General OSU Discussion

Home ▸ Archive ▸ College Sports ▸ General OSU Discussion
Jester's avatar

Jester

Valedictorian Hater

700 posts
Dec 14, 2010 2:59 PM
Just wanted to start a thread for the Buckeyes for the entire season. Allow people to throw out their thoughts, ideas, and predictions.

For me, right now I think this team can be really good, but I haven't seen enough against quality competition to know just how good they'll be. There are a couple things that concern me.

For one, when the game is on the line, who will the Buckeyes look too? Will they put it in the hands of the true freshman Sullinger, or do they go with someone more experienced like Lighty or Buford? They've never really been in a game where they needed someone to make big plays in crunch time. And with the way the Big Ten is this season, they may need someone to do that quite often.

Also, I'm not really sure I like the rotation Matta has. I think it would be best serve the team to start Craft and bring Diebler in off the bench. Craft plays great D and gives the team a natural PG to get the offense going. Also, after Lauderdale and Sully, who do the Bucks go to down low, if one or both of them get into foul trouble. A rotation only 7 deep means a lot of players are logging big minutes, and if a couple get in foul trouble, then it's really bad news. Teams like Minnesota and Michigan State are going to be able to throw a lot of bigs at Lauderdale and Sully.

Right now, i'd give this team a 2nd place finish in the Big Ten, and maybe an Elite 8 appearance, depending on the draw. Haven't seen enough out of them to think they'll perform any better than that.

So, what say you? Lets hear some others thoughts and opinions.
Dec 14, 2010 2:59pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Dec 15, 2010 8:38 PM
I think there's enough talent on this team that they don't need a 'go to' guy. I think that's actually a good thing, because not knowing where the ball is going will keep teams off balance and could lead to open looks in important situations.

I don't see many great teams out there this year. I think it really looks like Duke at the top, 3-4 teams in the next tier (OSU being one of them), and then the next level of 20+ teams. This should be at least an Elite 8 team barring a horrible draw.

I'm not sure it's a championship team, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. This team can D it up too, which will be huge come Big 10 play.
Dec 15, 2010 8:38pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 16, 2010 12:33 PM
Diebler off the bench doesn't make sense because he's your best outside threat. And with defenses focused on stopping Sully inside, it typically ends up giving Diebler great looks when the ball is kicked out. Not to mention, teams then have to choose between focusing their defense inside or outside, and a decision either way could end up killing them.

I'm not concerned about a "go to" guy at this point. There are literally three guys on this team who could break down a defense and get you a winning shot, if needed. They are Buford, Lighty, and Sullinger. Then you have the threat of Diebler hitting one from outside if any of those takes the ball inside and the defense collapses.

Matta has more options this year offensively than he's ever had, even including the Oden-Conley bunch. Oden wasn't as polished offensively and Conley didn't really hit his stride until the second half of the season.

Right now, I'm more concerned with this team losing focus in games, and being a bit inconsistent in their shooting. Buford seems to be in a bit of a shooting slump, and Lighty hasn't been much better. Those two need to start heating up a bit before Big Ten play starts.

The Bucks have two pretty decent games coming up this week and next with S. Carolina and then Oakland. That will hopefully help them sharpen things up a bit before the Big Ten schedule begins.

Oh and I see no reason why this team can't repeat as Big Ten champions. Matta has shown a knack for putting together very good league contenders in his time at OSU. Arguably better than any other coach in the Big Ten.
Dec 16, 2010 12:33pm
bigdaddy2003's avatar

bigdaddy2003

Senior Member

7,384 posts
Dec 16, 2010 12:44 PM
Yeah, Dieibler off the bench doesn't make much sense. I see them winning the Big Ten. I don't know how far they will make it in the tourney though.
Dec 16, 2010 12:44pm
0

0311sdp

Senior Member

580 posts
Dec 16, 2010 2:07 PM
I see a dogfight for the Big Ten title with maybe 4-5 losses being good enough to get at least a piece. The buckeyes need to work on consistancy, the talent level is there but they are young after Diebler, Buford, Leighty, and Lauderdale. DeShaun Thomas will be key to having a great season. The first 6 are pretty solid, it will be 7 thru 9 that decide how good and how far this team can go.
Dec 16, 2010 2:07pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 16, 2010 2:25 PM
0311sdp;603063 wrote: it will be 7 thru 9 that decide how good and how far this team can go.

