marketer, you gotta do your job. You arn't going to get nonprofit types to change their mind, they only you can get is yourself thrown off the project, which would not be a good start to the job. If you are a defense lawyer, sometimes you gotta represent guilty people. Stuff like this comes with the territory and it is best if you just keep doing great work and keep your mouth shut. You won't be marketing for them forever.
Dec 17, 2010 1:50am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Dec 17, 2010 6:06 AM
O-Trap;603745 wrote:So, Murdski, if you WERE hired and assigned a marketing position for Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, you'd be A-Okay with it, and you'd be able to do your job without any reservation? Filming videos about God hating gay people and hating America in general?

The time to worry about that is when you decide whether to take the job.
Dec 17, 2010 6:06am
E

enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Dec 17, 2010 7:19 AM
O-Trap;603745 wrote:So, Murdski, if you WERE hired and assigned a marketing position for Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, you'd be A-Okay with it, and you'd be able to do your job without any reservation? Filming videos about God hating gay people and hating America in general?

Like I said, this isn't on THAT kind of scale, and I would have to speak up in a case like that, but the issue is the same.

That is kind of what I was getting at with my questions. Your example here shows a clear line for you - you probably wouldn't take/do the job if you felt that strongly about the subject/client/customer. To me (in agreement with most people here), you either feel so strongly about it that you won't compromise your own beliefs (otherwise, you are a hypocrite) or you really don't feel that strongly about it, in which case, voicing your opinion is pointless and self-defeating. You aren't going to change anyone's opinion, other than causing them to perhaps question your ability to truly and fully commit to doing the job they are asking of you.
Dec 17, 2010 7:19am
D

Def Leopard

Senior Member

176 posts
Dec 17, 2010 10:54 AM
It all boils down to two choices; eat or starve.
You make the choice.
Dec 17, 2010 10:54am
Scarlet_Buckeye's avatar

Scarlet_Buckeye

Senior Member

5,264 posts
Dec 17, 2010 11:08 AM
You should not express your "personal" views to your client. You need to separate the two.
Dec 17, 2010 11:08am
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Dec 17, 2010 5:00 PM
Murdski99;603777 wrote:Yes I would, because that is what you are getting paid to do. Don't be a pussy when it comes to your religion, just ignore it and get the job done. Doesn't mean you believe in what they believe if you do your job.
A pussy buckles and does what is easiest ... simply because a pussy always chooses the least-painful route. It's what makes them a pussy.

Specifically, my clients try to USE religion to influence votes, fund campaigns, etc. They want to force religious views into politics, so long as those views are their own. One of them, specifically, has some very ignorant views of people of some other faiths.

Essentially, what you're saying is, my job should come before my integrity? Do I have that right? In the example I gave, the fact that you would be spreading a hateful message wouldn't be a problem, so long as you were collecting a paycheck to do it?

Can't say I'd ever considered the possibility of coming across someone who would rather help hateful, mean-spirited people than be poor.

Just trying to make sure I'm clear.
TBone14;603813 wrote:You are a professional marketer, you gotta do your job. You arn't going to get nonprofit types to change their mind, they only you can get is yourself thrown off the project, which would not be a good start to the job. If you are a defense lawyer, sometimes you gotta represent guilty people. Stuff like this comes with the territory and it is best if you just keep doing great work and keep your mouth shut. You won't be marketing for them forever.
This is one of the two options I'm considering.
queencitybuckeye;603848 wrote:The time to worry about that is when you decide whether to take the job.
THIS aspect of the job wasn't assigned to me until after orientation, let alone interviews or accepting the job.
Scarlet_Buckeye;604031 wrote:You should not express your "personal" views to your client. You need to separate the two.

Oh, I would NEVER express them to a client, even if I agree with them. If I voiced it to ANYONE, it would probably be to HR, I think.
Dec 17, 2010 5:00pm