wes_mantooth;550248 wrote:I am excited about this Browns team, but this playoff talk is crazy. You cannot blow two games(or 3) and expect to get the wildcard in the AFC. If they would have taken care of business against TB and KC, then it would be a different story.

Yea, the Browns are not making the playoffs. It will take 10-6 to get a Wildcard.

i think its crazy the Browns are leading the poll 15-2.

I drain 3's;550244 wrote:So what do you put stock in?

Those numbers are from ESPN Stats & Information. They chart things like this every game. I'd say they know what is usually considered a catchable pass and what isn't.

Most passes that a receiver gets his hands on in the NFL is catchable. You could have 10 passes that are catchable but still fall under the overthrown or underthrown categories.

I agree Brady was off but his receivers could've helped him out a lot more. In another game like this week against the Jets, guys like Braylon and Santonio might catch a lot more of those borderline passes and the Browns secondary will not fair as well. I still think it's kind of a weak pass defense and only an average defense overall. The overall stats support that.

Browns defense is 11th in points per game, 21st in yards per game, 15th in rush defense, 24th in pass defense, 21st in sacks and they're a 3-5 team.

wes_mantooth;549592 wrote:I am waiting for some of the Steeler fans like Heretic to take that approach as well.

Shit, when it isn't a Steelers game I root for the Browns a lot. Especially when they're playing teams that have better records than they do. Helps Pittsburgh out a bit in case they don't win the division (assuming they're AFC teams Cleveland is beating).

I rooted for Cleveland also yesterday. If it helps the Steelers I'm in.

And I'll be pulling for them next week as well.

Non;550259 wrote:Most passes that a receiver gets his hands on in the NFL is catchable. You could have 10 passes that are catchable but still fall under the overthrown or underthrown categories.

I agree Brady was off but his receivers could've helped him out a lot more. In another game like this week against the Jets, guys like Braylon and Santonio might catch a lot more of those borderline passes and the Browns secondary will not fair as well. I still think it's kind of a weak pass defense and only an average defense overall. The overall stats support that.

Browns defense is 11th in points per game, 21st in yards per game, 15th in rush defense, 24th in pass defense, 21st in sacks and they're a 3-5 team.

Catchable in the NFL isn't nearly as obvious at you make it seem. A catchable ball for Brandon Tate is a lot different than a catchable ball for Larry Fitzgerald. Brady was off on his accuracy, as evident by the numbers. When you're throwing behind, over, and at the feet of your receivers, it's not the receivers fault. They're not dropping "catchable" balls, they're dropping poorly thrown balls.

Also, I'm not going back through this whole thread, but I don't think anyone is saying the Browns defense is great. I'd say the consensus is that it's better than last year's, which i'd say is a true statement.

It was better for New England to get their second loss, I agree.

Browns better play like this against Baltimore next time.

Art Modell;550269 wrote:And I'll be pulling for them next week as well.

Nice pussy cop out you got going there. Trying to set yourself up with a win-win situation. If the Browns win you can try to act like a good guy that you rooted for them because they helped pittsburgh. If they lose you can be the idiot troll that you always are.

GTFO we don't need/want your support.

wes_mantooth;550248 wrote:I am excited about this Browns team, but this playoff talk is crazy. You cannot blow two games(or 3) and expect to get the wildcard in the AFC. If they would have taken care of business against TB and KC, then it would be a different story.

nonsense, we're on the playoff push

se-alum;550251 wrote:Yea, the Browns are not making the playoffs. It will take 10-6 to get a Wildcard.

good thing we're winning 11 then lol

I drain 3's;550279 wrote:Catchable in the NFL isn't nearly as obvious at you make it seem. A catchable ball for Brandon Tate is a lot different than a catchable ball for Larry Fitzgerald. Brady was off on his accuracy, as evident by the numbers. When you're throwing behind, over, and at the feet of your receivers, it's not the receivers fault. They're not dropping "catchable" balls, they're dropping poorly thrown balls.

Also, I'm not going back through this whole thread, but I don't think anyone is saying the Browns defense is great. I'd say the consensus is that it's better than last year's, which i'd say is a true statement.

It's really impossible to put a general rule on this because so many plays are different but I would say a lot of catchable passes can also be considered not perfectly thrown or slightly inaccurate. I can't take that ESPN system as being completely accurate.

Non;550294 wrote: I can't take that ESPN system as being completely accurate.

Yeah, we know you can't. Because it goes against your logic; so it must be inaccurate.

I Wear Pants;550261 wrote:Shit, when it isn't a Steelers game I root for the Browns a lot. Especially when they're playing teams that have better records than they do. Helps Pittsburgh out a bit in case they don't win the division (assuming they're AFC teams Cleveland is beating).

Indeed. Watching Cleveland beat New England brought a smile to my face. Them beating the Jets would, as well. And you still have a game left with Baltimore. Just don't let all that positive stuff carry over to Jan. 2 and all will be well!

dazedconfused;550282 wrote:nonsense, we're on the playoff push



good thing we're winning 11 then lol

Kind of early to be drinking isnt it?