No it will not.
Dec 16, 2010 2:25pm
C

centralbucksfan

Senior Member

5,111 posts
Dec 16, 2010 2:34 PM
Nothing or no one in particular will decide how far this team goes. As usual, much will depend on the draw, on a matchup and just how well OSU plays. As Matta has said, when this team puts it all together and everyone is on...they will be difficult to beat with the balance they have. Its quite obvious by now that Matta is only going 7 deep, with Siebert seeing occasional time.
The good thing about this team, compared to last year...is that balance and post presence in Sully. Last year, that team went how Turner went..period. And he carried that team. This team is different with more weapons on outside AND an inside post player.
Dec 16, 2010 2:34pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 16, 2010 3:05 PM
centralbucksfan;603100 wrote:Nothing or no one in particular will decide how far this team goes.

Sorry but I completely disagree with this as well. So you are saying that if Sullinger goes down with an injury tomorrow and misses the rest of the season it won't affect how far this team goes?

Sullinger is by far the best and most valuable player on this team. They go as far as he can take them. Yes, they have the capabilities to overcome an average game by him, but don't think in a big game if he scores 3 points OSU can overcome that.
Dec 16, 2010 3:05pm
Jester's avatar

Jester

Valedictorian Hater

700 posts
Dec 16, 2010 3:29 PM
Evidently I see Diebler's game different from everyone else. Yes he's an pretty good outside shooter, although rather streaky. Other than that, he doesn't do much. Not a great defender or rebounder and he isn't very athletic. Doesn't have that great of ball handling skills either. I've noticed he does seem to drop it down low to Sully quite often though. I'm a big fan of Craft, and simply believe he brings more to the team than Diebler does. Great defender, pretty good passer, and although maybe not as good as Diebler, he can knock down open shots. I mean you could always bring Diebler in and leave him in there with Sully, thus giving the inside-outside presence mentioned above. Just my opinion though.

And I somewhat agree on the post about the 7-9 players that will determine how far this team goes. We all know the starting five are pretty good, but come Big Ten and NCAA Tourney time, you're going to need your bench players to provide some quality minutes. Outside of Craft, not sure who can provide that. Guys like Thomas and Sibert still have a long way to go.
Dec 16, 2010 3:29pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 16, 2010 3:36 PM
Jester;603150 wrote:And I somewhat agree on the post about the 7-9 players that will determine how far this team goes. We all know the starting five are pretty good, but come Big Ten and NCAA Tourney time, you're going to need your bench players to provide some quality minutes.
I agree with Big 10 play, but couldn't disagree more regarding the tournament. You want your guys to be fresh heading into the tournament and then you play your best 5 as many minutes as possible. There are extended TV timeouts and you don't use your bench guys for more than a couple minutes at a time.
Dec 16, 2010 3:36pm
bigdaddy2003's avatar

bigdaddy2003

Senior Member

7,384 posts
Dec 16, 2010 3:37 PM
You see I think Diebler is a decent defender myself.
Dec 16, 2010 3:37pm
Jester's avatar

Jester

Valedictorian Hater

700 posts
Dec 16, 2010 3:45 PM
thedynasty1998;603156 wrote:I agree with Big 10 play, but couldn't disagree more regarding the tournament. You want your guys to be fresh heading into the tournament and then you play your best 5 as many minutes as possible. There are extended TV timeouts and you don't use your bench guys for more than a couple minutes at a time.
You may not want to use your bench players, but there are times when you have to, and when you have to, you still want them to perform well. This team doesn't have a lot of room for players to get in foul trouble. If Sully or Lauderdale, or both, get in foul trouble, this team is in big trouble.
Dec 16, 2010 3:45pm
Jester's avatar

Jester

Valedictorian Hater

700 posts
Dec 16, 2010 3:48 PM
bigdaddy2003;603159 wrote:You see I think Diebler is a decent defender myself.
Diebler CAN play decent defense, but it depends on who he's playing it against. I don't think he's athletic enough to guard some of the better guards in the Big Ten and in the nation.
Dec 16, 2010 3:48pm
C

centralbucksfan

Senior Member

5,111 posts
Dec 16, 2010 6:41 PM
thedynasty1998;603128 wrote:Sorry but I completely disagree with this as well. So you are saying that if Sullinger goes down with an injury tomorrow and misses the rest of the season it won't affect how far this team goes?

