Bashing the Catholic Church sure is popular lately it seems. Just saw a preview of Tom Hanks in another "bash the Catholic church" movie theme. Lot of money to be made on this topic I guess.

Indeed. I thought it was just me who noticed :rolleyes:

unique_67 wrote:

.....The Roman Catholic Church has plenty of it's "shepherds" who do not follow all the rules, so why pick on members of the flock for not following all of the rules? ....
.

Do you know for sure that the parish priests that tend these sheep don't ask them to abstain from the sacraments if they know that they are doing something contrary to the church's beliefs?

Prescott,

I'm talking about Priests that do not abide by all the teachings of the church, not the every day person.

^^^such as?

We are talking about being denied the sacraments, which is about being in willful conflict with church teachings and in grievous sin.

Such as, the priests that molest children, and rather than being removed from the priesthood get transferred to another parish or diocese. That would be one example right off the top of my head.

Yes yes....all Catholic bashing threads usually include this. Old news...most of the problem was 20+ years ago. At least 8 years ago, the church formally apologized to the victims, made what restitution it could, and removed(s) those who violate.

Tobin is so full of himself that it isn't funny. I remember for confirmation, he gave us pictures of him with a prayer on the back lol. What do I want a picture of you for?

^^^pretty standard stuff as the bishop who confirmed you. You obviouslyare not required to venerate or even keep the picture.

So many people who have axes to grind.

Well, just let people say what is on their minds. Maybe they can get it out of their system. Myself, I don't really care all that much.

HitsRus wrote: ^^^pretty standard stuff as the bishop who confirmed you. You obviouslyare not required to venerate or even keep the picture.

So many people who have axes to grind.

Standard to give a picture of yourself? Bishop Malone never did. I'm sure his predecessor didn't either. Malone gave a book and a cross. Have you ever listened to Tobin speak? Dude is all about himself.

He wasn't giving you a picture of himself the man but rather was giving you a picture of the Bishop inclusive of a prayer suggestion or offering.

There's a difference.

Con_Alma wrote: He wasn't giving you a picture of himself the man but rather was giving you a picture of the Bishop inclusive of a prayer suggestion or offering.

There's a difference.

Listen to him boast about all he's done in his past and you'll clearly see his offering of his picture clearly illustrates how highly he thinks of himself.

I can see how when combined with his oratories you might come to such a conclusion.

I can only comment on the picture offering by itself.

Con_Alma wrote: I can see how when combined with his oratories you might come to such a conclusion.

I can only comment on the picture offering by itself.

I'll agree. I just happened to read this thread and noticed it was Tobin and just shook my head and laughed.

I don't know him so I won't judge him. I'll leave it to you.

HitsRus wrote: ^^^such as?

We are talking about being denied the sacraments, which is about being in willful conflict with church teachings and in grievous sin.

I don't have a dog in this fight...but what I think Unique was getting at is this....

So you've suggested that, if someone acts in willful conflict against church teachings and in grievous sin, a priest is justified in refusing him the sacraments.

Unique provided examples of people, "in willful conflict against church teachings and in grievous sin" (many felonies are grounded in things that are considered sinful and what is sinful is often more restrictive than most secular laws and running a racket for 6 years is grounded in all kinds of biblical conflicts)

These people in willful conflict were not denied the sacrament whereas Kennedy was, who's political positions also directly conflict with the church.

The point is, that, on its face the actions Bishop Tobin took would seem to reveal him as a man of principal and a man to be admired.

But, some of the other evidence that Unique demonstrated, might suggest otherwise and that ultimately, Tobin isn't acting on principle but is really just being political, much like the rest of us and that this is all really much ado about nothing.

These people in willful conflict were not denied the sacrament whereas Kennedy was, who's political positions also directly conflict with the church.

How do you know who was and who wasn't asked to abstain from receiving the sacraments?

Do you know that these people did not repent, ask for forgiveness, and changed their ways?

In actuality, Tobin is following directives from the Vatican which has been pressuring American bishops to be more forceful in censuring (denying sacraments) to politicians that other Catholics that directly support and condone abortion rights. The church's stance is not ambiguous, well defined, and well known....and looking the other way is not an option especially for people in positions of responsibility. Enforcing Rome's directive, which is a bishop's rsponsibility to his church, is NOT a political move, as Rome is under no obligation to abide by the American idea of seperation of church and state. Rather politics becomes involved when bishops don't follow their Church's directive because of their support for certain politicans, and/or refuse to sanction politicians so as not to appear using religion to pressure politicians in their views.

It is wrong that Catholics should be sanctioned for committing abortions, and then give politicans who allow, support, or condone abortion a free pass.

Sorry boat shoes...all of us are sinners, but racketeering doesn't equate with murder. Communion is not denied a thief. Communion is not denied someone who is a liar. Stealing and being a liar are sins....but are not grievous sin. The Churches teaching on the sanctity of life is explicit and unambiguous. Willful violation is a grievous sin and that is well known and publicized among Catholics.

There is a reason why their has only been one catholic ever elected president in this country and even that was by the narrowist of margin's. People in this country by and large A. Dont give a rat's ass what the catholic church has to say and B. Don't trust the catholic church any farther than they can throw their local father.

The mere thought of the catholic church make's me want to vomit from disgust.

the KKK with its hatred of Catholicism won the support of a large part of the white protestant population of our nation, those attitudes obviously have lingered as can be seen on this thread.

Guess who's back, back again
Isa's back, tell a friend
Guess who's back, guess who's back,
guess who's back, guess who's back,
guess who's back, guess who's back,
guess who's back...

a pleasure to at least temporarily be in your presence

Hits,

It is not "old stuff". In fact, just this year a Pastor at a church in the Youngstown Diocese was put on leave because of an inappropriate relationship he had back in the mid 70's while at one of the parochial high schools in Youngstown.

So, priests are still being "outed" for indiscreciones they committed in the past. And, the fact what this particular priest did occurred 25-30 years ago does not mean it is "in the past". Especially considering up until 2009, this priest was working with children and teenagers, receiving and dispensing communion, and preaching to the laity about the evils of "sin", all the while hiding his inappropriate actions with a teenager from others.

Also, in my post where I have been accused of "bashing" the Catholic Church, I made clear to point out that I believe ALL organized religions have credibility issues when it comes to those in leadership roles. I did not single out just Roman Catholicism. And, while you may wish to say that most of what happened with priests and children is in the past, the reality is to this very day it is leading to people leaving the Catholic Church, and the financial settlements now being paid out for all the years of covering up the actions of these priests are causing strain on several diocese in the USA.

Fallout from abuse
Charges unlikely against priest who admitted assault on Mooney student in 1970s
June 10, 2009
http://www.vindy.com/news/2009/jun/10/fallout-abuse/

oh the search for perfect institutions.
large institutions with leaderships who rejected Christianity and organized belief in a supreme dieties

Adolph Hilter lead Nazi Germay
Soviet Union of Lenin and Stalin
China of Mao
Kampuchea of Pol Pot

hard to see those regimes through the stacks of dead bodies.