Art Modell;550297 wrote:Kind of early to be drinking isnt it?

It's never early to be drinking. NEVER!

So, just for shits and giggles, lets just say the Browns win the next 6 games to go to 9-5. The last 2 games at home against Baltimore and Piittsburg would be very interesting. After the Jets this weekend, the next 5 are against considerably easier opponents.

Non;550259 wrote:Most passes that a receiver gets his hands on in the NFL is catchable. You could have 10 passes that are catchable but still fall under the overthrown or underthrown categories.

I agree Brady was off but his receivers could've helped him out a lot more. In another game like this week against the Jets, guys like Braylon and Santonio might catch a lot more of those borderline passes and the Browns secondary will not fair as well. I still think it's kind of a weak pass defense and only an average defense overall. The overall stats support that.

Browns defense is 11th in points per game, 21st in yards per game, 15th in rush defense, 24th in pass defense, 21st in sacks and they're a 3-5 team.

Anybody who watches the games know that the only defensive stat that matters is PPG.

The first few games Cleveland's offense left the defense on the filed for much of the game. Of course teams are going to rack up yardage when their offenses are on the field for most of the game.

However, the Browns very rarely give up big point totals. Not only that, but they've only allowed 1 rushing TD this year.

The Browns defense is playoff caliber, however, the offense is "starting" to catch-up.

I predicted 6-10 at worst, 8-8 ideal, and 9-7 at best in the offseason. I don't think we'll get to the 9-7 mark, but 8-8 is feasible now.

We also may have found our QB of the future, which would allow us to draft a WR, focus on the right side of the line, and more defense in the next draft.

SportsAndLady;550295 wrote:Yeah, we know you can't. Because it goes against your logic; so it must be inaccurate.

I explained why I don't agree. And it makes sense if you think about it.

The NFL has become a huge passing league with a lot of big, athletic receivers. Receivers are making somewhat difficult catches look routine all the time.

There might be 20 passes that hit off a receivers hands and you're not sure if it was catchable or inaccurate or both. If somebody is charting that, it's just going to be an opinion.

Ultimately, I realize Brady struggled more than usual. All it took was watching the game to see that but as the game went on it was clear the inexperienced receivers were a problem, too. Not being in the right position. Not knowing the play call. Not coming down with some passes -- and I think more than two that were catchable, despite what those ESPN stats suggest.

The Browns have faced some other good QBs like Flacco and Roethlisberger and the secondary gave up big plays.

I agree with NON. Defenses can't possibly evolve and get better as the season goes. The only logical explanation is that all the receivers that helped the Pats get to 6-1, fell flat on their faces yesterday! You Browns fans are so delusional!! A defense improving....psshhhhhhh!!

the Fighting Mangini's do it again (and then we get to hear Greenie whine about it on Mike and Mike on Monday morning)...GO BROWNIES!!!!!

se-alum;550327 wrote:I agree with NON. Defenses can't possibly evolve and get better as the season goes. The only logical explanation is that all the receivers that helped the Pats get to 6-1, fell flat on their faces yesterday! You Browns fans are so delusional!! A defense improving....psshhhhhhh!!

I was going to post something about our defense improving. the last 2 games are evidence.

Question to fellow Browns fans...

Is our defense better or is it a gimmick defense that teams will catch on to? I think that they are disguising things so well that it will be tough for any team to solve....no matter how much film they have on it.

royal_k;550337 wrote:I was going to post something about our defense improving. the last 2 games are evidence.

They played better but I think they have to perform that way for a longer stretch. How much of it is the Browns defense and how much is it the other teams just having off weeks and the Browns getting somewhat lucky? Too small of a sampling.

wes_mantooth;550340 wrote:Question to fellow Browns fans...

Is our defense better or is it a gimmick defense that teams will catch on to? I think that they are disguising things so well that it will be tough for any team to solve....no matter how much film they have on it.

Roethlisberger has said it is the most confusing defense he plays against each year. The Browns just haven't had the personnel to be terribly successful at it. Though I still think they need some more playmakers to make it as good as it could be, they are on the right track.

Non;550259 wrote:Most passes that a receiver gets his hands on in the NFL is catchable. You could have 10 passes that are catchable but still fall under the overthrown or underthrown categories.

I agree Brady was off but his receivers could've helped him out a lot more. In another game like this week against the Jets, guys like Braylon and Santonio might catch a lot more of those borderline passes and the Browns secondary will not fair as well. I still think it's kind of a weak pass defense and only an average defense overall. The overall stats support that.

Browns defense is 11th in points per game, 21st in yards per game, 15th in rush defense, 24th in pass defense, 21st in sacks and they're a 3-5 team.

1. If you think Braylon will make more of those catches you haven't watched his career.
2. I don't think anyone is saying that the Browns D is "lights out", you are right, they are about average with the potential to be good. No one is denying that.
3. At 3-5 anyone talking WC for the Browns needs to check their meds. 8-8 is realistic, 9-7 is slightly possible, but the 10-6 it will take to get a WC birth is nearly impossible. We will not go 7-1 the rest of the season.