Sullinger is by far the best and most valuable player on this team. They go as far as he can take them. Yes, they have the capabilities to overcome an average game by him, but don't think in a big game if he scores 3 points OSU can overcome that.
And if Deibler, Lighty, Craft or Buford went down, OSU would be in deep shit as well. DUH. They all play an integral part on this team. Thats a no brainer above. That wasn't my point.
Dec 16, 2010 6:41pm
B

Big Gain

Senior Member

2,073 posts
Dec 17, 2010 12:16 AM
Matta says Diebler is the "pillar" of this team. The type of player that epitomizes what he see's as Ohio State basketball. The Freshmen look to Diebler more than any other player.

Diebler's defense has improved every year, but he will NEVER be called upon to guard "some of the better guards in the Big Ten and in the nation". What do you suppose Lighty's job is??

Currently there are FOUR players on the team who have taken more shots than Diebler, yet Diebler is 2nd on the team in scoring. Diebler has by far the best assist to turnover ratio on the team. Why would Matta want to sit the "pillar" of his team, the player least likely to turn the ball over and the most efficient scorer on his team?

I too think it could be any player who takes the big shot in a close game. This team has a lot of weapons and it could depend on who's hot and not, what the opponent is doing defensively and who they are trying to take away. Pick your poison.
Dec 17, 2010 12:16am
B

Big Gain

Senior Member

2,073 posts
Dec 17, 2010 12:29 AM
Jester;603178 wrote:You may not want to use your bench players, but there are times when you have to, and when you have to, you still want them to perform well. This team doesn't have a lot of room for players to get in foul trouble. If Sully or Lauderdale, or both, get in foul trouble, this team is in big trouble.
Thomas is doing a very nice job playing the 4 spot, you completely forgot about him in your supposition. He's scoring in double figures and is 2nd on the team in rebounds/minutes played. ANY team would have a problem if their 2 best big men were in foul trouble at the same time. DUH!

The first seven can be counted on in just about any situation, now that Thomas has learned he's not supposed to shoot every time he touches the ball. When Sibert plays, his only job is not to do something stupid. In a close game that's it and is MORE than sufficient. How soon we forget how short the bench was last year.
Dec 17, 2010 12:29am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 17, 2010 9:22 AM
Jester;603178 wrote:You may not want to use your bench players, but there are times when you have to, and when you have to, you still want them to perform well. This team doesn't have a lot of room for players to get in foul trouble. If Sully or Lauderdale, or both, get in foul trouble, this team is in big trouble.
You bench in the NCAA tournament is 2 players (at least for OSU), so your #8 and #9 guys are irrelevant, which was my point.
centralbucksfan;603403 wrote:And if Deibler, Lighty, Craft or Buford went down, OSU would be in deep shit as well. DUH. They all play an integral part on this team. Thats a no brainer above. That wasn't my point.

I don't believe that. OSU could lose any of those four and still be a top 10 team. Obviously it would hurt the team, but to say Sullinger doesn't have more value than those four is just wrong. And to say that one player doesn't determine how far this team goes, would you say the same thing last year? No. Well I would argue that Sullinger has just as much value as Turner did, if not more.
Dec 17, 2010 9:22am
0

0311sdp

Senior Member

580 posts
Dec 17, 2010 9:43 AM
There will be times in the regular season and NCAA tournement when OSU will be forced to use more than 6 players (starters plus Craft) You say Thomas has learned to not shoot everytime he touches the ball, when did this happen? He was freakin horrible in the game with Florida Gulf Coast and he did shoot the first time he touched the ball (air ball from the corner) These next 3 guys 7-9 are going to have to be developed or this team will not win the Big Ten and will exit early in the tournement. The guys have the talent, they just need playing time in game situations.. Matta does a very good job getting them minutes for the most part.
Dec 17, 2010 9:43am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 17, 2010 10:00 AM
0311sdp;603946 wrote:There will be times in the regular season and NCAA tournement when OSU will be forced to use more than 6 players (starters plus Craft) You say Thomas has learned to not shoot everytime he touches the ball, when did this happen? He was freakin horrible in the game with Florida Gulf Coast and he did shoot the first time he touched the ball (air ball from the corner) These next 3 guys 7-9 are going to have to be developed or this team will not win the Big Ten and will exit early in the tournement. The guys have the talent, they just need playing time in game situations.. Matta does a very good job getting them minutes for the most part.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but OSU has Craft, Diebler, Buford, Lighty and Sullinger who will get a bulk of the minutes in the tournament. You have Lauderdale and Thomas off the bench. That's all they need in the tournament.
Dec 17, 2010 10:00am
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
Dec 17, 2010 11:41 AM
Jester;603150 wrote:Evidently I see Diebler's game different from everyone else. Yes he's an pretty good outside shooter, although rather streaky. Other than that, he doesn't do much. Not a great defender or rebounder and he isn't very athletic. Doesn't have that great of ball handling skills either. I've noticed he does seem to drop it down low to Sully quite often though. I'm a big fan of Craft, and simply believe he brings more to the team than Diebler does. Great defender, pretty good passer, and although maybe not as good as Diebler, he can knock down open shots. I mean you could always bring Diebler in and leave him in there with Sully, thus giving the inside-outside presence mentioned above. Just my opinion though.

And I somewhat agree on the post about the 7-9 players that will determine how far this team goes. We all know the starting five are pretty good, but come Big Ten and NCAA Tourney time, you're going to need your bench players to provide some quality minutes. Outside of Craft, not sure who can provide that. Guys like Thomas and Sibert still have a long way to go.

More nonsense about Diebler not based in fact. A "pretty good" outside shooter? LOL. He's almost a lock to end up as the Big Ten's all-time leading 3 point scorer, and his percentage of made 3 pointers has risen every season, and that percentage is better than most. As for his ball handling skills or ability to create...THAT'S NOT HIS ROLE ON THE TEAM. And why would you compare a PG to a SG or wing player? They aren't supposed to do the same things. Not every player needs to be able to do everything. In Matta's system he has specialists that blend together and create a team very difficult to beat.

It amazes me how many fans watch basketball but have so little understanding of the team concept and players having specific roles on that team. Perhaps it's an NBA mentality where you see so much more one on one play.
Dec 17, 2010 11:41am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Dec 17, 2010 12:37 PM
Writer I agree with you. To make an NBA comparison....

Jon Diebler's role = Kyle Korver's role

No one cares that Korver doesn't score inside because he's a lights out shooter, but he can score on a pump fake and driver, just like Diebler can.

I'm very happy with Diebler's game I just hope he doesn't go cold in a big game.
Dec 17, 2010 12:37pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Dec 17, 2010 12:38 PM
If Diebler ever goes down, Sully's game will be hurt alot. Diebler is the only guy that stretches the offense for OSU, without him, the D collapses, and OSU would struggle to stay in the top 10. Not to mention it would hurt the ability of Lighty and Buford to get to the basket.
Dec 17, 2010 12:38pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 17, 2010 12:50 PM
se-alum;604158 wrote:If Diebler ever goes down, Sully's game will be hurt alot. Diebler is the only guy that stretches the offense for OSU, without him, the D collapses, and OSU would struggle to stay in the top 10. Not to mention it would hurt the ability of Lighty and Buford to get to the basket.

Yes, Diebler keeps the floor spaced for not only Sullinger, but others as well. However, Buford and Lighty are both threats as well, so it's not like he's the only guy that can be that outside threat. That's why this team is a great combination. You have the guy on the block that can score and three guys on the outside that can knock down perimeter shots (I actually think Craft is a solid shooter as well). It's just a lot harder to double down on Sullinger with those threats.
Dec 17, 2010 12:50pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Dec 17, 2010 1:41 PM
thedynasty1998;604172 wrote:Yes, Diebler keeps the floor spaced for not only Sullinger, but others as well. However, Buford and Lighty are both threats as well, so it's not like he's the only guy that can be that outside threat. That's why this team is a great combination. You have the guy on the block that can score and three guys on the outside that can knock down perimeter shots (I actually think Craft is a solid shooter as well). It's just a lot harder to double down on Sullinger with those threats.
Buford is shooting 32% from 3, and Lighty is around 34%. Sure, they would have some games where they hit a few, but I can't see any team fearing Buford and Lighty from the outside over Sullinger's inside game.
Dec 17, 2010 1:41pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
Dec 17, 2010 2:17 PM
se-alum;604245 wrote:Buford is shooting 32% from 3, and Lighty is around 34%. Sure, they would have some games where they hit a few, but I can't see any team fearing Buford and Lighty from the outside over Sullinger's inside game.

That's actually not that bad of a shooting percentage.
Dec 17, 2010 2:17pm